Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[.AC.]

are there any rules on pausing in between transformations?

 

[thexsunrosered]

are there any rules on pausing in between transformations?

lol rules like what

 

[.AC.]

if you pause a small time while tranforming,it eliminates transition time,this can prevent getting punished or help you recover in situations in which normally you wouldnt be able to. are there any rules regarding this?

 

[Zankoku]

Intentionally pausing in the middle of a tournament game is not allowed to begin with. Most TOs would be lenient to let you off with a warning on first offense, but it is entirely possible for you to get DQ'd.

 

[thexsunrosered]

if you pause a small time while tranforming,it eliminates transition time,this can prevent getting punished or help you recover in situations in which normally you wouldnt be able to. are there any rules regarding this?

well transforming actually has to do with your disc loading information. Like say if you go to transform, and right when you start the transformation you pause the game for a sec, when you unpause it you should turn into zelda right away because the data loaded. As for not getting punished, you should try to transform after you knock your opponent of stage, or you can use the Transform jump after you take a hit, which is when you jump and down-b at the same time after hitstun to make you shoot up higher than normal and transform (usually) safely. Then it's just a matter of getting back on stage. I hope thats what you were looking for

Oh, I just realized that that's not what you were looking for.. xD well it's useful anyway lol

 

[.AC.]

@ ankoku well i guess you are right,might change from tourney to tourney though,might get away with it but its not reliable =(

@ thexsunrosered: i wasnt looking for that but it helped alot anyway.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Meh, here is some useful info:

What attacks slide and how to get the to slide:

#1 You can slide d-tilt by duck dashing. This is most effective at YI.

#2 You can shield dash and slide out of that (no duh).

#3 You can walk forward and hold the analog at 2 or 10 o'clock. Then hit c-stick up early in your walk frame.
You should perform a sliding u-tilt.

#4 A walking DSmash slides.

#5 Hyphen Smash slides quite far.

#6 DACUS is Jesus.

#7 If you jump cancel Vanish right when you dash you get an awesome slide.

#8 d-tilt, u-tilt, DSmash and grab all slide out of a Boost Walk.


Most are obvious but I doubt everyone knew all of those.
Ankoku, please don't ***** about this. We all already know how cool you are and how you are incredibly smart.

 

[rathy Aro]

i thought it was an interesting list. I admitedly didn't know all of those and i'll have to try sliding utilt. I'm proud of you for not making a thread for it. =P

 

[saviorslegacy]

i thought it was an interesting list. I admitedly didn't know all of those and i'll have to try sliding utilt. I'm proud of you for not making a thread for it. =P

Why would I make a thread for it? I have already preached all of it on other threads and in this one. I'm just trying to get more Sheiks to take notice of it.

ps If you wanna see how good D-Throw really is watch it true combo into a Uair and kill a MK at 115 percent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flcyvEvP_Sw
Also other extra's.

I will continue to make the guides and show a lot of obvious information (for n00bs), reveal more mostly unknown information and some unknown things. In other words this will be a guide that even the top pro's can learn something from.

 

[Judo777]

make sure u clarify that it combos at low percents but not at 115 to kill mk cause it doesnt true combo to a kill. It can work alot and the best thing is it forces a reaction which u can bait and punish but dont expect to be straight landing the kill very often cause everyone will expect it.

 

[saviorslegacy]

make sure u clarify that it combos at low percents but not at 115 to kill mk cause it doesnt true combo to a kill. It can work alot and the best thing is it forces a reaction which u can bait and punish but dont expect to be straight landing the kill very often cause everyone will expect it.

It registers as a true combo. The only thing that mess's it up is DI.

Last night Xyro and I were doing some tests on wi-fi and one of the things we tested was this. At lower percents I could Uair him before Nair or Screw Attack. After maybe 30ish% he was able to DI out and attack me before I could hit him.
He barely got the stuff out before I hit him though.

Basically the timing is so tight it's not even funny.

 

[<π]

samus is slow as butt though... should went with a charatcer that can quickly produce a hit box below themself. you also should tried air dodging.

And as you noticed DI ***** dthrow. I've never really tested staling the throw; but yeah you can't true combo after it matters. dthrow uair may become my new staple at low percents to get damage up faster though if I was wrong about that however.

 

[Judo777]

If it can be DIed out of then its not a true combo i didnt think and also the training mode combo data is not right they say alot of things are combos that arent.

 

[stealth3654]

In tournament play, everyone is going to DI the down throw.

 

[ddonaldo]

basically just repeating what everyone has said but d-throw doesnt true combo into anything. not even uair, regardless of %. pretty close thou

 

[Tristan_win]

basically just repeating what everyone has said but d-throw doesnt true combo into anything. not even uair, regardless of %. pretty close thou

How can you even say that without proper testing?

I've connect plently of uair from a dthrow starting at like 0%. Unless I see some clear fact that it is indeed DI escape able even at like 0% against sheik (I don't know the worst but we have horrible horizontal aerial speed.) then we can't say things like it wont work ever, ESPECIALLY to new players who don't know any better and will just take our word as law.

edit: I would also like to bring to everyone attention that at one point in the video it shows that sheik Utilt true combing into the 2nd part.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If it can be DIed out of then its not a true combo i didnt think and also the training mode combo data is not right they say alot of things are combos that arent.

*DI only mess's this up at high percents.

ps I performed that D-Throw> Uair> u-tilt> grab> pummel> D-Throw> Uair (and then) Uair again on someone today. He escaped it twice though. I performed it maybe 3 times so the odd are good.

More evolution of this can be something like: D-Throw> Uair> u-tilt> Boost Walk (it is faster)> f-tilt
It is escapable but worth mentioning because it is a 0> f-tilt lock percents> f-tilt lock combo.string.

Yaaaaaaay, my first combo that is Gonzo worthy. I must perfect it!
(To bad people are gonna steal it and it wont be named after me for showing it at a tourney..... instead it will most likely become the Light combo) -.-

In tournament play, everyone is going to DI the down throw.

It doesn't matter if it is a tourney everyone does this anyways.

new players take our word as law.

Yeah found that out.....
I get a lot of Saltus questions from n00bs (if you can count around 0 people asking me a lot).

 

[ddonaldo]

well ive played against quite a few ppl and seen that it is usually possible for an opponent to airdodge or ?-air out of the incoming u-air
but yes i stand corrected that I haven't confirmed that dthrow>utilt doesnt work on every character. will test myself when I have access to my wii again, but im pretty sure the DI>AD is always possible

 

[Judo777]

In our defense there is no way for a video to show that something is a true combo we can't see if you are trying to escape and as i said the consecutive hit counter in training isnt legit. I'm not saying that it wasn't but u can't expect us to see that it is we would have to base it off of experience. I know at higher percents dthrow to uair can definitely be escaped because people escape it all the time. I'm pretty sure it does combo at very low percents but im not positive cause idk if when i do it my opponent just didn't do the right thing.

Also im not trying to be negative im just generally not a big fan of listing long strings of moves unless they are legit or a very harsh frame trap because against the right opponent i can pull off any string of moves so i don't see a reason to practice long strings that can be escaped unless it is extremely hard to escape.

 

[Zankoku]

In our defense there is no way for a video to show that something is a true combo we can't see if you are trying to escape and as i said the consecutive hit counter in training isnt legit.

It can be shown through frame-by-frame testing. If it's really a big deal in knowing whether or not dthrow uair is a true combo (for, what, 19 damage, doesn't work past like 30%?), then I'll go and test it sometime.

 

[thexsunrosered]

I haven't confirmed that dthrow>utilt doesnt work on every character. will test myself when I have access to my wii again, but im pretty sure the DI>AD is always possible

Learn to bait airdodges at low percents and combo into a utilt>ftilt combo, especially after a down throw. After that though, somewhere around 30%, it's pretty useless

 

[stealth3654]

Can't the opponent decide on which way to DI (left or right side)? That way, you would have to predict or react fast enough to wich side they will DI towards.

 

[ddonaldo]

Learn to bait airdodges at low percents and combo into a utilt>ftilt combo, especially after a down throw. After that though, somewhere around 30%, it's pretty useless

I know about baiting the airdodge but that still doesnt get around the matter of dthrow actually being a legit combo.
And yes I know im being a bit picky considering this is brawl, but its better than thinking you are completely safe only to find out otherwise in a serious match

 

[thexsunrosered]

I know about baiting the airdodge but that still doesnt get around the matter of dthrow actually being a legit combo.
And yes I know im being a bit picky considering this is brawl, but its better than thinking you are completely safe only to find out otherwise in a serious match

well I just meant that a majority of the time people will airdodge after a dthrow expecting a fair. That's when you wait and catch them with an uptilt. That's all I'm sayin

 

[saviorslegacy]

It can be shown through frame-by-frame testing. If it's really a big deal in knowing whether or not dthrow uair is a true combo (for, what, 19 damage, doesn't work past like 30%?), then I'll go and test it sometime.

If you would this would be great. Test it up to where it no longer combo's or to where you can honestly see that they will DI no matter what.

Learn to bait airdodges at low percents and combo into a utilt>ftilt combo, especially after a down throw. After that though, somewhere around 30%, it's pretty useless

Oh yes, I forgot that if they air dodge they screwed themselves.

well I just meant that a majority of the time people will airdodge after a dthrow expecting a fair. That's when you wait and catch them with an uptilt. That's all I'm sayin

lol, I prefer something a little more damaging and legit.
Weak Bair> Bair> dash grab/Needle's/DACUS/DA
I usually go for the grab and try to repeat.
Sheik has a really good grab game. Her mechanics support a character than can pressure them like hell and then punish almost anything they do.

 

[<π]

just got some beastly videos... my camera my was horrible through...

 

[stealth3654]

Sweet! I got some vids from Halloween Bash that I'm waiting to get uploaded, too.

 

[<π]

camera man*

Uair gets punished at low percents dthrow uair is looking less and less hip. FTHROW FO LIFE!

 

[Zankoku]

I actually prefer dthrow at mid percents to get a better read on their DI, which lets me pick bthrow/fthrow more effectively.

Also, uthrow at high percents is cool because it makes an air-dodge very punishable (uthrow is the least DI-able throw, and if you air-dodge then you can't adjust your aerial movement during the air-dodge) and has pretty much the best setup for followups (least distance, least horizontal send). At high %'s, the drawback of no frame advantage is irrelevant, and the drawback of lowest damage is really not that important.

 

[ddonaldo]

looking forward to the vids, havent seen any vids/recent vids from <3 and stealth.
<3 did you confirm dthrow to utilt to not be a true combo

 

[saviorslegacy]

looking forward to the vids, havent seen any vids/recent vids from <3 and stealth.
<3 did you confirm dthrow to utilt to not be a true combo

I can
*u-tilt does not combo

 

[ddonaldo]

I can
*u-tilt does not combo

lol my bad, you know what I meant
d-throw>u-air

 

[thexsunrosered]

lol my bad, you know what I meant
d-throw>u-air

It doesn't true combo, but it is a reliable option, at least at 0-5ish percent.

 

[<π]

I have a bunch of vids verus virg's DK and Fox, most of them can't be used because the camera fell over or random stuff like that, lol. But I salvaged a few. I'll post them up tomorrow before/while at work..

 

[Judo777]

Hey in ankokus third match vs vayseth's rob there is a really cool thing that happens with the needles at 4:44 someone actually commented on it and idk if its known but he throws his needles and gets hit at the same time so the needles fly up in the air and disappear in a vertical pillar. thought that was interesting.

 

[Matador]

Serious question...

I was wondering, since most of the community still believes Sheik still cannot KO for beans...is stale Ftilt -> Usmash NOT a true combo? If not, what decides whether or not an opponent can escape? If they DO escape, do they just get out of the sweetspot, or the entire attack?

Is it unreliable? Do many Sheiks just....not use this setup for kills?

 

[rathy Aro]

It is a true combo. Its just hard to figure out when it is mid match since you have to consider the character you're playing against, how decayed your ftilt is, and what damage your opponent is at.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I believe she can kill pretty well......

 

[<π]

(their DI affects ftilt->usmash too)

sheik has a hard time killing. ftilt usmash isn't always an option. and even when it is a lot of the time you can't wait for them to let you ftilt you know?

unsweet usmash
dsmash
SSbair
nair
uair
jab->dsmash
jab->nair

all viable kill options when fresh it just starts around 160-200 :/
as upposed to 100 like with most characters.

foutunately ftilt usmash has a huge window on D3 and snake
grab release on MK and Wario

 

[Judo777]

yea GR>DACUS and warios hyphen smash are great when u get the chance and can land it.

The other problem with ftilt upsmash is ur ftilt has to be a certain lvl of decay which means you have to ftilt them ahead of time which in a sense forces u to play a certain way. Also ftilt upsmash has a large window on D3 and snake but according to tristan's data we never have a guarenteed combo into a kill because they can survive at the percents it combos.