Except for Ganondorf.
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Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ
- Thread starter saviorslegacy
- Start date
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
even.....Zelda?
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Zelda is a better character than Link, and if you main Link... I see no issue in seconding Ganondorf.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
iirc isn't link above Zelda according to this newest iteration of the tier list?
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Zelda can turn into Sheik.
BryE
Smash Journeyman
But Zelda and Sheik are two completely different characters. I can't just learn how to play one character and instinctively know how to play with the other one. I have to learn each character individually along with their matchups, strengths, and weaknesses.
Also, none of that "Shelda/Zeik" crap. I already think it's stupid enough that they even have three spots on the tier list for two seperate characters. I know Zelda and Sheik are "technically" one character, but they never had that sort of thing in Melee so I have no idea why Shelda/Zeik was added in Brawl tier list. lol
It's because Zelda was absolutely worthless by comparison in Melee. Her kill power was completely redundant in the face of Sheik's decently powerful aerials and her superior edgeguarding ability. If you intentionally transformed in Melee, it was to make fun of the opponent.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
It's really useful in the Pikachu MU,
I love this particular tier list.
24 25 26
I love this particular tier list.
24
25 26
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
^This.
The only time I've ever seen a remotely practical application to transform in Melee is if you know you don't have enough distance to recover with vanish and want at least some chance at recovering w/ Zelda lol. Even then, it usually doesn't work.
my melee zelda is sexy~
LK is BROKE in that game.
Melee did Zelda/Sheik wrong; brawl does it a little better. Both characters have point where they clearly excel and others where they are lacking this time around. it IS beneficial to understand both characters because that zelda option can be an extremely powerful one.
while they are two different move sets it can become like ignoring a move because you don't see it as viable.
"Links arrows are bad, there is never a situation where I'd use it over the boomerang" This logic is very flawed and limiting.
I think in the next game they should make the transformation time shorter then you'd see a lot more people rocking out both characters irregardless of which one is "better"
LK is BROKE in that game.
Melee did Zelda/Sheik wrong; brawl does it a little better. Both characters have point where they clearly excel and others where they are lacking this time around. it IS beneficial to understand both characters because that zelda option can be an extremely powerful one.
while they are two different move sets it can become like ignoring a move because you don't see it as viable.
"Links arrows are bad, there is never a situation where I'd use it over the boomerang" This logic is very flawed and limiting.
I think in the next game they should make the transformation time shorter then you'd see a lot more people rocking out both characters irregardless of which one is "better"
You can make transformation time shorter by playing Brawl from a USB drive, lol.
lol
yeah I love hacked Wii's
But thats one of the issues at bigger tournaments there are Wiis where it takes extremely long to transform because the wii takes longer to read the disk.
yeah I love hacked Wii's
But thats one of the issues at bigger tournaments there are Wiis where it takes extremely long to transform because the wii takes longer to read the disk.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Sheik's chain hits every frame 2, so it's possible to get 30 chain hits in per second(not counting the time it takes to pull it out), it's just insanely difficult. Also it will all count as fresh because it only gets added to the decay chain once it ends(either get knocked out of it, or retract it yourself).
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
yea my personal HRC record was done the same way although that looks like it was done in frame advance.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
what motion do you have to use to do that type of chain judo?
7 8 9
4 5 6
1 2 3
Alternate between 2 and 3 really quickly. Or 3 and 6.
4 5 6
1 2 3
Alternate between 2 and 3 really quickly. Or 3 and 6.
lil cj
Smash Lord
Ive been using Sheik for a while now (also used in Melee) and have been kicking a** lately on wifi (for practice) I would like to start using Sheik in tournaments and get to the next level, but Ive noticed there arent any in depth Sheik guides. So I just have a few questions about Sheik Im curious about:
What are her weaknesses?
What are her worst MUs?
Why is she so low on the tier list (She seems really good...upper mid tier to high tier material imo)
Is DACUS really important to use and is there a way to use it without any custom settings?
Are there any other top level players to watch and learn from? (Ive been watching Judo, Ankoku, Izaw, and Earth...all amazing)
Should Zelda be used at all? (I use Zelda alot...I know how to use her)
Last question...what character covers all of Sheik weakness?
Thanks in advance
What are her weaknesses?
What are her worst MUs?
Why is she so low on the tier list (She seems really good...upper mid tier to high tier material imo)
Is DACUS really important to use and is there a way to use it without any custom settings?
Are there any other top level players to watch and learn from? (Ive been watching Judo, Ankoku, Izaw, and Earth...all amazing)
Should Zelda be used at all? (I use Zelda alot...I know how to use her)
Last question...what character covers all of Sheik weakness?
Thanks in advance
Weaknesses: She's incredibly light. Lighter than Marth, lighter than Peach, even slightly lighter than Zelda. She's also not the greatest in momentum canceling. This makes her really easy to kill with strong attacks, so it's important to avoid getting hit. Sheik also falls fast, making her vulnerable to abusive combos like Falco's chaingrab, Fox's utilt, Sheik's own ftilt, Squirtle's utilt, Kirby's utilt, and so on.
Worst Match-Ups: Pikachu and Ice Climbers.
Tier Placement: How many Sheik players do you see out there destroying tournaments? We're exactly where we belong unless someone (consistently) proves otherwise.
DACUS: It's pretty fast, and essential to certain match-ups (like Meta Knight and Pikachu), but not the first thing you'll want to focus on. You can DACUS with C-Stick and the A button, which involves putting your hand in form that can hit both the C-Down and A in quick succession (usually thumb on C-stick and index on A).
Top Players: Judo, Scary, Earth, and Cross are the best (proven) Sheik players currently. Tutu, <3, and Izaw are all also good watch from. Don't use me, I play inefficiently lol.
Zelda: Yes, but not in all match-ups.
Characters: Marth, Peach, Wario, or Diddy Kong are all decent alternates. Alternatively, you can run Sheik as a pocket counter, since she's quite good at that too.
Worst Match-Ups: Pikachu and Ice Climbers.
Tier Placement: How many Sheik players do you see out there destroying tournaments? We're exactly where we belong unless someone (consistently) proves otherwise.
DACUS: It's pretty fast, and essential to certain match-ups (like Meta Knight and Pikachu), but not the first thing you'll want to focus on. You can DACUS with C-Stick and the A button, which involves putting your hand in form that can hit both the C-Down and A in quick succession (usually thumb on C-stick and index on A).
Top Players: Judo, Scary, Earth, and Cross are the best (proven) Sheik players currently. Tutu, <3, and Izaw are all also good watch from. Don't use me, I play inefficiently lol.
Zelda: Yes, but not in all match-ups.
Characters: Marth, Peach, Wario, or Diddy Kong are all decent alternates. Alternatively, you can run Sheik as a pocket counter, since she's quite good at that too.
How many tournaments have you gone to and played Sheik in, again? Maybe when you have more vids.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
1: I'd add Biggad to that list, I think he's probably the best EU Sheik I've seen (although really MU intensive), daiki is also decent to watch (esp. for the Olimar MU)
2: I personally think Lucario is good as a Sheik secondary as well as those others, he beats Pika, arguably beats/goes even w/ ICs (plus almost no ICs know how to CG him efficiently, which is stupid because it's really easy if they weren't so hell-bent on doing only bthrow -> dthrow lol), is pretty even against Marth, and beats Kirby (basically all of Sheik's hardest MUs). He's also extremely accessible if you're a smart player, not a lot of precision or tech skill needed for him besides B-reversals/ASC and FP shenanigans.
lil cj
Smash Lord
Thank you so much!
I really appreciate it
Lucario...interesting
Ripple your awesome dude!2
siis and a local.
17th and 3rd
Saw your most recent vids against Reflex's Pokemon Trainer and MJG's Toon Link.
Good stuff!
Why do I not use the chain more?
DACUS is amazing, but it's very difficult to use because of how spacy you need to be. You can't just DACUS and think it'll hit, because it doesn't work that way.
DACUS out of grab releases are awesome though.
First thing to learn (I assume you've done so) is the ftilt lock, since that alone ***** certain characters so hard.
As for Zelda, I'd suggest only using her to KO.
Sheik doesn't have a killing problem if you manage your Ftilt perfectly, but matches don't work that way unfortunately.
/my2cents
Because that's how the physics of the game works?
I tried my best? ;_____;
The game has a weird physics engine when it comes to the chain.
I guess it's because it's so limp.
The game has a weird physics engine when it comes to the chain.
I guess it's because it's so limp.
eveningninja
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2011
- Messages
- 99
As for F-Tilt lock, do I keep the control stick pressed to the side the whole time while pressing A or do I release the stick back to center between each press of A?
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
It depends on how fast you can press A.
i just hold cause im lazy, works just fine for me, but i believe that to super correct way to do it is to reset the control stick back to the center
i just hold cause im lazy, works just fine for me, but i believe that to super correct way to do it is to reset the control stick back to the center
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
After awhile, you'll want to not have it all the way held, because if they DI inwards, you'll want to catch them back by reversing the ftilt, so at a certain point it's a good idea to hold it slightly away from neutral to continue the tilt.
eveningninja
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2011
- Messages
- 99
Well, if I'm holding the control stick, I'm always only holding it slightly away from neutral, but I'm talking about actually releasing the joystick and letting it return to neutral and then tapping it back out again, over and over, for every corresponding tap of the A button. Should I do that or just hold it out? I don't really know the "correct" protocol.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
Well the big issue is i can see you accidentally fsmashing all the time cause repeatedly ftilting that quickly would be hard without inputting a smash.
eveningninja
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2011
- Messages
- 99
I see, that makes sense. I was kind of having that problem when I was trying it.
Also, should one simply press A once for each FTilt and not try to press it really fast (thereby causing some of the presses of A to not even do anything)?
Also, should one simply press A once for each FTilt and not try to press it really fast (thereby causing some of the presses of A to not even do anything)?
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Can anyone remind me how the move decay list works? Like, if I fully stale my filt, then hit with fair, then hit with ftilt another time, will ftilt become fully stale again?
no but it may as well be. I don't know the exact numbers...
but lets say the list looks like this
10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 -1
for where ever a move is on the list you subtract that value. so even if you added one move second on the stack, you still have the 10, 8, 7 ,6, etc. effecting your ftilt. while it isn't fully decayed its still pretty close...
but lets say the list looks like this
10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 -1
for where ever a move is on the list you subtract that value. so even if you added one move second on the stack, you still have the 10, 8, 7 ,6, etc. effecting your ftilt. while it isn't fully decayed its still pretty close...
BryE
Smash Journeyman
Hey guys. I just have a small question.
Do you guys have a Sheik matchup chart somewhere? I have been looking around for one in the Sheik boards but I haven't found one. lol
Do you guys have a Sheik matchup chart somewhere? I have been looking around for one in the Sheik boards but I haven't found one. lol
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
There's no need for one, since Sheik has 100-0 Mus with the entire cast except marth because hes broken and wins 70.
Also you can just use the main MU chart that's somewhere in the tactical discussion I believe.
Also you can just use the main MU chart that's somewhere in the tactical discussion I believe.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Do we have ledgesnap/ledge data somewhere here? Also, is there data for chain snap? I'm trying to figure out how to maximize on low-risk edgeguarding, after noticing I could get an occasional invincible bair off the edge even when I tethered, when iirc you have less invincibility to work with when you tether (even once you've snapped to the ledge). Then again, I haven't really looked at tether data much lol