Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[lil cj]

When does Lucas's bthrow kill G&W? I know Ness has the strongest bthrow, with Lucas close behind. I'm not sure if its a viable kill move in this matchup though.

At the edge of the stage bthrow will KO at about 107 %
and in the middle of the stage about 150%...its definitely not as strong as Ness' bthrow
But Lucas' dthrow is much better it has a vertical KO at about 125 %

 

[K@0S]

Even with bucket braking ?

 

[lil cj]

Im not familiar with bucket braking lol
Whats that??

 

[K 2]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207111 <- Bucket Braking.

 

[lil cj]

Wow thats cool
Imma start using G&W again

 

[Neb]

Wow thats cool
Imma start using G&W again

Oh, you little...

 

[lil cj]

lol...I used him in Melee

 

[Mr. Escalator]

So....you...basically just admitted to have never playing a good Lucas player. >_>

Uh... no? I said the one good Lucas who I would play regularly decided to make his secondary his main. He still uses Lucas, but I more often than not play his Jigglypuff.

 

[Neb]

lol...I used him in Melee

lol, sorry, then I take what I said back, :].

 

[Levitas]

Lucas's Bthrow isn't a good KO option. His Dthrow's better, though they both can be DI'd to an extreme degree. Also, his fsmash comes out in 3 more frames and has similar range to his grab, so it's usually just better to fsmash for the KO.

 

[Aurion Team]

GnW is like 70:30 with lucas
well thats my opinion because gnw can easly kill lucas with 65% and use the bucket to avoid PK fire spam
also GnW's grab game pwns lucas XD,Tech chase,hammers

 

[A2ZOMG]

Off topic: I'm just gonna say, this matchup is retardedly hard for G&W on wifi lag. Not that it means anything, but in an environment where it is much harder for G&W to Bucket or Shield or space on reaction, the matchup isn't bad at all for Lucas.

 

[PKNintendo]

If Ness is 7/3, should Lucas be 75/25, or 7/3?

Yes because Ness=Lucas.

G&W mains.
Only they can get off with posting crap like that.

 

[Levitas]

I think it's a 80:30 because the Sheik matchup is 60:30, and G&W got the extra 10 from the venue.

60:30 Sheik's favor, the other 10 goes to venue.

 

[K 2]

lol...

Anyways, I'll go with a 70:30 matchup advantage for G&W.

 

[Neb]

lol, what the hell, I was just comparing them because their play styles are fairly similar, and they lack in the same areas. Stop being a smart ***.

 

[_clinton]

lol, what the hell, I was just comparing them because their play styles are fairly similar, and they lack in the same areas. Stop being a smart ***.

I'm pretty sure I play Lucas differently then what I do with Ness...but whatever

Plus I'm also sure Lucas' recovery isn't as gimpable as Ness' is...and so on...

 

[PKNintendo]

Ness is more like 65:35 I think, Lucas being 7:3.

This man knows his stuff.

 

[_Phloat_]

Yes because Ness=Lucas.

G&W mains.
Only they can get off with posting crap like that.

I'll go find one bad post by one ness user and talk crap.

Lol, just ignore wrongness sometimes, it happens to the best of us. Lets keep discussing this.

 

[PKNintendo]

I'll go find one bad post by one ness user and talk crap.

Lol, just ignore wrongness sometimes, it happens to the best of us. Lets keep discussing this.

You'll be hard pressed to find that lol!

View Post
If Ness is 7/3, should Lucas be 75/25, or 7/3?

You are clearly implying that they are similar.

lol, what the hell, I was just comparing them because their play styles are fairly similar, and they lack in the same areas. Stop being a smart ***.

Their playstyles are incredibly different! Fairly similar? Do your research.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Hey PKNintendo, shut up.
Seriously, this isn't the Ness matchup, stop hijacking this thread because some people are making little quips about them being similar. They ARE similar. Ness is clearly better, but they obviously share common traits in areas.

You can wait for our matchup revisions when we finish all the characters to discuss Ness.
If you actually play Lucas and have matchup specific input, by all means, share it with us. Otherwise, it's sorta not helping things go by any quicker or smoother.

 

[Neb]

Did you just come in here to bash, I mean I was just giving out an idea, :/.
Lucas and Ness have similar movesets, and they work the same in the match-up.

• Ness - Fair (to punish bair)
• Lucas - Bair (to punish bair)

• Ness - Dair
• Lucas - Dair

• Ness - Uair
• Lucas - Uair

• Ness - Bair
• Lucas - Fair

• Comparable dtilts, fsmash's, PKT, PK magnets, grabs, etc.

And its not so much they operate alike in their playstyle, but that they're used, and punished the same way against G&W.

 

[PKNintendo]

Hey PKNintendo, shut up.
Seriously, this isn't the Ness matchup, stop hijacking this thread because some people are making little quips about them being similar. They ARE similar. Ness is clearly better, but they obviously share common traits in areas.

You can wait for our matchup revisions when we finish all the characters to discuss Ness.
If you actually play Lucas and have matchup specific input, by all means, share it with us. Otherwise, it's sorta not helping things go by any quicker or smoother.

Im not hijacking the thread, im just stopping incorrect info? Do I want to redo the matchup? Not really no. And if you think they're similar, than MK and Marth are similar. MK is clearly better, but they obviously share common traits in areas.

* Ness - Fair (to punish bair)
* Lucas - Bair (to punish bair)

* Ness - Dair
* Lucas - Dair

* Ness - Uair
* Lucas - Uair

* Ness - Bair
* Lucas - Fair

Lol. The same can be applied to pretty much any character.
Ness-Bair
Mario-Bair

Ness-fair
G&W-bair

See my point? Listing aerials isn't going to do anything worthwhile.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Neb, Ness and Lucas are completely different, but both terrible characters.

Lucas is about spacing and camping. Ness is more about following up. They both have subpar recoveries and don't have enough range or defensive options to be good.

Neither can safely deal with G&W's spacing, and they usually get ***** offstage.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Im not hijacking the thread, im just stopping incorrect info? Do I want to redo the matchup? Not really no. And if you think they're similar, than MK and Marth are similar. MK is clearly better, but they obviously share common traits in areas.

They actually do. They both have long ranged Dtilts that have IASA frames at the end, reversal upB's that work wonderfully OoS, and they also have a sword!!!

Seriously, Ness and Lucas are more similar than Marth and MK.
And this IS hijacking. I don't see you correcting any incorrect info, as people are right to say they are similar.

Also, your response to Neb is pretty bad. I don't see how Ness' and Mario's Bair really compare.

So shut up if you arent talking about the matchup or being constructive.

 

[Neb]

Lol. The same can be applied to pretty much any character.
Ness-Bair
Mario-Bair

Ness-fair
G&W-bair

See my point? Listing aerials isn't going to do anything worthwhile.

And that's why they're hard countered, . They're played the same against G&W, Lucas has more disadvantages than Ness, so why wouldn't the ratio go up a few points in G&W's favor, basing off the current match-up ranking? What is your point? I said their playstyles against G&W are the same, then you disagreed, and now you agree.

Neb, Ness and Lucas are completely different, but both terrible characters.

Lucas is about spacing and camping. Ness is more about following up. They both have subpar recoveries and don't have enough range or defensive options to be good.

Neither can safely deal with G&W's spacing, and they usually get ***** offstage.

I know. But against Game & Watch, they are played the same, they make use of the attacks in their moveset that are similar when fighting G&W.

 

[PKNintendo]

They actually do. They both have long ranged Dtilts that have IASA frames at the end, reversal upB's that work wonderfully OoS, and they also have a sword!!!

Seriously, Ness and Lucas are more similar than Marth and MK.
And this IS hijacking. I don't see you correcting any incorrect info, as people are right to say they are similar.

Also, your response to Neb is pretty bad. I don't see how Ness' and Mario's Bair really compare.

So shut up if you arent talking about the matchup or being constructive.

I was mocking the logic.

Alright, you want an honest opinion for this mathcup? Using my (limited) knowledge of Lucas, this is a bad matchup for him. Outspaced, out gunned, and G&W is a ***** to approach. Lucas has next to nothing going for him. (G&W weight being the only factor)

There, happy?

I know. But against Game & Watch, they are played the same, they make use of the attacks in their moveset that are similar when fighting G&W.

Wait until they redo the Ness matchup. Im tired of arguing with you.

 

[Neb]

lol...wow.

 

[PKNintendo]

Lol?

How did you do LOL.

10character limit?

 

[Neb]

G&W mains.
Only they can get off with posting crap like that.

^, That's how.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Lo l

 

[Neb]

Es c, xD

Edit: Can we move on?

 

[Levitas]

Disregarding the fact that I have a lower opinion of the people who made pointless and pretty much incorrect claims on the last page, NOTHING worthwhile has been posted.

Is discussion gonna continue on any front for lucas, or should I just not come back here?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

If Ness and Lucas play the same against Mr. Game & Watch, those would have to be some pretty awful players, probably the Ness players playing badly (Ness's forward aerial changes everything; it's so good!). Really, Ness and Lucas are very, very different. I don't want to get in a war with anyone over how good Ness and Lucas are so I'll try to focus mostly on what they do against Mr. Game & Watch.

Anyway, Lucas is pretty easy to beat, but he's not ridiculously easy or anything. Lucas has a VERY good down aerial which isn't especially effective against Mr. Game & Watch but is a big thing to look out for regardless. Lucas will use it to rack huge damage if you leave yourself open to it. Moving past Lucas's ace in the hole move, Lucas is mostly going to focus on answering what you do and being careful while trying to exploit his general high level of power. Lucas has a pretty solid pivot grab that he can kinda camp with to make spacing him tricky, and his shieldgrab with the long range tether makes him more difficult than average to shield pressure. His tilts are all pretty decent, and you always have to be careful of that fsmash which kills low. His down smash is something that's interesting if nothing else. It's not actually that good, but it hits in a really odd way that forces you to alter what you do defensively in front of him a bit to accommodate. Lucas can also use his nair kinda like Mr. Game & Watch uses his. It's a lot worse, but it's kinda fast and hurts if he snares you in it.

A lot of Lucas players make him look bad by focusing on bad offensive moves like up smash, Pk Fire, and Pk Freeze (all of Lucas's specials are bad except for recovery and energy projectile absorption actually). The general way Lucas goes about it, in short, is camping with his grab and safe jab/tilts while punishing with his strong fsmash and using the times he happens to be in the air to try to snare you with a few high damage moves. The fact that Mr. Game & Watch has a lot of flat out superior tools to prevent Lucas from taking the battle to the air really does limit him a lot (Lucas at least has pretty good aerial mobility so he can get down when the situation calls for it), but Lucas isn't particularly easier to beat than most other low tiers. All around he's probably 65/35*.

*HOWEVER, I should point out that it would be a total joke to ever give Lucas a better score than Ness; Ness is simply a radically bigger threat than Lucas could ever be. Lucas is indeed very different from Ness, but a lot of the reason is that in a lot of moveslots Ness either has a radically superior version of the move (uair, bair, bthrow, Pk Thunder) or a move really fundamentally different that's actually functional while Lucas's move in that place is either awful or just really limited (usmash, dash grab, fair). It really just lets Ness do a lot more to Mr. Game & Watch than Lucas can, especially in terms of being able to actually apply pressure instead of having to play mostly reactively. Lucas has a few things that are better, but they don't save him from being "the bad Ness" any more than Fox's stuff like that saves him from being "the bad Falco" (having a tether grab is really the only advantage Lucas has that is a big help against Mr. Game & Watch, though his ridiculously good recovery is nice too). Really, Ness should be 60-40, but since this isn't about Ness, I don't really want to lay out the case now. I'm not sure what I suggest putting in for Lucas's score actually, but whatever it is, it definitely needs to be a worse number than Ness has.

 

[_Phloat_]

Disregarding the fact that I have a lower opinion of the people who made pointless and pretty much incorrect claims on the last page, NOTHING worthwhile has been posted.

Is discussion gonna continue on any front for lucas, or should I just not come back here?

^^^

There you go. Problem with us is that while we don't know jack - **** about the mother boys, it won't stop us from posting. Don't mean to offend =[

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh, and just to prove that Ness vs G&W is HORRIBLE for Ness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf_psi2q3oA&feature=channel_page

Box7 doesn't even main G&W, and he's playing against one of the better Ness mains right there.

wtf at Ness vs G&W being 6/4 G&W...

 

[ColinJF]

Oh, and just to prove that Ness vs G&W is HORRIBLE for Ness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf_psi2q3oA&feature=channel_page

Box7 doesn't even main G&W, and he's playing against one of the better Ness mains right there.

I literally laughed out loud.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

To clarify, that Ness was very bad. He seemed to forget that Ness had a down aerial or Pk Thunder (the one time he used Pk Thunder as an attack he did a very bad job of steering it), and even more importantly, he forgot that spacing is an important thing to focus on to win at this game. Maybe he just didn't know the matchup at all and fell apart but is better in general, but just judging off that video, you were simply showing a decently strong player railroading a very weak player.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It was Fow. He doesn't have any excuse getting 3stocked.

http://allisbrawl.com/ladder/player.aspx?id=9835

 

[joedragon15]

omg no offense but whomever that ness is was a horrible ness. ugh. but yeah ness is way better than lucas tho. but as g&w`s we can over come them easily. all u really gotta do is watch out with ness`s fair and fsmash.