Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[saviorslegacy]

I'll experiment with it.

Oh and this morning I got kill percents for dsmash at FD's edge. I'm going to collect Nair kill percents there too then post em.

Also get the tip of FSmash (her foot on the last hit) kill percents.

 

[ddonaldo]

vanish catching is awesome and all and im sure you are all aware of this, but the lag from sheik's vanish is = or in most cases greater than the hitstun (time the opponent is unable to move).
So while the vanish catch has the suprise factor going for it, there may be a time where the opponent learns this and responds accordingly meaning we will get punished for vanish catching instead of just going for the vanish.

(But then on the other hand I guess we could always mix it up, idk, im just rambling again to get my post count up)

 

[saviorslegacy]

vanish catching is awesome and all and im sure you are all aware of this, but the lag from sheik's vanish is = or in most cases greater than the hitstun (time the opponent is unable to move).
So while the vanish catch has the suprise factor going for it, there may be a time where the opponent learns this and responds accordingly meaning we will get punished for vanish catching instead of just going for the vanish.

(But then on the other hand I guess we could always mix it up, idk, im just rambling again to get my post count up)

Welllll... I totally agree and disagree at the same time.
You are perfectly right, but here are some things that make this legit:

#1 If they are a fast faller.
#2 If they are a big character.
#3 It depends on where you catch with the Vanish. I have been able to catch with them past Sheik, not before her. My point is that they can be caught every where. So that means that you can catch them and put them onto the ground almost immediatly.
#4 Over all hit stun makes this legit. In other words, it works at higher percents. That means that this should work on every character at a certain percent.

 

[Tristan_win]

Here's a stupid idea but can be arguably good to do if you got away with it.

As everyone knows pika can chain grab sheik until 90% with their new chain grab, however what some of you don't know is that it can only happen if pika start it in the low %'s. I think it's something like 10, 15%.

Now the idea I got which I still think is stupid but I think it's a very good log to throw onto the fire to cause debate is why not put a handcap on sheik so she would start the match with 10%? Even if the touny does not allow this by just asking for the ok from your opponent it can be allowed so for those less knowledgeable pikas they won’t be able to chain grab **** us anymore.

Thoughts?

 

[Judo777]

Tristan that's some pretty outside the box thinking and we have already considered ideas like intentionally taking damage and even chain camping to force him to dmg us but i asked kprime and he said the chain grab percents dont end until 50% or so which is pretty steep.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea Fenrir mentioned this from the Fox boards since Fox has to put up with so much gay things. I think it should be allowed......if I want to start with more percentage than I should be allowed to. There is absolutely NO reason why you should not be allowed to do this if you want to.

 

[ddonaldo]

Even links would want this I think although they can do this themselves with bombs.

 

[codeman0624]

So I swear this is a legitimate question/observation, not just a plug for my video! But the f-air on Link at 2:46 caught my attention when I watched it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLNzyG9kpis

There it's a fast-fall into a f-air. The move seems to have more knock back than it should at the percentage that Link is at. How much influence does Sheik's momentum have on the knock back of her aerials? Or am I seeing something that's not really there?

 

[ddonaldo]

I didnt really notice anything peculiar. I'm assuming the f-air might have been fresh

 

[-Mars-]

Yea I didnt either and even so your opponent may have just DI'ed away.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I diagree.. Fair shouldn't send him far away like that.

Instead at 70ish% it should be like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn5tuTxpwIY
(Link is heavier than Mario though)

Maybe he SDI'd into the pit by mistake?

 

[ddonaldo]

I diagree.. Fair shouldn't send him far away like that.

Instead at 70ish% it should be like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn5tuTxpwIY
(Link is heavier than Mario though)

Maybe he SDI'd into the pit by mistake?

lol video plug
j/k but in that vid that f-air would have been so stale, link is heavier than mario (like you said) and opponents DI may have played a part like marsulas said

 

[codeman0624]

His DI is a good point, I didn't think of that. But I think the main question still stands...has anyone tested whether there's a correlation between Sheik's momentum and the knock back of her aerials? Would a fast fall f-air be more effective, even if the opponent had proper DI?

 

[ddonaldo]

I havent tested myself, but there is no reason why fast falling should increase knockback tbh

 

[codeman0624]

I havent tested myself, but there is no reason why fast falling should increase knockback tbh

Yeah, I figured as much too. But wouldn't it be neat if it were true? I'm going to test is just to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yeah, I figured as much too. But wouldn't it be neat if it were true? I'm going to test is just to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else.

Then test it, it's not hard to test knock back. <,<

ps I have a hunch that FF> Fair does increase knock back

 

[codeman0624]

Then test it, it's not hard to test knock back. <,<

ps I have a hunch that FF> Fair does increase knock back

Well I just wasn't sure if it had been tested yet or not. I actually don't know how to do any conclusive/quantitative tests, all I know how to do is "smack him and see if it looks like he goes farther" How does everyone do their testing?

 

[ddonaldo]

What you could do is go to training mode and find the exact % mario gets "blasted" out of the stage from a FF f-air on the edge of FD
Then with that % do the same with a non-fast fall f-air. if mario does get "blasted", FFing has no effect on knockback and vice versa

I might do this myself 2day, im pretty bored and basically just waiting for uni 2 start

 

[codeman0624]

What you could do is go to training mode and find the exact % mario gets "blasted" out of the stage from a FF f-air on the edge of FD
Then with that % do the same with a non-fast fall f-air. if mario does get "blasted", FFing has no effect on knockback and vice versa

I might do this myself 2day, im pretty bored and basically just waiting for uni 2 start

Let me know what you get for results! I won't be able to test it until tomorrow at the earliest

 

[ddonaldo]

btw I tested this and FFing doesnt make a difference. Sonic gets "blasted" off the stage at 165% at least iirc by f-air regardless of FFing or not.

 

[saviorslegacy]

btw I tested this and FFing doesnt make a difference. Sonic gets "blasted" off the stage at 165% at least iirc by f-air regardless of FFing or not.

Test it on MK at 63%. FF and Fair him while he is on the stage.
Then test it on a MK at 58%, f-tilt him (brings him up to 63%) and do a normal Fair.

^^^^^^ That was what had me curious.

 

[<π]

the fair was reasonable. fair has decent knock back when fresh. I kill with fair often; hitting that far at seventy doesn't shock me at all.

 

[saviorslegacy]

hmmmm.. new throw mix up.

(at low percents)
B-Throw> DACUS

 

[Judo777]

If that could connect(not sure if it really does) couldn't u just as easily hyphen smash?

 

[ddonaldo]

Im not really a fan of using DACUS at low %. I learnt the hard way when I attempted a grab release DACUS on MK at 90% and he didnt die =[

 

[saviorslegacy]

If that could connect(not sure if it really does) couldn't u just as easily hyphen smash?

It does connect, but after they are out of hit stun.
It is escapable, but effective.

The reason why it isn't 100% legit is that they go to far to the right/left. If a hyped would reach we would have better options.


IMO, we we throw it needs to be one of two.
Either B-Throw of D-Throw.
D-Throw= juggling
B-Throw= more than one follow up depending on their DI

Im not really a fan of using DACUS at low %. I learnt the hard way when I attempted a grab release DACUS on MK at 90% and he didnt die =[

Well, shouldn't that tried it then. He doesn't die until about 93%.

We are using DACUS at a real low percent. SO no decay issue's here.

 

[-Mars-]

I've always been a fan of fthrow for some reason.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I've always been a fan of fthrow for some reason.

F-Throw can be a CG if an air dodge is forced.

BTW, when did you become a Ganon main? o_o

 

[-Mars-]

Ganon is too good.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Ganon is too good.

If you ever fight me I'm chain camping you then. lol

I do agree though. Ganon, Link, Sheik and maybe even Zelda are fun to play as.
Sheik is the best out of all of them and has more potential.
That and she is freakin cool.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea I play all 4 of the Zelda characters, have since the game came out. Sheik is so much better than the other 3 though lol the other 3 suck. I just like fast fallers for some reason.......I like being able to throw out lots of aerials in a row lol. I think I just picked up Zelda originally because of switching for kills and then I just got good with her. My Link is terrible though so Ganon will probably be my character for low tier tournies.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yea I play all 4 of the Zelda characters, have since the game came out. Sheik is so much better than the other 3 though lol the other 3 suck. I just like fast fallers for some reason.......I like being able to throw out lots of aerials in a row lol. I think I just picked up Zelda originally because of switching for kills and then I just got good with her. My Link is terrible though so Ganon will probably be my character for low tier tournies.

If Ike falls far enough he will be my choice for low tier tournies.
That or Ganon/Samus.
I'm even thinking about picking up Samus for fun.
She has pretty good combo's, good range, a good f-tilt (to handle upl close), every airial is aut canceled, a spike, grab fun and a decent recovery. I don't see why she is so low.
People say she has troubli killing or she gets ***** up close. She is a floaty and can Nair out of combo and try to f-tilt. Just my opinion.

I need to train my Zelda though. When I switch for a kill I wnt to know how to get that kill in.

lol, it'd be funny if Sheik was still considered low tier. We could **** everyone. lol
Our worst match up would be banned.

 

[-Mars-]

If Ike falls far enough he will be my choice for low tier tournies.
That or Ganon/Samus.
I'm even thinking about picking up Samus for fun.
She has pretty good combo's, good range, a good f-tilt (to handle upl close), every airial is aut canceled, a spike, grab fun and a decent recovery. I don't see why she is so low.
People say she has troubli killing or she gets ***** up close. She is a floaty and can Nair out of combo and try to f-tilt. Just my opinion.

I need to train my Zelda though. When I switch for a kill I wnt to know how to get that kill in.

lol, it'd be funny if Sheik was still considered low tier. We could **** everyone. lol
Our worst match up would be banned.

Yea Samus or ZSS would have been my main(s) if Sheik had of gotten left out of Brawl. I play a pretty good Samus and ZSS I think I could probably do well with ZSS if I felt like it lol. Samus is way fun she just has terrible OoS options, bad melee game, and her killing power really is a big issue.

I really believe having a competent Zelda can take your Sheik further.....don't just listen to Tristan xD. She just has a completely different style from Sheik though so it can be difficult to make the adjustment.

Sheik might be high tier in a little bit lol people that don't think she's at least B tier are misinformed and need to do some research.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yea Samus or ZSS would have been my main(s) if Sheik had of gotten left out of Brawl. I play a pretty good Samus and ZSS I think I could probably do well with ZSS if I felt like it lol. Samus is way fun she just has terrible OoS options, bad melee game, and her killing power really is a big issue.

I really believe having a competent Zelda can take your Sheik further.....don't just listen to Tristan xD. She just has a completely different style from Sheik though so it can be difficult to make the adjustment.

Sheik might be high tier in a little bit lol people that don't think she's at least B tier are misinformed and need to do some research.

I think the fact that she can chain camp, space well, survive for a while (don't argue), Needle campers/pressure with Needle's, hard counter some people, DACUS out of GR on MK for a kill at 93%, f-tilt> USmash, f-tilt lock for some to a lot of damage, take pressure pretty well, have legit combo's and have a good BW (shhhh all you people who are new at it) makes her at least high tier.
(steal from <3)
"I don't main Sheik cuz I think she is good."


K, everyone read the below please

On Wendsday I done something extremely awesome. I canceled my chain.
Some how I withdrew my chain and canceled the animation and accidently dash attacked Yoshi.
We paused and was like "WTF was that". He said he wasn't attacking since he was trying to DI out of the chain, and there was no sign of an attack animation (that and he was almost out so he wouldn't reach me) so attacking me is out of the question. My finger slipped off of the B button when I went to hold A so I could BW.
I wanted to record it when the match ended but we were past the time. I later found out that he had infinite record time. >.<

Now w/e this is I have been unable to duplicate it. So that is why I'm posting this. Maybe someone will find it out.
Here is what needs testing:

I performed DA so see if it has anything to do with it. I was wiggling the chain so there might be a connection with dashing.
Maybe it has to deal with the holding A after B or something.
Maybe it has to deal with the Chain be retracted at a certain point has very low priority so that DA can cancel it.
Maybe there is a certain frame that it has to be retracted on for you to cancel it.
I can't remember if it was SH or not but look into that too.

Well, if we could find this that would be huge. We might even be able to lift the foe off of the ground and DACUS tipper! WHo know's, but a follow up out of chain is revelutionary and we need to find out how to do this.

 

[Tristan_win]

I think the fact that she can chain camp, space well, survive for a while (don't argue), Needle campers/pressure with Needle's, hard counter some people, DACUS out of GR on MK for a kill at 93%, f-tilt> USmash, f-tilt lock for some to a lot of damage, take pressure pretty well, have legit combo's and have a good BW (shhhh all you people who are new at it) makes her at least high tier.
(steal from <3)
"I don't main Sheik cuz I think she is good."


K, everyone read the below please

On Wendsday I done something extremely awesome. I canceled my chain.
Some how I withdrew my chain and canceled the animation and accidently dash attacked Yoshi.
We paused and was like "WTF was that". He said he wasn't attacking since he was trying to DI out of the chain, and there was no sign of an attack animation (that and he was almost out so he wouldn't reach me) so attacking me is out of the question. My finger slipped off of the B button when I went to hold A so I could BW.
I wanted to record it when the match ended but we were past the time. I later found out that he had infinite record time. >.<

Now w/e this is I have been unable to duplicate it. So that is why I'm posting this. Maybe someone will find it out.
Here is what needs testing:

I performed DA so see if it has anything to do with it. I was wiggling the chain so there might be a connection with dashing.
Maybe it has to deal with the holding A after B or something.
Maybe it has to deal with the Chain be retracted at a certain point has very low priority so that DA can cancel it.
Maybe there is a certain frame that it has to be retracted on for you to cancel it.
I can't remember if it was SH or not but look into that too.

Well, if we could find this that would be huge. We might even be able to lift the foe off of the ground and DACUS tipper! WHo know's, but a follow up out of chain is revelutionary and we need to find out how to do this.

10-four on testing the canceling of the chain into dash attack. I’ve never tried to do that before.

and lol @ Marz. Zelda can still be semi useful just it's purely match up dependent so like if your
fighting de3 a sheik/zelda combo is a dream come true but fighting someone like Link (randomly pick character) then pretty much rolling with sheik OoS nair is better.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea Sheiks main problems are her recovery and weight.

Chain cancel would be amazing.

 

[stealth3654]

On Wendsday I done something extremely awesome. I canceled my chain.
Some how I withdrew my chain and canceled the animation and accidently dash attacked Yoshi.
We paused and was like "WTF was that". He said he wasn't attacking since he was trying to DI out of the chain, and there was no sign of an attack animation (that and he was almost out so he wouldn't reach me) so attacking me is out of the question. My finger slipped off of the B button when I went to hold A so I could BW.
I wanted to record it when the match ended but we were past the time. I later found out that he had infinite record time. >.<

Now w/e this is I have been unable to duplicate it. So that is why I'm posting this. Maybe someone will find it out.
Here is what needs testing:

I performed DA so see if it has anything to do with it. I was wiggling the chain so there might be a connection with dashing.
Maybe it has to deal with the holding A after B or something.
Maybe it has to deal with the Chain be retracted at a certain point has very low priority so that DA can cancel it.
Maybe there is a certain frame that it has to be retracted on for you to cancel it.
I can't remember if it was SH or not but look into that too.

a follow up out of chain is revelutionary and we need to find out how to do this.

Do you remember the exact timing when your finger slipped from B to A and which direction you where pressing on your control stick? Where you pressing any other buttons besides A, B? Also, I find it kind of weird that you waited until the day after to tell us .

 

[Judo777]

saviors think closely about whether it was sh or not thats important. Were u doing a lock where it hits like every 2 frames or was it more steady hits. The scenario sounds more like a grounded one since u really dont have to sdi sh-chain as much since it has more knockback

 

[saviorslegacy]

10-four on testing the canceling of the chain into dash attack. I’ve never tried to do that before.

and lol @ Marz. Zelda can still be semi useful just it's purely match up dependent so like if your
fighting de3 a sheik/zelda combo is a dream come true but fighting someone like Link (randomly pick character) then pretty much rolling with sheik OoS nair is better.

We need to figure out who it is smart to turn into Zelda against.

Yea Sheiks main problems are her recovery and weight.

Chain cancel would be amazing.

Hey, weight is not much of an issue. That is why I'm learning to DI and play more hit and run at high percents.

I know lol. Imagine the possibilities. Now imagine that we don't replicate it....

Do you remember the exact timing when your finger slipped from B to A and which direction you where pressing on your control stick? Where you pressing any other buttons besides A, B? Also, I find it kind of weird that you waited until the day after to tell us .

No, but it shouldn't be more than 5 seconds.
I was locking to the right so I was waving it from 6 to 3 oclock.

BTW, I was doing this at the Metroid Acid stage (I can't remember its name.)

Meh, I don't tell you guys a lot of thing.
ie Vanish Boosting (not the edge kind), a new USmash set up, a new way to end the f-tilt lock that directly leads into f-tilt again for a USmash, silent chain and more. I don't tell cuz I just don't know.

saviors think closely about whether it was sh or not thats important. Were u doing a lock where it hits like every 2 frames or was it more steady hits. The scenario sounds more like a grounded one since u really dont have to sdi sh-chain as much since it has more knockback

hmm.. good idea. It was a normal one cuz he was in there longer than he would if it was a SH.



On another note:
I found out that M2K have some similarities.

We were both home schooled.

We both have strange disease's. He has autism. Both disease's help us in SSBB.
Mine is like a weird version of autism. Basically I have a hyper active mind. If my mind goes onto something I can't get it off. This includes songs, movies and what people have said. Because of this I have developed almost a second me. My mind can completely be doing something else while the other part of me does another thing. ie Playing a song while doing math. It just... if I have a visual I can't do anything else and it can take me hours to get my mind on something new. If I get my mind on School I have been known to do 5 days of work in 1.
Guess what my mind has been on for the past few months? lol

It also helps me play Brawl. Part of me can focus on what they are doing and memorizing what they do. The other part of me can compare what I have learned in the past, and then develop a way to get around that. I also do that for if anyone if pressuring me.
I haven't fought Nicalobe in months except for about 30 minutes on Saturday and about 1 hour maybe more on Wendsday. I went from losing every match and getting 2 or 3 stocked to winning half of the time.

With the above said, I curse the day I ever watched Bob the Builder.
It has been years now and I still get that stupid episode to play through my head. -_-

We both live in Ohio.

In a year I hope to be at a high level.
I can upload a match of me from this time last year to compare to now.
lol, December of last year I thought f-tilt lock was to hard to perform in a match.

 

[ddonaldo]

Chain cancel would be too awesome, you said yoshi was trying to DI out of it, are you sure he wasnt smash DIing out of it. smash DI requires the c-stick and could trigger off an attack