Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[stealth3654]

One question. When using the chain lock and reverse chain lock, should I use the aerial chain or the grounded one? Whenever I try the aerial chain, the knock back pushed my opponent up and out of the chain lock, but the grounded one seemed like it didn't have enough hit stun.

 

[Judo777]

definitely the grounded chain. Tho i do think sh-chain is better overall since its safer and easier grounded chain is the only one that can chain lock i believe. sh-chain has too much knockback and actually knocks up. Grounded can deal more dmg but you have to be better to use it IMO

 

[saviorslegacy]

One question. When using the chain lock and reverse chain lock, should I use the aerial chain or the grounded one? Whenever I try the aerial chain, the knock back pushed my opponent up and out of the chain lock, but the grounded one seemed like it didn't have enough hit stun.

It depends, do you want to camp or lock?


If you are going for the lock and you want more damage then go with the grounded chain. It attacks every 2 frames and the foe has 3 frames of hit stun so do it VERY quickly.

If you want to camp then go with the air chain. It provides more knock back and makes it harder to hit Sheik.
You can attack every 2 frames just like the last one but knock back and hit stun is doubled I believe (6 frames of hit stun).

 

[stealth3654]

It depends, do you want to camp or lock?


If you are going for the lock and you want more damage then go with the grounded chain. It attacks every 2 frames and the foe has 3 frames of hit stun so do it VERY quickly.

If you want to camp then go with the air chain. It provides more knock back and makes it harder to hit Sheik.
You can attack every 2 frames just like the last one but knock back and hit stun is doubled I believe (6 frames of hit stun).

Thanks, this is exactly what I needed to know.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Hey guys,
I have no input on this vid since I'm at a friends house and have no Wii, but I wanted to know what your opinions on this is and if Sheik can use this tech in your opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHDWJZBDu9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvFYmWUcpJs&feature=related

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Honest question, does Pikachu have the CG at any percentage or simply low percentages?

 

[-Mars-]

Hey guys,
I have no input on this vid since I'm at a friends house and have no Wii, but I wanted to know what your opinions on this is and if Sheik can use this tech in your opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHDWJZBDu9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvFYmWUcpJs&feature=related

I messed around with this a while ago after watching Legan do some Pivot Boosting with his Link. I think it's only more beneficial for character that are slower with ranged moves(like Link). Like with Sheik it isn't all that necessary because she's so quick.......*shrugs*.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Honest question, does Pikachu have the CG at any percentage or simply low percentages?

I think he has one at mid percents.... but it doesn't do near as much damage as the decayed version.

 

[stealth3654]

Honest question, does Pikachu have the CG at any percentage or simply low percentages?

At low %s Pika can fthrow you and pummel you till you get to dthrow CG %s (20%). You might be able to struggle out while Pika is pummeling, but if you get grabbed at 0% prepare to eat a lot of damage and possibly a stock. After you pass the dthrow GC%s, Pika can't do his dthrow CG on Sheik because the decay of the throw and Sheik's % will screw up the cg allowing you to escape. On the other hand, Pika can do his fthrow CG on Sheik till around 58% plus a regrab.

 

[ddonaldo]

not sure if this is known so feel free to flame if it is but ive also noticed that fsmash can be used on opponents in helpless animation (idk official name but the position they are in for jab/laser lock) and both hits of the fsmash will always hit.
I'm going to try it out a bit more but its nice to know since the only thing preventing fsmash from being a good attack is that opponents can easily DI out of the 2nd hit

 

[saviorslegacy]

not sure if this is known so feel free to flame if it is but ive also noticed that fsmash can be used on opponents in helpless animation (idk official name but the position they are in for jab/laser lock) and both hits of the fsmash will always hit.
I'm going to try it out a bit more but its nice to know since the only thing preventing fsmash from being a good attack is that opponents can easily DI out of the 2nd hit

Sheik usually has better options.
If she is close enough and they force get up you can get a Vanish on them to either kill or do the Vanish combo.
You can also either repeat putting them into the helpless state or try and get an f-tilt on for either a lock or a decayed f-tilt> USmash.

Oh, yes we did know about it but thanks for caring enough to tell us.

 

[ddonaldo]

i was aware of vanish, but it can be difficult since the start-up lag of vanish means the opponent can invincibility frame out of it, but you make an excellent point with f-tilt

and thanks for the non-flame response =]

 

[saviorslegacy]

i was aware of vanish, but it can be difficult since the start-up lag of vanish means the opponent can invincibility frame out of it, but you make an excellent point with f-tilt

and thanks for the non-flame response =]

If timed right the Vanish isn't a problem.

You're welcome! ^^

Vanish catch> FSmash was what we used to do so don't think you found something useless.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

vanish something that has to be timed right and you need to think where you should appear quick. i vanish when i suspect a sidestep or i vanish for mindgames like you go up to them vanish once with a sidestep. then run back and go up to them and shad. something creative . you have to get vanish hit the right point or it wont create the knockback you want. i would try to get the vanish off ground.

 

[saviorslegacy]

vanish something that has to be timed right and you need to think where you should appear quick. i vanish when i suspect a sidestep or i vanish for mindgames like you go up to them vanish once with a sidestep. then run back and go up to them and shad. something creative . you have to get vanish hit the right point or it wont create the knockback you want. i would try to get the vanish off ground.

Nice tid bit of info.
I don't use Vanish much, unless I Vanish glide or try and punish a roll. When I can get a Fair> Needle jab lock I'll either f-tilt> USmash, pivot grab> grab release DACUS or Vanish> needle> DACUS.
Which BTW.. I found isn't a true combo (the Fair> Needle's). I thought it was after about 7 try's at trying to tech it, but a friend of mine helped out and he could tech it on like the 12th try or something like that. It looks like there is maybe 1 frame that they can tech on before the Needles hit them.

Here in the next month after I finish all of the current posts I have I'll test and see who all the Vanish> Vanish catch> FF> Needle's> USmash is legit on.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

just vanish if it catches or throws them opposite way. to the intended projection then you should just use needles. because if you try a fsmash if they are fast enough they could shield it. you have lag frames after the vanish

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Hey, can someone make something along the lines of what the Bowser boards have? A grab release chart or even a list so that we all know what kind of options we have on ANY character AND possible follow-up options after a release? This has always perplexed me.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Hey, can someone make something along the lines of what the Bowser boards have? A grab release chart or even a list so that we all know what kind of options we have on ANY character AND possible follow-up options after a release? This has always perplexed me.

We really don't have it in print, but we have it on video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=JP&hl=ja&v=i85euqQhlS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=JP&hl=ja&v=nCJYB1ZuhtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=JP&hl=ja&v=BWjFS8Kn6nc

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I know we don't but we should. I've seen the vids many times but having it on paper and knowing what you can and cannot do on a GR would be great. Such as if we can grab release to a Ftilt or something. I think it'd be a community project we could look into or something.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I know we don't but we should. I've seen the vids many times but having it on paper and knowing what you can and cannot do on a GR would be great. Such as if we can grab release to a Ftilt or something. I think it'd be a community project we could look into or something.

Well this is easy.
Just watch the video's, write what you see and post it.
IMO, there is such a little bit there that it isn't worth making a new post.

If you want to you can post it here or make a memo of it so you can memorize her grab release's.

 

[<π]

teh pika chain is only at low percents. I just played Razek's pika a few days ago... think I'm gonna have to go wolf or jiggy against pika in tourney. the match is fun in friendlies but one low percent grab is 100 damage and an edge gaurd op; not feelin' it, lol. I make too many mistakes to trust myself.

And... yeah... same with ICs. Not saying it is unwinnable, just saying I still making too many mistakes.

 

[saviorslegacy]

teh pika chain is only at low percents. I just played Razek's pika a few days ago... think I'm gonna have to go wolf or jiggy against pika in tourney. the match is fun in friendlies but one low percent grab is 100 damage and an edge gaurd op; not feelin' it, lol. I make too many mistakes to trust myself.

And... yeah... same with ICs. Not saying it is unwinnable, just saying I still making too many mistakes.

These two match ups are why I am alting G&W.


:EDIT:
I found something a week or so ago. I would like to continue testing but I can't.
"Dair can be canceled."
Well.. kinda, its ending lag can be shortened.
While you are getting up hammer jump and you will jump out of part of you ending lag, not much though.
Go into training, zoom in and put the speed at 1/4.
Perform Dair and watch how long it takes for Sheik to stand back up.
Now perform Dair and after you land hammer jump and see how long it takes for you to leave the ground.

My idea is that maybe we can cancel it completely by hitting jump on the infi jump frame.
It works while you are on the ground, why wouldn't it work here?


If anyone tests that out for me to cure my curiosity I will be pleased.
If not... then I guess I can try and test it on Thursday. -_-

 

[Judo777]

<3 i have alot of experience in the pikachu matchup and for real serious matches i just use zelda its way easier. But concerning the sheik pika matchup that CG really sucks but the good news is its never a guarenteed kill at least not on most levels. And the other part is i feel that the chain grab aside sheik actually has the advantage in this matchup because sheik can really beat pikachu out of most of his moves. Our aerial game is way way better IMO we can outcamp him if we are smart, and he has a hard time killing if we pay attention to the thunders.

 

[gm jack]

He chaingrabs to 105% with a regrab. Quite frankly, they are going to have to be pretty poor to let you catch back up after that.

 

[Judo777]

well pika can have trouble KOing if you pay attention to thunder and watch for nairs. Dsmash should never kill you. and what i was saying was aside from the grab we beat pika in the air and on the ground IMO. Ftilt beats most of his ground moves and bair stuffs all his aerials except maybe dair which is ez to see coming. We can also out camp pika.

 

[<π]

Without the chain I wreck pikas. with the chain I like 60-40. I make a mistake and get grabbed and have to work really hard to avoid traps. pika can't camp sheik and his approach options aren't that strong when you couple our speed and range. QAC is silly.

 

[saviorslegacy]

chain camping lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM9t-tt9K6c

 

[Leafplayer452]

Anyone know if dthrow to uair is a true combo?

 

[ddonaldo]

its not, opponent can double jump or DI away from you

 

[Judo777]

I think it can be on the right character at certain percents but im not sure

 

[saviorslegacy]

Anyone know if dthrow to uair is a true combo?

It is
If you double jump you can usually get more speed so you get up there faster.

I think it can be on the right character at certain percents but im not sure

yep, what he said.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUP7i8vjflk -Vanish Cancel

:EDIT:

****!!!!! Snake and Yoshi has a grab release CG on us. T-T

lol, told you I found it before Innocentroads.
*look at page 45*

Although, that Yoshi can also follow up into Fair I guess.
Good thing is.. NONE OF IT IS LEGIT!!!!

 

[saviorslegacy]

****!!!!! Snake and Yoshi has a grab release CG on us. T-T

lol, told you I found it before Innocentroads.
*look at page 45*

Although, that Yoshi can also follow up into Fair I guess.
Good thing is.. NONE OF IT IS LEGIT!!!!

:EDIT:
OH ****!
I was searching for a video way back in this thread when I noticed this. I didn't realize that I was the last one to post here. -_-
I'll go ahead and edit the info from this post into the one above.
Ankoku, I believe you can delete posts so please do it to this one. -_-

 

[choknater]

It is
If you double jump you can usually get more speed so you get up there faster.

a true combo means 'inescapable' combo. dthrow uair is definitely a good option to use especially if u autocancel the uair cuz it puts you in an amazing position

but the dthrow uair itself is not a true combo

its ok savior just terminology : )

 

[saviorslegacy]

a true combo means 'inescapable' combo. dthrow uair is definitely a good option to use especially if u autocancel the uair cuz it puts you in an amazing position

but the dthrow uair itself is not a true combo

its ok savior just terminology : )

I got it to register in training mode as a true combo by double jumping......

 

[-Mars-]

I think someone touched on this before cant really remember but hitting with the three hit dsmash does insane amounts of damage.......i've been trying to come up with a setup for it but the only thing I can think of is that the reason it happens is due to the opponents DI. Anyone know the reason for the 3 hit dsmash.....do I need to hit with a certain part or direction?

 

[Judo777]

I rarely get the three hits to land cause the first one generally knocks them away i want to say they have to shield and screw up the timing but idk.

SL just to let you know i dont remember where i saw it but someone had a vid showing that just cause training mode says its a combo doesnt meant it is cause they escape it with sdi and stuff(think it was a fox). But one example is it says pikas dsmash is a combo which is cake to escape.

On a side not and sorry for getting multiple topics on here but i had never seen this before. In training meta was standing on the ledge and i accidentally did a vanish stall and i vanish caught meta even tho i reappeared in the same exact place i disappeared. Idk if anyone had seen this before but it was new to me.

 

[Tristan_win]

On a side not and sorry for getting multiple topics on here but i had never seen this before. In training meta was standing on the ledge and i accidentally did a vanish stall and i vanish caught meta even tho i reappeared in the same exact place i disappeared. Idk if anyone had seen this before but it was new to me.

Yeah although most things about the vanish isn't talk about much since it's rather consider common knowledge or there's really nothing to improve upon.

Which isn't true, I for one would love to know every % it can catch and kill if done off stage and what % it could kill on everyone with DI on stage...Although no one like doing percent gather because it takes forever since you don't know the pattern of the numbers yet.

 

[Judo777]

hey i think i actually found a reasonable use for needle gliding. I was just screwing around in training mode (this is probably already known but thought i should bring it up anyway) and u can needle glide from a side platform to grab the ledge. Its much quicker than any other option to get the ledge. Very situational but hey thats why its Q and A thread

 

[saviorslegacy]

I think someone touched on this before cant really remember but hitting with the three hit dsmash does insane amounts of damage.......i've been trying to come up with a setup for it but the only thing I can think of is that the reason it happens is due to the opponents DI. Anyone know the reason for the 3 hit dsmash.....do I need to hit with a certain part or direction?

I talked about it.
Actually, it has 5 hits. One in the center and two on each side. If you are lucky you can get a fast faller with the center one and have both hits on the side land. You can do this with a walking DSmash (it carries momentum).

If all 5 hits land it does about 50%. Go to training, hit a guy with the item that puts people into the ground from Animal Crossing and perform DSmash.

I rarely get the three hits to land cause the first one generally knocks them away i want to say they have to shield and screw up the timing but idk.

SL just to let you know i dont remember where i saw it but someone had a vid showing that just cause training mode says its a combo doesnt meant it is cause they escape it with sdi and stuff(think it was a fox). But one example is it says pikas dsmash is a combo which is cake to escape.

On a side not and sorry for getting multiple topics on here but i had never seen this before. In training meta was standing on the ledge and i accidentally did a vanish stall and i vanish caught meta even tho i reappeared in the same exact place i disappeared. Idk if anyone had seen this before but it was new to me.

Meh, if that's the case then it is a semi combo which is good enough for me.

Yep, there are quite a few ways to catch. My personal favorites have to deal with Vanish Glides and putting people onto platforms where you can wait for the action and punish with tipper USmash. You have enough time to punish everything so in my book it is 100% guaranteed.

Yeah although most things about the vanish isn't talk about much since it's rather consider common knowledge or there's really nothing to improve upon.

Which isn't true, I for one would love to know every % it can catch and kill if done off stage and what % it could kill on everyone with DI on stage...Although no one like doing percent gather because it takes forever since you don't know the pattern of the numbers yet.

This is one of the things I have looked into and plan on looking into even more in the future.

hey i think i actually found a reasonable use for needle gliding. I was just screwing around in training mode (this is probably already known but thought i should bring it up anyway) and u can needle glide from a side platform to grab the ledge. Its much quicker than any other option to get the ledge. Very situational but hey thats why its Q and A thread

Wellll... there are more use's than that. I have them listed in Sheiks Diary:

Needle Glide> Cancel> chain
That is an EXTREMELY fast way to chain hog.

Needle Glide while throwing Needle's> Fair
Use this as a gimp. Not 100% but it is close. Basically it is a Fair set up.

Needle Glide off a platform while throwing Needle's> f-tilt
IDK if it is 100& but it is pretty cool.

Needle Glide off a platform> cancel> use your imagination

I am curious if we can slide from a Needle Boost.






Hey guys, I need some help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S54mPByImY0 watch what Sheik does with Vanish.
The way that works is that you are getting a momentum boost and following up with Vanish which use's the momentum.
I wonder if you can get a momentum boost to follow up with Vanish buy using something rather than DACS. Try using Needle Boosts and such.

Well, I would appreciate someone looking into this. I have other stuff to look into....

 

[j0s3ph]

Hey guys, I need some help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S54mPByImY0 watch what Sheik does with Vanish.
The way that works is that you are getting a momentum boost and following up with Vanish which use's the momentum.
I wonder if you can get a momentum boost to follow up with Vanish buy using something rather than DACS. Try using Needle Boosts and such.

Well, I would appreciate someone looking into this. I have other stuff to look into....

I'll experiment with it.

Oh and this morning I got kill percents for dsmash at FD's edge. I'm going to collect Nair kill percents there too then post em.