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Ganon's Beard - General. Social. Rankings.

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Clai

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You know what'd be even more awesome? Ganon with Snake's utilt and D3's grab range.
The manliest way to make Ganon higher on the tier list is to just do what the hackers of Captain Falcon did and just make his Warlock Punch nearly instataneous.

The wind in Ganon's up-tilt should be so strong that you can't just go up to him and hit him out of it, almost like Kyogre's Water Spout, except that it pushes the opponents into murder range instead of pushing them away.

You're right in Ganon's grab range being stupid. His grab should be as long as his jab; I mean he's extending him arm out, why not just close his fist while he's at it?

And Ganon's appearance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MK's appearacne. Really, the last thing Ganon needs is bat wings.
 

Ganonsburg

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Wait, as Ganondorf, what do we have to fear? We are the ones who send out fear to encompass others. Ganondorf should be true to the Zelda games in a way that's not broken and in a way that people wouldn't flock to him like scrubby players flock to MK. /oxymoron

:034:
 

RuNNing Riot

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If only Ganon had MK's moveset, jumps, glide, weight, priority, speed, dodges, and appearance...

:034:
I agree with the priority, speed and dodges. But modifying him with any of the rest would be just tarnishing his image as the King of Evil, no? Ganondorf must remain Ganondorf. The last thing he needs is a pair of bat-wings and a mask.

Was this the thread you were talking about?
 

Noobicidal

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I agree with the priority, speed and dodges. But modifying him with any of the rest would be just tarnishing his image as the King of Evil, no? Ganondorf must remain Ganondorf. The last thing he needs is a pair of bat-wings and a mask.
*psst*

He's describing MK.

 

TP

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*psst*

He's describing MK.
*psst*

It's pretty obvious he got the joke.

Yes, this is the place to introduce yourself. Say a few sentences about yourself, and make sure you read some of our stickied threads, especially How to Murder Stuff.

Welcome to the board. :)

:034:
 

A2ZOMG

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Ganondorf basically just needs to have a pummel that does 5%, and a grab that has GOOD range, and he will be like high tier.

Dead serious. Most of you long-timers probably know what I mean. If Ganondorf had a solid grab game, this would solve almost all his problems dealing damage consistently, and he wouldn't be wasting the effectiveness of his tilts and aerials in the meantime, meaning he would be far more likely to have those fresh, and thus his ridiculous KO power would start becoming really scary.
 

SaltyKracka

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Another thing that would be a much-welcomed improvement to the Ganondorf that we all know is horribly screwed over by the physics would be a MAJOR reduction in his knockback decay. Now I acknowledge that his moves can't be all fresh, all the time, but he's supposed to be a POWER character. He shouldn't have to either gimp or wait until around 120% to be able to kill middleweight opponents with a decent attack like dtilt or uair. As for the DA, if we could fix it so that it could kill without it having to be the VERY FIRST use of it, that would be such a godsend.

One other thing that I feel could be mentioned, as well. Have you ever wizkicked into someone who's trying to recover from the stage? (As in, Stage > Wizkick > Opponent) Have you ever seen the knockback angle and power that it has then? It should always have that kind of power, even on the stage. That would be so **** useful.

Y'know what I mean?
 

:034:

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Ganondorf basically just needs to have a pummel that does 5%, and a grab that has GOOD range, and he will be like high tier.

Dead serious. Most of you long-timers probably know what I mean. If Ganondorf had a solid grab game, this would solve almost all his problems dealing damage consistently, and he wouldn't be wasting the effectiveness of his tilts and aerials in the meantime, meaning he would be far more likely to have those fresh, and thus his ridiculous KO power would start becoming really scary.
Agreed on this, a better grab game would fix Ganondorf in Brawl while keeping his playstyle practically the same. Actually being able to do some defensive things would be great. I'd also fix his throws, I'm loving fthrow, but dthrow and uthrow aren't that good, besides looking really awesome.

:034: Woah! Almost forgot you there.
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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Nidoking is the manliest PKMN evar, and therefor Ganon's best representativ.

Why is he the manliest, you ask? - 'Cause unlike other Pokemon, there's a 100% chance of Nidoking beeing a male >_>


Oh my gosh...
Nidoking PLUS Evil Hellfire Flames = win
List of pokémon who only exist as males:

Tyrogue
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan
Hitmontop
Gallade
Latios
Nidoran
Nidorino
Nidoking
Mothim
Volbeat
Tauros.

Also:
Gallade>Nidoking. :pimp:


And about our matches Z1gma:
I know man, but still, I cant help but look at what I did/didnt accomplish (in the form of winning %'s).

But yes, our games are truly epic.
Makes me wonder, what do you think about my falcon?

And the lag is indeed minimal. We should play again soon. :)
*cough*2night*cough* :pimp:
 

TP

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You know what Ganon really needs? A reflect. Then we wouldn't have to approach all the god**** time. That plus decent grab range would make me so happy.

:034:
 

SaltyKracka

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Better yet. Just make powershields able to reflect projectiles again, and then change G's B to some kind of move that heals whenever you get hit during it. By anything. By that exact same percentage. And it begins instantaneously.
 

Ricky

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Better yet. Just make powershields able to reflect projectiles again, and then change G's B to some kind of move that heals whenever you get hit during it. By anything. By that exact same percentage. And it begins instantaneously.
Yeah that would be pretty good for better approaching. That little difference could make those projectile spammers agitated or vice versa. For sure that would be a good return. Don't forget to mention Ganon should also have super armor in his B, better ungrabable during that animation.
 

adumbrodeus

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He-he well it is GANON after all. I don't see why he wasn't given any super armor to begin with. But yeah lots of things do come to mind with that said.
He was...

Foreward B, while the opponent is grabbed...


Useful in teams I guess, but not much else.



*Is a manly marth, if only because I play Ganon too*
 

Ricky

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He was...

Foreward B, while the opponent is grabbed...


Useful in teams I guess, but not much else.
Oh, you're right! I can't believe I didn't see that coming. It's used quite frequent playing Ganon competitive. Forget that. It should be more noticeable though if he'd get hit more often during that process.

adumbrodeus said:
*Is a manly marth, if only because I play Ganon too*
Fair enough.
 

Ray_Kalm

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He was...

Foreward B, while the opponent is grabbed...


Useful in teams I guess, but not much else.



*Is a manly marth, if only because I play Ganon too*
That's not super armor, that's grab armor. There's a huge difference between those two. Super armor is ALOT better.
 

Breezy

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I've been learning Falco as a CP against DDDs.
If I'm gunna get CGd, Might as well turn the boards on 'em and CG back. Great projectile too XD
 

:034:

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I use Snake occasionally as a secondary, but I seem to fail with him a lot. I just can't calm down playing as him. Oh well.

:034:
 

A2ZOMG

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WHYYYY wasn't Ganondorf given SA on his U-smash? WHYYYYYY?

Imagine taking a blow to the crotch like a man, and then kicking your opponent back in the face. The ultimate GTFO.

We should suggest that to the BBrawl team.
 

TP

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It REALLY doesn't make sense that WP has no SA. Seeing as DK's neutral B and Ike's both have it, and Ganon's is stronger than either of those, it should have had it too. The developers were probably too lazy, since it might be more complicated due to reverse WP. *******s.

:034:
 

*JuriHan*

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WHYYYY wasn't Ganondorf given SA on his U-smash? WHYYYYYY?

Imagine taking a blow to the crotch like a man, and then kicking your opponent back in the face. The ultimate GTFO.

We should suggest that to the BBrawl team.
lawl

10lulz
 

SaltyKracka

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I am going to go out and say this. The places of Ganon/Falcon, and MK/Snake, on the tier list are as they are because of failiures in design. Not simply in design quality, but also in design philosophy. The biggest failiure in design quality is Snake, which should be immediately obvious. The biggest failiure in design philosophy, however, is Ganon.
 

SaltyKracka

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Lawlno. Jiggs is supposed to be a light, floaty character that moves in and out in order to punish the opponent for attacking, then gimp the hell out of them. I see this reflected in Jiggs of Brawl. The only problem is that Sing is useless, but then, it always was...
 

*JuriHan*

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I am going to go out and say this. The places of Ganon/Falcon, and MK/Snake, on the tier list are as they are because of failiures in design. Not simply in design quality, but also in design philosophy. The biggest failiure in design quality is Snake, which should be immediately obvious. The biggest failiure in design philosophy, however, is Ganon.
Snake's design is perfect except for his face. Looks like Big Boss w/o eye patch. Don't give me the "they're clones you moron they look the same" ****, because Snake's face looked BETTER in MGS2: Sons of Liberty. I imagine they did that to please the MGS3 fan ***s.:urg:
 

Clai

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Snake's design is perfect except for his face. Looks like Big Boss w/o eye patch. Don't give me the "they're clones you moron they look the same" ****, because Snake's face looked BETTER in MGS2: Sons of Liberty. I imagine they did that to please the MGS3 fan ***s.:urg:
I'm pretty sure Salty was talking about Snake's tilts whose hitboxes extend a good distance away from where his body parts actually reach. Invisible hitboxes aer cool.
 

SaltyKracka

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I'm pretty sure Salty was talking about Snake's tilts whose hitboxes extend a good distance away from where his body parts actually reach. Invisible hitboxes aer cool.
Exactly, game design, not graphics. While the range of his tilts is the most obvious thing about Snake, there are a bunch of other things that just show poor design philosophy, poor understanding of gameplay, and just plain poor execution. The biggest showcase of poor execution has to be the Snakedash, something that shouldn't exist at all, much the same as Wavedashing wasn't supposed to. However, the most fundamental implementation flaws are revealed in all of the grenade tricks. 'Nade stripping? Momentum changing? What kind of idiot doesn't test far enough to determine things like that?

The part where poor design philosophy comes in is most blatant in his weight, power, and recovery. Snake is a power character, not only stronger but also heavier than a character such as Ike. However, while they gave characters like Ike, Ganondorf, and Link utterly ****ty recoveries that are of little use at all, they gave DK and Bowser moves with invincibility frames, something which would've also been useful on the characters who also have **** for recoveries. However, the biggest slap in the face has to be the recoveries of two power characters. Namely, DDD and Snake. They go high, they go far, they can be canceled, they can even be done again if the character is hit out of it. And that poor design is a fact.

And then there's the part where poor understanding of gameplay comes in. It's basically the other basis of Snake gameplay besides his tilts, and you and I should both know what it is. Nades and C4. I can just imagine what must have been going through the minds of the guys who designed those. It goes something like, "Hey, why not give him a very powerful explosive move which also does a minor bit of damage if it hits before it should. Ooh, why not have it so that the player can control when it explodes, completely negating the point? Or better yet, why force him to use it at all? A Snake player shouldn't have to commit to his projectiles like other characters. Of course there have to be two, you can't spam fast enough with just one. And for an added touch, why not make it so that it becomes active on the very first frame, and will explode if hit? That's not a totally stupid idea at all!" What an ***. As for the C4, WTF larger bottom hitbox?

That is all.
 

TP

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The biggest showcase of poor execution has to be the Snakedash, something that shouldn't exist at all, much the same as Wavedashing wasn't supposed to.
They knew about wavedashing before releasing the game, they just didn't realize how important it would become.

As for the rest of your argument, you are making one huge incorrect assumption. You assume that Sakurai WANTED the game to be balanced. However, this is clearly not true if you compare the new characters to the old characters. Old characters (characters who were in Melee) take the bottom 8 spots on the tier list. That is not a coincidence. New characters take 5 of the top 6 spots. In fact, there is data backing this up. Almost every newcomer has an airdodge that ends on frame 39, while every single old character's ends on frame 49. Almost every character has the invincibility end on frame 29. That means Sakurai made airdodging literally twice as punishable for old characters.

:034:
 

SaltyKracka

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That's an extraneous point, but I'll address it as well.

If you're making a fighting game, and Brawl is a fighting game, no matter how much the items and such take up the minds of many, you should always be aiming for balance. (unless you're including an unlockable boss character or something else completely over/under-powered, but these things tend to get banned or remain unused) If a game designer is making a fighting game and ISN'T aiming for balance, their whole design philosophy is totally flawed.

Short story short, if you're making a fighting game, and you're not aiming for balance as hard as possible (with the exceptions of joke characters), YOU SUCK.
 

TP

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I lawled at how ridiculously stupid that is. Since when has "party" been a genre?
Since Sakurai decided that competitive gaming was a bad idea because it led to hurt feelings, so he put in tripping and removed most combos.

Start adding :034: to your posts.

:034:
 

Noobicidal

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I lawled at how ridiculously stupid that is. Since when has "party" been a genre?
Wikipedia said:
The party game has become a genre of video games — arguably in 1982, with Starpath's Party Mix. Currently, the most well known example is the Mario Party series. These games are usually best played in multiplayer mode. The games are commonly designed as a collection of simple minigames, designed to be intuitive and easy to control. Some of the games (most notably the Mario Party series) are played out on boardgame boards.
Hurrah for the internet.

:031:
 

SaltyKracka

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Granted. However, Brawl does not fall into that category. It's a fighting game, pure and simple. There may be stages, there may be items, there may even be FS's, but at the very core, it's a fighting game.

And there's no excuse for not trying for balance in a fighting game.
 
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