Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[halcyon.days]

Oh okay, I thought that might be what it was.

I just didn't know it had a name.

Okay, what are you guy's opinions of the Fox vs. Sheik matchup? I'm going to say that Fox has the advantage because of shine and grab combos?

 

[L__]

It depends on stage.

Specify please.

 

[halcyon.days]

It depends on stage.

Specify please.

Mm... I suppose DL64 or PS.

I realize that they're almost opposite in the fact their ceiling heights are on two extremes but...

 

[L__]

I'll PM you my answer in the morning.

Although, if you look around, there are some guides in the Fox (Character Specific) Forums.

 

[RaynEX]

Too tired to type a long answer, but I will tomorrow.

Poke: Stage transformations are easy to abuse. fire/rock can be used to waveshine. Platforms are good height for combos and not too big so its easy to chase with uair/bair. In general that level is **** for Fox.

Dreamland is big and you can run away and shoot lots of lasers. On the down side you can't kill her off the top at low percents. But w/e because edge-guarding her is hella easy.

 

[halcyon.days]

What are your guys' opinions on having more than one main?

ie. You have more than one character you're equally well at, and you switch it up whenever. I used to main Marth but during friendlies (and a recent tourney) I ALWAYS did better with Fox, so I switched to him as a main. Nonetheless I still want to play marth since his playstyle is completely different.

I realize that amount of time required to "bring up" two mains is more, but do you think it would be better to bring up both a marth and fox, as opposed to just a fox?

 

[CanISmash]

do w/e you want. you're going to lose one it always happens.
at least to me or a lot of people i know.

im semi getting c.falc back who i use to main, and trying to secondary sheik but its tough.

and i see this time as time that could've been spent improving your main.

edit is that brawl lover 2.0 over there?

 

[CanISmash]

double posty

 

[KirbyKaze]

Okay, what are you guy's opinions of the Fox vs. Sheik matchup? I'm going to say that Fox has the advantage because of shine and grab combos?

Just kick her once and then don't stop for any reason.

Tossing her above you is also acceptable.

 

[KosukeKGA]

A Marth throws you up on FD and keeps you constantly juggled with U-Tilts and U-airs.

As Fox, which way do you DI to get out of those dreaded U-Tilts and U-Aerials? :[

I do know though that at 20% from CG'ing, you can DI up and shine him. But if that fails...

So I need the advice. Thanks.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Inescapable Marth combos are inescapable.

DI behind after 63ish seems to prevent u-throw tipper. Of course, if they SHFFL Fair at you when you do that then you get put in a crap situation but it's a start.

For U-tilts, the issue is that it's dependent on positioning and stuff. But in general DI behind the U-tilt. Most Marths reverse the U-tilt to get regrabs, so just react and DI whatever direction he swings the sword in. He can usually still grab you, but it makes them work (more chances to mess up) and on rare occasions you can get away. The problem is that this can backfire if doing so would send you offstage but then it's simply a judgment call.

But yeah that's all I know about Marth throw stuff.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Kosuke, your avatar is amazing. Yuri Lowell=one of the most badass RPG protagonists in memory.

(Like everyone else in ToV, he could have had a better voice actor tho'.)

ANYWAY.

To further add on to your question, Kos:

Would you SDI out of it somehow? Or do you pray that Marth ****s up the CG?

Smooth Criminal

 

[KosukeKGA]

Yes, ToV kicks major ass.
---
I'll provide a video example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNwJ6F6E2f0

1:24-1:30
Watch as Taj pummels Forward constantly with those U-Tilts. Taj also does an U-Air to keep it going into that F-Smash at the end of the combo.

Now, my question is: Which way should Forward correctly DI to get out of that combo? I don't Taj would mess this one up.

I mean, this happens to me a lot and I try holding away but...meh. I suck. >_>

 

[KirbyKaze]

To escape the combo he would DI behind Marth. Unfortunately, that wasn't really an option seeing how doing so would send him offstage and probably into spike or F-smash (this is only referring to the first few U-tilts; the combo continued mostly because Forward lost his second jump when Taj hit him out of it with his U-air).

You can go really far from DIing behind Marth on U-tilts but there are risks involved. And many times (pretty much always) he can still combo you from that.

 

[KosukeKGA]

So then I would have to DI into the Marth's direction so Fox would get hit at a 45 degree angle downward?

That's what I'm trying to mainly get at since I've seen people do this before.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[KosukeKGA]

I want Fox to get hit into the ground so I can tech and escape. >.>;

But I think you answered my question with those editted posts...I'll try to work something out. Thank you, KAZAY.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You want Fox to go 45 degree downward angle after an U-tilt?

DI with Marth's U-tilt (ie. if he's swinging it left, hold your stick left) and down I guess. That's what I'd try.

 

[RaynEX]

If Marth utilts you and swings his sword up and towards the right, d.i. down+away in the direction he's swinging.

The only situation you should **** up d.i. on purpose is when you're about to get utilt -> daired off a platform or something. Either d.i. the utilt well so the dair can't hit you and make it back to the stage, or survival d.i. the utilt and hope Marth messes up.

Smooth: Most grabs can't be sdied. Only two that can are Jiggs'/Peach's Fthrow.

Marth's combos are generally inescapable. But there are things you can do to make them hurt less.

edit: pulled from a couple pages back when we discussed cgs -

Its called slight d.i.

Yes, it is true that forcing Marth to pivot grab is good. But most CGs in melee require some sort of d.i. in order for a combo opportunity to present itself.

Marth CGs Fox: If you d.i. left or right, Marth can fair, nair, tipper, re-grab. He can do a million and one things. Neutral d.i. isn't a whole lot better. But at least if he wants to tipper you he has to walk a bit and force it. D.i.ing during CGs is like handing them combos. Mind you, its good to mix it up sometimes - but on the whole, neutral d.i. followed by really good combo d.i. when they hit you is the best approach.

fox CGs Fox/Falco: If you d.i. left or right, they have the opportunity to re-grab, usmash, nair, bair....

but the problem is, they can do most of this with neutral d.i. anyway. The only advantage not d.i.ing brings to this situation is the fact that your trajectory becomes more random.

Sometimes if Fox nairs you or usmashes you during neutral d.i., you fly behind him or something. This could be due to a mistimed move or whatever, by my point still stands. Neutral d.i. reduces the chance of you getting super comboed. *imo*

What people normally do is:

Fox uthrow-> Falco d.i.s right -> Fox nair -> Falco "noooooo!!" d.i.'s towards Fox so he doesn't die -> Fox responds with a super duper star fox combo.

There is one recurring point I should mention when it comes to CGs.

The solution to the majority of them is usually to neutral d.i. and shine or jump. Marth @ 20% and above, Fox @ 55% and above, etc etc.

neutral DI helps you escape the CG itself faster, giving you a chance to shine or jump at higher %s. Most CGs on fox end a lot lower than most people think when they don't DI the throw.

 

[KosukeKGA]

...Neutral DI? ._.; I might not get this right, but...That is DI'ing upward, right?

I'm still not brushed up on this stuff. But thank you for all the information, Rayn!

 

[L__]

I thought neutral DI is when you don't DI.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

That's what I thought, too. (L)

 

[L__]

Yay.

/10yayyuhhz.

 

[RaynEX]

Neutral d.i. is when you don't d.i.

I should just call it 'no d.i.', honestly.

 

[L__]

I want Silent Spectre's DI.



4 Words: Nor-Cal Combo Video.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Not to be the grammar police but isnt that 3?

 

[L__]

North California is 2 words buddy.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

but but ubt...you hyphenated it

 

[KosukeKGA]

Ahh, I'm a fool. Thank you.

 

[halcyon.days]

I want Silent Spectre's DI.



4 Words: Nor-Cal Combo Video.

Yeah... SS's DI is scary as hell.

"Can't kill him vertically" or was it horizontally?

 

[Da Shuffla]

It's both. :D

 

[Brookman]

neutral directional influence is a misnomer.

 

[Flamin Roy]

Hey Jman
would you bring one of your
beaches(lol) to a tournament???????

 

[Stos]

Can NY and NE just live together in one gigantic smash house?

can i jion ?

 

[halcyon.days]

Okay, back to questions.

Dash attack. Leads to a lot of things like utilt or a grab (dependent on DI/%, of course)
But I basically don't dash attack. At all. I really want to start using it again, but I always think I'll get shield grabbed. I've actually realised I play really passively and I want to get rid of it. How much priority does the dash attack have?

Also, I can't wavedash backwards from shine (yes I've been practicing). Is this essential for a Fox to have?

 

[Da Shuffla]

It's not essential, but it can be very useful. Focus on pressing your jump button before you hold your direction for the wavedash. I haven't seen the dash attack used that much, probably because you can get shield-grabbed very easily. I would rather go for a shuffled Dair>shine>grab. If they shield. If I hit, I would probably just drill-grab.

 

[halcyon.days]

It's not essential, but it can be very useful. Focus on pressing your jump button before you hold your direction for the wavedash. I haven't seen the dash attack used that much, probably because you can get shield-grabbed very easily. I would rather go for a shuffled Dair>shine>grab. If they shield. If I hit, I would probably just drill-grab.

That's the thing, when I try and do it that way, it feels like I'm learning wavedashing all over again. Sometime I just do it naturally just by my normal finger movements.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

use dash attack to follow up a SHFFL nair, or somethig...dont just do it...especially if you see a shield..

 

[halcyon.days]

Why is it that when I see a Fox or Falco get knocked off the stage, they'll shine, then DJ then firefox/illusion?

Any point to the shine?

Also, I was watching Hai? vs. PewPewU (Luigi vs. Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_gDkO4mIyw&feature=channel

At around 0:25, he shines Luigi, then goes quickly into Phantasm (didn't look like an accident).
Luigi ends up popping up but he doesn't combo him anymore because he was off the edge.
So... Shine-> Phantasm = good?

 

[Wind Owl]

It's because Luigi slides really far and can't be wavegrabbed or whatever; you'll notice he missed the grab the last time he tried it. It looks like he doesn't really know what you can do to Luigi so he was just trying stuff out. Seemed to work, lol.