Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[#HBC | Scary]

Is the new Zelda AT viable for Sheik? (B-Reverse momentum cancelling

 

[stealth3654]

Is the new Zelda AT viable for Sheik? (B-Reverse momentum cancelling

I'm wondering about this, too. I think it might work with the chain since it stops your momentum.

 

[East]

Doesn't work with needles... : (

 

[<π]

oh well.

 

[SuSa]

Does anyone have a list that I could put into my textbook of:

1) Characters that can be grab release CHAINGARBBED
2) Characters that can be grab release DACUS'd
3) Characters that when grabbed at the edge - you can throw needles to hit them. (Sonic is one of them..)
4) Characters that you can gimp if you grab them at the edge with air release > single needle > sourspot bair/nair > recover (I'm thinking the spacies?)

I'm thinking of using Sheik as my secondary for my next tournament... and I'll have this information with me and my Snake info.

 

[Slashpockets]

Peach: You have to play defensive. If she starts floating just use a DACUS, but don't be predictable with it.

Defensive would probably be the way to go.
But That's how you beat normal peaches.
How in the world am I ever going to beat Cao's peach?
For those who don't know Caotic, He is the best melee player in Australia, and he is great at Brawl.

 

[stealth3654]

If your move cancels out another move or projectile or trade with another attack, does it get added to the decay list? Also, does the get up attack get added to the decay list, too?

 

[East]

I think the get-up attack does add to the decay list. Attacks that clank or trade... I'm not so sure about.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think the get-up attack does add to the decay list. Attacks that clank or trade... I'm not so sure about.

GUA yes

Clank no

Trade yes

 

[GwJ]

Other people need you!

DarkWarCloud has opened up the Training Grounds. What this is is a place for new players to learn who plays what characters all in a simple thread so that they can contact said person to "teach" them the basics. As of right now, we only have a handful of "teachers" for a few characters and we need more! This is where you come in. Anyone who is skilled with your characters (any character) and has the free time to teach someone how to either: Teach the basics of the game in general and/or teach specific character(s), go in the thread and either post or PM DarkWarCloud with your information (Format is in the thread) where you may possibly be contacted by someone who wants to learn. The future of smash lies in your hands.

On the other hand, if you wish to learn, go to the thread also!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241698

 

[SuSa]

Grab release needle is ****. Now who all can I do it to?

*regrab's MK to edge, then releases into full needles 24/7*

Fun ****.

 

[-Mars-]

Innocent Roads' Youtube channel.

 

[SuSa]

I could've sworn I've done it to characters he did not show, although the situations vary sometimes. I know he showed some characters who work on a slope, but there are others who work in very much the same way, on different stages, and various slopes.

That is if I remember his video correctly...

Also it's a lot easier just to get a **** list..

EDIT:

It's missing some stuff.

Grab Release --> DACUS

Mario
SoPo
Meta Knight
Pikachu
Squirtle
Lucas
Bowser*
DK*
Diddy Kong*?
Link*
Ganon*
Zamus*
Pit*
King Dedede*
Falco*
Captain Falcon*
Charizard*
Ike*
Snake*
Sonic*

Grab Release --> Regrab
Meta Knight
Squirtle
Lucas

Grab Release --> Needles
Squirtle
Meta Knight
Sonic**

Grab Release --> Dash Grab
Ness
Lucas

Grab Release --> Fair
Ness
G&W

Slanted Grab Release --> DACUS

Yoshi
Toon Link
Ness
G&W

Grab Release --> Dash Attack
Sheik*



*
They must force an air release by preshing the Jump button when mashing out.

**They must be grabbed at the edge

 

[Charoo]

Defensive would probably be the way to go.
But That's how you beat normal peaches.
How in the world am I ever going to beat Cao's peach?
For those who don't know Caotic, He is the best melee player in Australia, and he is great at Brawl.

caotic is my hero. Say hi to him for me

 

[Dabuz]

are there any vids showing how to do the chain jacket and vids showing exactly how to do the chain lock? the directions don't make sense to me

 

[SuSa]

Sheik's JJC (Jab-Jab Cancel, search the Fox boards for more info if you don't know what it is) is pretty ****.

With that, I never really see many people use it - or I'm simply not paying enough attention to videos.

With that, I'm thinking of looking into Sheik's frame advantage for it, because it seems to exist. It's the only thing I'll test - but I'll do it.

With that, I guess it's time to go hook up my Wii and do that first; then start on Snake's frame advantage for everything for in depth frame data.

 

[Tristan_win]

Sheik's JJC (Jab-Jab Cancel, search the Fox boards for more info if you don't know what it is) is pretty ****.

With that, I never really see many people use it - or I'm simply not paying enough attention to videos.

With that, I'm thinking of looking into Sheik's frame advantage for it, because it seems to exist. It's the only thing I'll test - but I'll do it.

With that, I guess it's time to go hook up my Wii and do that first; then start on Snake's frame advantage for everything for in depth frame data.

SuSa you will have my respect to the end of time if you produce useful results.

I mean even a +3 frame advantage with buffering would for the most part allow sheik to land a ftilt guaranteed if the jab cancel does make a opponent airborne expect to a few 1 frame starting attacks like marth up B.

=( I just hope sheik jab cancel doesn't leave people on the ground then their little hope for it to work other then being unexpected by your opponent, that is if it's not a true combo.... Although sheik jab cancel could also be match up dependent so maybe it will work on other while others be left on the ground.

I can't wait for the results, we need the meta game improvement badly :3

 

[Zankoku]

I've historically had 100% success doing jab jab dtilt, but I do not know why.

 

[East]

I've historically had 100% success doing jab jab dtilt, but I do not know why.

I've noticed you do that in matches as of late, and was never sure why, I guess now I do.

I really like jab jab grab, or jab jab ftilt. Those work pretty well for me. For conditioning and baiting characters like Marth, jab jab sheild. Punish.

 

[<π]

I've been saying that for ever... in this thread I think.

Yeah it's like ftilt, it is percent dependent, also if your opponent DI's incorrectly IE not into the ground they have to air dodge or throw out an attack instand of just shielding which obviously takes a considerably larger amount of time. I'll jab short grab at lower percents, but jab short dsmash works once you start getting up to kill percent for dsmash so use it...

 

[East]

jab short?! do you mean like medium punch = short? If that's the case <3, you need to teach me how to hurricane kick with sheik in brawl.

 

[SuSa]

I'm like 50% done with in depth Snake data.

Go look at the Fox boards for their JJC thread, it's 5 starred and on the first page. I feel your JJC will affect the same characters.

However I was able to get Jab Jab Ftilt to work on Jigglypuff from 0-7%........

 

[Tristan_win]

I'm like 50% done with in depth Snake data.

Go look at the Fox boards for their JJC thread, it's 5 starred and on the first page. I feel your JJC will affect the same characters.

However I was able to get Jab Jab Ftilt to work on Jigglypuff from 0-7%........

:/

Even if you land the jab jab cancel into ftilt at exactly 7% on Jigglypuff you would only obtain a 2 frame advantage

...lame.

 

[SuSa]

Jigglypuff is one of the worst it'd work on if it works I'd assume.

Anyways, here is the Fox JJC thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231749

Here is how far along the Snake data I am:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7935108#post7935108

I won't be doing sourspots/shield stuff for a while. Which means I'm done for now I think.

But I was requested to test frame data stuff with our nades and their weird properties on platforms... so I'll do that, then Sheik's JJC.

How long it takes to do, and the frame advantage you get from it (if any)

 

[<π]

the fox boards has lists of ways to interrupt it... like sheilding.

 

[SuSa]

When you guys start to look at mixups and options, even when not frame guaranteed, you may notice you start playing better.

It's something to add to your game, and if your telling me your opponent will know exactly what to do in under 7 frames when you JJC, you must be facing some people with some killer *** reflexes.

 

[<π]

Um...... what makes the climbers a hard sheik counter?

Armada picking a secondary for the isn't proof of that. While we all agree he is good he isn't the end all be all of sheik.

Susa, come on... jab->short doesn't happen in seven frames. it's a neat mix up but it isn't hard to shield follow up hits if you know how.

 

[Zankoku]

Let's see... ice blocks and needles trade off, chain can stop ice blocks but doesn't outrange blizzard. So in the event of attempting to camp, stalemate is the best you can hope for. You can try zoning with bair, but that, again, does nothing to blizzard.

Sheik's throws are slow, so her grab mixup to throw off IC's typical running shield approach is ineffective as you'll just get dsmashed by the other on reaction. Her other approaches are rather unsafe because hitting TWO shields makes lag that much greater. Even hitting one, you have to be careful because your usual stuff is made to stuff only one escape attempt.

If you get grabbed then you're probably dead. If Nana isn't synched properly then Popo can just solo chaingrab you with dthrow until she is. If the Ice Climbers are any kind of decent Ice Climbers then they won't randomly mess up the chaingrab and you will die.

Your juggle game is the only thing worth running here, but the question of how you're going to get the Ice Climbers up there in the first place comes up.

Sheik has advantage on solo Popo, though. No doubt.

 

[SuSa]

Um...... what makes the climbers a hard sheik counter?

Armada picking a secondary for the isn't proof of that. While we all agree he is good he isn't the end all be all of sheik.

Susa, come on... jab->short doesn't happen in seven frames. it's a neat mix up but it isn't hard to shield follow up hits if you know how.

Jab-->Jab-->Cancel--> Hey look they are shielding, I should grab.

Jab-->Jab-->Cancel-->Hey look, they aren't shielding and I have x options that are quick enough from JJC.


I was playing with it a lot. It's a lot safer then rapid jab, which I see a lot of people having no problem spamming. <_<

 

[Zankoku]

I've run a lot of jab-jab/? gimmicks before but I'm not good at confirming the opponent's decision so I just mix it up as quick as I can and make it an RPS situation.

 

[SuSa]

RPS?

Also you have nearly any option after it. Go for what you like.

 

[Zankoku]

Rock Paper Scissors

It's my favorite kind of situation.

 

[SuSa]

I know RPS as SRP, it's actual name.

I don't like RPS (I'll just stick to it as you know it). It's good for a round or two, but then I like to predict.

Everyones predictable, it's a matter of finding out how to punish them for it.

 

[<π]

first you say it isn't humanly possible to react in 7 frames, and now we have time to watch for frame one stuff? In reality you are just guessing in situations like these.

I do want ankoku does I try to mix it up, but I grab more often than not till higher percents.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I was just playing against a Peach and she pulled out toad thinking I would use needles but instead I DACUSed and went right through toad (he sprayed his stuff) and hit peach with the side hit of DACUS in the back of the head and KOd her.

I just figured you guys might want to know, considering this is kinda useful against peach. spam single needles or something until she pulls out toad frequently then punish. Not sure if this is already known.

 

[Judo777]

Hey why did we stop the counterpicking thread i dont think it has moved off metaknight in like 8 months.

 

[<π]

cuz dat how sheik boards roll!!

I think the general conncensous is shiek does well on large flat stages in match ups she can camp. in matches you can't smaller stages are the better option.

As of now my favorite overall CP is Halbred. really big good plat low ceiling.

If I had to pick a worse stage...Frigate, needles are hurt pretty bad as well as your recovery on the opening part. plats aren't helpful at all. Or rainbow again because of the ineffectiveness of needles you have to approach a lot.


The peaches I play don't use toad to counter needles, they use sheild or float. toad is so easy to punish if you predict incorrectly as you've proven. If it works use it though.

 

[Zankoku]

I personally hate Brinstar more than Frigate. At least Frigate has long flat areas where you can capitalize on.

 

[<π]

I used to do well on brinstar, I used it as a CP. Seibrick pointed out that it is a good anti camping stage which makes sense but I didn't realize at the time. the stage is a little smaller but you can use needles effectively from any of the ground levels. the big reason I like it is because ftilt to usmash is viable at a much much wider percent/decay range because of the sloped plats.

I like the higher plats because you can full hop and still connect with like bair and stuff. I don't like those short hop height plats that i can't hit through with utilt or ftilt, I just don't feel as safe with them...

 

[-Mars-]

I've loved Halberd since the game came out.....the low ceiling makes DACUS and ftilt to usmash kill at insane percents. I don't think it gives Sheik any specific advantages but I would personally counterpick it because I just seem to do well on that stage.

I don't like Brinstar but you can decay your ftilt as much as you want so I guess that's nice.

I've also always loved PS1 for Sheik. She has a kinda lol wall infinite on the stage and chain can hit through some of the transformation points. The ledges also dont affect her as much as other characters and the stage is fairly large for needle camping.