To be fair, he's almost completely right.
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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Finally got a game without a terrible throw post laning phase. 4/0/8 with my nocturne. I really do enjoy him as a jungler, still not as cool or good as lee sin though.
One thing I gotta say, I think my map awareness has been improving a lot recently. But meh, still need a lot more work if I wanna crack plat.
One thing I gotta say, I think my map awareness has been improving a lot recently. But meh, still need a lot more work if I wanna crack plat.
Alright, I'll keep that in mind. He does get naturally tanky so easily, it's not like noct where I gotta build it.
Gotta agree, so much too this game it's almost impossible to really have useful opinions except about select circumstances or very general rules without a ton of experience. Which I don't have.
D
Deleted member
Guest
me vs azen and yangfushang in ranked
ENTER THE HEAT OF BATTLE
ENTER THE HEAT OF BATTLE
Gonna watch this ****. Don't lose to Top Solo Only, plz.
D
Deleted member
Guest
GGGGGGGGGGGggggggggggggg
DFG Annie = in love <3 <3
Up against Anivia mid, burt her right through a level 11 Shen ult with nothing but my DFG and a Dorans.
Up against Anivia mid, burt her right through a level 11 Shen ult with nothing but my DFG and a Dorans.
Wall of text
however he takes a long time to get tanky... like he kinda has that midgame problem that mundo has. at 25 mins he's literally just a graves smokescreen and a fear, can't initiate can't do great damage
udyr/shyv/mundo all get tanky right away
the reason being tanky is so key is because junglers get limited farm.. and since they are all melee they HAVE to be tanky, can't be squishy if ur a melee champion or ur useless in fights or have to rely on teammates before you can clean up (reason why assassins have fallen out of competitive play)
so it takes a loooong time for junglers to get to an ideal build. late game nocturne is still an insane beast but that is hard to get to
but maokai literally never falls off his utility and cc continues for the entire game. free wards, super hard to kill in teamfights (aka never focus maokai), snare plus knockback/slow, and his OP ULT are incredible
first off his clear time is awful. like sadly slow, and if u build wriggles to speed him up ur basically an item down since lifesteal/atk dmg is so useless on him
second his strength is ganks... which will take him so long to even be able to gank since like they honestly aren't that great until u hit level 5 (rank 3 taunt). so many other junglers can gank at more times and do the same thing in the same situations. bypassing wards is cool but like.... ok say theres a river ward and ur ganking bot lane. you can run through it as udyr/skarn and probably still get to them in time even if they see you, like rammus can do it better but probably will get the same result. if the enemy bot lane does get back far enough then rammus will be near their turret while your bot lane is catching up... like really not that much better in practice
third he has insane mana problems, worse than any other common junlger in the game
idk man like he is great late game for sure but it's just so painful getting there
most people do HoG > giants belt > upgrade giants belt
that costs a lot of gold, and sometimes you just don't get the money to buy parts in one go
therefore u build like this:
hog
kindlegem
ruby crystal
(giants belt if you happen to get back to base with 1110 gold, but DO NOT UPGRADE IT)
then u will buy usually 2 of 3 items:
spirit visage / aegis / starks
these items will give you as much hp as a frozen mallet (warmogs is useless on mundo unless extremely fed early imo)
reason being is you are either bursted really hard, which makes u use ult and run away and live at very low hp, in which case you took the brunt of the enemy's damage and will throw cleavers from afar to try and be useful
or you are ignored and everyone else is killed leaving you for last
therefore u buy aura items, that still give that needed HP, but are useful since ur probably the last person to die
plus spirit visage / starks give u cdr, keeps ur Q closer to perma slow and E closer to 100% uptime
i think warmogs is useless cuz nobody will attack u if u build it, and u can only peel with Q which u have no CDR for.. and sunfire is only good early (magic dmg falls off) and u never want early sunfire lol.. so if you do upgrade giants belt get frozen mallet
skarner can do this too, almost jungler can provided the enemy takes a long path to red. if the enemy doesn't take a long path then udyr/shyv/mundo can't do it either
being able to always gank through lane is pretty strong i agree
however he takes a long time to get tanky... like he kinda has that midgame problem that mundo has. at 25 mins he's literally just a graves smokescreen and a fear, can't initiate can't do great damage
udyr/shyv/mundo all get tanky right away
the reason being tanky is so key is because junglers get limited farm.. and since they are all melee they HAVE to be tanky, can't be squishy if ur a melee champion or ur useless in fights or have to rely on teammates before you can clean up (reason why assassins have fallen out of competitive play)
so it takes a loooong time for junglers to get to an ideal build. late game nocturne is still an insane beast but that is hard to get to
true if he's up against a super fast jungler and he doesnt get blue he will have troubles. honestly i dont have problems keeping up in levels after getting a buff stolen as anybody unless it's udyr/shyv/olaf/mundo trying especially hard to keep me down (but usually they are taking the other 3 buffs and letting me keep up in levels)
but maokai literally never falls off his utility and cc continues for the entire game. free wards, super hard to kill in teamfights (aka never focus maokai), snare plus knockback/slow, and his OP ULT are incredible
yea kinda, but its amazing how i can buy at LEAST 7 pots a game as mundo, and yet on udyr i start boots 3 and sometimes only use 1 pot the whole game
the thing about rammus
first off his clear time is awful. like sadly slow, and if u build wriggles to speed him up ur basically an item down since lifesteal/atk dmg is so useless on him
second his strength is ganks... which will take him so long to even be able to gank since like they honestly aren't that great until u hit level 5 (rank 3 taunt). so many other junglers can gank at more times and do the same thing in the same situations. bypassing wards is cool but like.... ok say theres a river ward and ur ganking bot lane. you can run through it as udyr/skarn and probably still get to them in time even if they see you, like rammus can do it better but probably will get the same result. if the enemy bot lane does get back far enough then rammus will be near their turret while your bot lane is catching up... like really not that much better in practice
third he has insane mana problems, worse than any other common junlger in the game
idk man like he is great late game for sure but it's just so painful getting there
what mogwai said =P
so my theory on mundos builds
most people do HoG > giants belt > upgrade giants belt
that costs a lot of gold, and sometimes you just don't get the money to buy parts in one go
therefore u build like this:
hog
kindlegem
ruby crystal
(giants belt if you happen to get back to base with 1110 gold, but DO NOT UPGRADE IT)
then u will buy usually 2 of 3 items:
spirit visage / aegis / starks
these items will give you as much hp as a frozen mallet (warmogs is useless on mundo unless extremely fed early imo)
reason being is you are either bursted really hard, which makes u use ult and run away and live at very low hp, in which case you took the brunt of the enemy's damage and will throw cleavers from afar to try and be useful
or you are ignored and everyone else is killed leaving you for last
therefore u buy aura items, that still give that needed HP, but are useful since ur probably the last person to die
plus spirit visage / starks give u cdr, keeps ur Q closer to perma slow and E closer to 100% uptime
i think warmogs is useless cuz nobody will attack u if u build it, and u can only peel with Q which u have no CDR for.. and sunfire is only good early (magic dmg falls off) and u never want early sunfire lol.. so if you do upgrade giants belt get frozen mallet
I just did it because it was fun.
Lovage
Smash Hero
@ kira's bit about tankiness for melee heros
yep and THAT's why noct can be an undesirable pick in a lot of scenerios. if he can't survive the damage from the enemy bruiser and AD carry then he is a TOUGH pick to make.
yep and THAT's why noct can be an undesirable pick in a lot of scenerios. if he can't survive the damage from the enemy bruiser and AD carry then he is a TOUGH pick to make.
D
Deleted member
Guest
thoughts on varus?
everyone i bot lane with sucks bad but he might be OP just that everyone sucks
everyone i bot lane with sucks bad but he might be OP just that everyone sucks
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Nocturne is I think, one of the more teamcomp dependent junglers.
For example, I LOVE him with say, urgot bottom. That's just a match made in heaven. Having like a Janna, leona, alli, or taric just adds insult to injury.
I dunno, noct is more vulnerable midgame, so for different reasons I'd ask myself the same question I'd ask were I deciding whether to jungle udyr, "does my team have enough cc in lane to make this work?". If so, nocturne ftw! Lets make these lanes snowball hard. If not, a more reliable safer jungler is probably a better idea.
As far as moa being tied with shyv for best...
Meh, I think lee sin is a lot better because his ridiculous mobility and burst damage combined with an execute and aoe cc just gives him so much ganking utility, and it means that he doesn't have to commit all that much to a gank, he can just go right back to farming after stealing a flash. For similar reasons he's great for stealing buffs and bringing down nashor and dragon really REALLY fast.
He seems to fall off somewhat endgame relative to other junglers, but he's definitely my pick for top jungler.
Also, then there's mundo with his ridiculous cleartime of everything, % of hp cleavers ensuring that he doesn't need to build any damage to do a good amount of damage, and insane inbuilt tankyness. He's a super control jungler but also has cc, imo he's a better shyvanna.
Then there's udyr, who is imo, a lot stronger in arranged play then solo queue, but with good team coordination he's a ridiculous ganker in that he does so much burst damage and has great tools to pursue. Yes he needs cc in lane to make it in reliably, but if he makes it in, that's a kill. This also allows for low commitment ganks where you know they'll escape if they use a summmoner so you just force it out and leave. He's one of the best jungle duelists too and also has amazing cleartime which makes him a great choice for counter-jungling.
Honestly right now, I'd put it lee sin>mundo>Udyr for strongest jungler picks. There's a fair number of other good choices that I'd pick up if I needed something specific (noct, amumu, moa, trundle, jarvan, skarner, allistar, cho, shyv, etc) depending on team comp and what the enemy team had, but given a blank slate, in a competitive game I'd probably want one of those 3. Given udyr of course, I'll just tell my team "everyone needs hard cc in lane, otherwise you can't expect useful ganking".
For example, I LOVE him with say, urgot bottom. That's just a match made in heaven. Having like a Janna, leona, alli, or taric just adds insult to injury.
I dunno, noct is more vulnerable midgame, so for different reasons I'd ask myself the same question I'd ask were I deciding whether to jungle udyr, "does my team have enough cc in lane to make this work?". If so, nocturne ftw! Lets make these lanes snowball hard. If not, a more reliable safer jungler is probably a better idea.
As far as moa being tied with shyv for best...
Meh, I think lee sin is a lot better because his ridiculous mobility and burst damage combined with an execute and aoe cc just gives him so much ganking utility, and it means that he doesn't have to commit all that much to a gank, he can just go right back to farming after stealing a flash. For similar reasons he's great for stealing buffs and bringing down nashor and dragon really REALLY fast.
He seems to fall off somewhat endgame relative to other junglers, but he's definitely my pick for top jungler.
Also, then there's mundo with his ridiculous cleartime of everything, % of hp cleavers ensuring that he doesn't need to build any damage to do a good amount of damage, and insane inbuilt tankyness. He's a super control jungler but also has cc, imo he's a better shyvanna.
Then there's udyr, who is imo, a lot stronger in arranged play then solo queue, but with good team coordination he's a ridiculous ganker in that he does so much burst damage and has great tools to pursue. Yes he needs cc in lane to make it in reliably, but if he makes it in, that's a kill. This also allows for low commitment ganks where you know they'll escape if they use a summmoner so you just force it out and leave. He's one of the best jungle duelists too and also has amazing cleartime which makes him a great choice for counter-jungling.
Honestly right now, I'd put it lee sin>mundo>Udyr for strongest jungler picks. There's a fair number of other good choices that I'd pick up if I needed something specific (noct, amumu, moa, trundle, jarvan, skarner, allistar, cho, shyv, etc) depending on team comp and what the enemy team had, but given a blank slate, in a competitive game I'd probably want one of those 3. Given udyr of course, I'll just tell my team "everyone needs hard cc in lane, otherwise you can't expect useful ganking".
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
imo, Varus is actually really well balanced. The only reason select people are doing SO well with him is the lack of experience against him as hes brand new. Once people figure him out, he'll still be good, no doubt, but imo he wont be the next Vayne, Kog, Graves, etc and will just be a solid AD carry pick sitting around High/Mid tier in an AD carry list.
Lovage
Smash Hero
varus needs linemen or else he sucks. gotta team build around him similar to kogmaw/ashe cept he doesnt provide the same damage/utility
not sure where he is atm HES FUN THO =]
not sure where he is atm HES FUN THO =]
D
Deleted member
Guest
laning with a GOOD varus who hits q's i think he is really good
Lovage
Smash Hero
yea honestly i can't decide between maxing Q or W. with W you NEED good atk speed or it just isn't worth it. it's really hard to proc 2-3 blight stacks on a target more than once or twice per fight when you're getting focused. and you're ALWAYS getting focused because you're as squishy as caitlyn but you have no escapes.
his snare is a pretty bad escape because it's best used at a blight-detonater at the start of a fight, use it early on key targets that are already blighted a few times for big dmg. the same thing as using amumus ult to escape, u really don't wan to have to.
he is meant to be played with big linemen like naut, ali, malph, maokai ETC.
his snare is a pretty bad escape because it's best used at a blight-detonater at the start of a fight, use it early on key targets that are already blighted a few times for big dmg. the same thing as using amumus ult to escape, u really don't wan to have to.
he is meant to be played with big linemen like naut, ali, malph, maokai ETC.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Like, imo for AD carry, id say this is how they stack up (btw, im only counting champs that when you go onto LoL are classed as Ranged and Carry, so I realize champs like Urgot wont be listed, but whatever)
Kog'Maw
Vayne
Corki
Graves
Ashe
Varus
Caitlyn
Tristana
Ezreal
Miss Fortune
Sivir
Twitch
Kog'Maw
Vayne
Corki
Graves
Ashe
Varus
Caitlyn
Tristana
Ezreal
Miss Fortune
Sivir
Twitch
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
MF is not that bad...
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Meh, imo her and Ez are close, but i personally think Trist/Cait are better.
Niko45
Smash Master
I agree with top 5 100% don't know enough about the rest
Boofy!
Smash Champion
I think cait is worse than that.
Why is Twitch so bad? I always thought the massive range on his ult, plus the fact that (I think?) he does a lot of damage makes him good? I realize the stealth thing is just a crappy gimmick against competent teams, but I thought he was decent even without stealth? I haven't played him though so I don't know.
edit: Hail of Arrows is sooooooooo much better than Make it Rain wtf...
edit: Hail of Arrows is sooooooooo much better than Make it Rain wtf...
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I dont think he's bad, but tbh, neither is anyone else in the list lol.
Lovage
Smash Hero
caits way worse than that dude lol
Also no Urgot on that list.
Jem.
Smash Master
I think Varus is really good
Nietonsoh thinks he's OP (Since he's an AD carry main)
I agree with Lovage though, it feels like your team matters more. I feel like with Graves I can work with any team comp and derp farm or whatever, but with Varus everything needs to be precise? Haha.
His ult is nasty though. I saw Nietonsoh and westrice playing, and westrice would annie ult into varus ult and all 5 were snared for eternity basically and they Lolstomped those fights. Champs like Kennen/Cassio would work really well into a Varus team
Nietonsoh thinks he's OP (Since he's an AD carry main)
I agree with Lovage though, it feels like your team matters more. I feel like with Graves I can work with any team comp and derp farm or whatever, but with Varus everything needs to be precise? Haha.
His ult is nasty though. I saw Nietonsoh and westrice playing, and westrice would annie ult into varus ult and all 5 were snared for eternity basically and they Lolstomped those fights. Champs like Kennen/Cassio would work really well into a Varus team
Lovage
Smash Hero
yep definitely an amazing CC and damaging ult, he really really needs time to set it up though with some blight stacks before he gets real damage on a single target. so yea, the more CC on ur team the better chance varus' ult will be effective as hell
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 11,870
http://www.reignofgaming.net/redtracker/topic/64944-why-you-dont-pick-haunting-guise
According to a bunch of Riot guys, apparently Haunting Guise is a great late-game item? Or something? I don't into maths.
According to a bunch of Riot guys, apparently Haunting Guise is a great late-game item? Or something? I don't into maths.
dont know anything about him pertaining to solo q
in 5s nautilus is comparable to maokai
btw in 5s my entire list changes completely, i think warmogs mundo is good in 5s but not in solo q at all
Ussi
Smash Legend
Varus is basically your AD carry AoE comp
Welp, time to try it some more when I play AP.
Frolossus
Smash Lord
their argument really doesn't make any sense to me tbh
No one invades low elo solo so he's got no problems there. His cc makes even the dumbest solo able to gank. Later he has super fast clears and can build to any situation.
john!
Smash Hero
why would you get phantom dancer over ghostblade on mundo?