- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
i specifically told you about the hitlag thing changing the timing, bones. i said it was no different from changing your JC timing when hitting someone with shine in any other case.
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
you mentioned hitlag and I said "you already answered"
Machiavelli
Smash Apprentice
You guys probably get asked this all the time, but ... I'm having a hard time with shdl. I don't claw, and I use the y button pretty much exclusively for jumping.
So far, using up seems plausible, but I'm having a really hard time consistently short hopping this way.
Clawing doesn't work -- I can short hop doing this method but when I try to laser I guess my hand tenses up to much and I start full hopping.
Y to B just isn't fast enough, and I don't see this changing.
What do you guys like to use? Anyone have any tips/other methods that may be helpful?
Is it even worth it to learn anyway? haha
So far, using up seems plausible, but I'm having a really hard time consistently short hopping this way.
Clawing doesn't work -- I can short hop doing this method but when I try to laser I guess my hand tenses up to much and I start full hopping.
Y to B just isn't fast enough, and I don't see this changing.
What do you guys like to use? Anyone have any tips/other methods that may be helpful?
Is it even worth it to learn anyway? haha
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Not a mindset you should be in
Speed / precision shouldn't be a limiting factor unless you have like arthritis <_< it's just a matter of training your muscle memory to go faster / be more precise
...Not that SHDL is that hard ... or useful ...
If you're new (you sound new and you have 4 posts so I'm going to assume you are) learn how to move before learning random stuff like SHDL
Like ... really learn how to move
Figure out how to dashdance and incorporate wavedashes and wavelands into your movement naturally
Bones0
Smash Legend
Like Wenbo said, learning how to SHDL isn't really that important at top levels, and next to useless at low levels (probably worse because you won't be doing it properly).
Just to put your mind at ease though, I used to think the same thing about using Y -> B. I tried pressing it as fast as possible and wasn't even coming close. Then someone told me to SLIDE my thumb instead of pressing both buttons individually. If you practice sliding your thumb off the bottom left part of Y and running it into the top part of the B button, you'll see a drastic increase in your speed, and once you get comfortable with that motion, you'll be able to do it pretty consistently. Even without focusing a lot on doing it, I get both lasers out for about 90% of my SHDL attempts.
Just to put your mind at ease though, I used to think the same thing about using Y -> B. I tried pressing it as fast as possible and wasn't even coming close. Then someone told me to SLIDE my thumb instead of pressing both buttons individually. If you practice sliding your thumb off the bottom left part of Y and running it into the top part of the B button, you'll see a drastic increase in your speed, and once you get comfortable with that motion, you'll be able to do it pretty consistently. Even without focusing a lot on doing it, I get both lasers out for about 90% of my SHDL attempts.
Machiavelli
Smash Apprentice
@Wenbo: I'm fairly new, and recently my focus has been on improved dding and using wding to make my movement more smooth. I'm just looking for a couple techniques to freshen things up. I've been practicing ledgedashes and I was going to see if shdl was worth learning as well, although I had my doubts.
@Bones Thanks for the anecdote, I mostly made that post to see how others dealt with similar issues so that is really helpful. I have briefly tried sliding my finger, not on anyone's advice but simply because I wasn't having luck any other way. It hasn't been working so far but I think I'll try that more in a little bit here.
@Bones Thanks for the anecdote, I mostly made that post to see how others dealt with similar issues so that is really helpful. I have briefly tried sliding my finger, not on anyone's advice but simply because I wasn't having luck any other way. It hasn't been working so far but I think I'll try that more in a little bit here.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Ledgedashes are the **** I used to practice those constantly hahaha
Sometimes I wish I'd spent that time thinking about how to get dashdance positioning though <_<
Sometimes I wish I'd spent that time thinking about how to get dashdance positioning though <_<
Machiavelli
Smash Apprentice
Hah yeah that is probably more pragmatic but practicing spacing and approaches by yourself is ridiculously boring.
...ledgedashes can be ridiculously frustrating, but not necessarily boring.
...ledgedashes can be ridiculously frustrating, but not necessarily boring.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
thinkin about going to RoM
dunno if I can afford it lol
might go anyway
dunno if I can afford it lol
might go anyway
unknown522
Some guy
Uh oh
Rush
Smash Apprentice
hmmm I've always wonder why some great stuff in this thread never gets compiled or linked in the OP?There's a lot of great info but it gets lost in in the many pages of the thread. It kind of makes it tedious to search or it causes someone to ask an answered question.
unknown522
Some guy
Indeed
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Hey guys could some of you critique my friend's Fox and give him some advice? This was recorded yesterday, I apologize for the quality ;/ It's not actually too bad though. He's been doing pretty well, only been playing for 6 months.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwoeFIPG5x0&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzpsGeilyNU&feature=youtu.be
The 2nd matches quality is awful. Don't watch if you have epilepsy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwoeFIPG5x0&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzpsGeilyNU&feature=youtu.be
The 2nd matches quality is awful. Don't watch if you have epilepsy.
Stijn
Smash Cadet
How do I learn Shine into Bair?
_wzrd
Smash Journeyman
I like to practice it vs spacie cpus at about 80%-130% ish by doing an u-throw -> shinebair. it's really easy on lvl9s due to the way they di. make sure you hit them with the top of your shine (you should be UNDER them since shine hits them down anyway).
anyway, just space it right & do it really fast.
anyway, just space it right & do it really fast.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Trust me, you don't need this.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Use down-B -> jump with up on the control stick -> C-stick left/right.
Like Jazz said, spacing is the key. If you hit them in the middle of your shine, they'll be too low for your bair to hit.
PGH Carroll
Smash Master
Oh no. You WILL need this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy0GYdTobzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
any advice for my fox? I only really use it vs sheik and sometimes falcon and puff.
I want a back up for when people are more comfortable against Falco, or to cheese the last game of a set when my Falco gets downloaded.
any advice for my fox? I only really use it vs sheik and sometimes falcon and puff.
I want a back up for when people are more comfortable against Falco, or to cheese the last game of a set when my Falco gets downloaded.
What do I do against really aggro Falcons? I feel like I get ****ed up by Falcons who simply run up and nair.
_wzrd
Smash Journeyman
YOU DO IF YOU WANT TO STYLE LIKE A MOTHER ****ER
http://youtu.be/i71PTrk8RAQ?t=6m53s
jk
on the real, it isn't important with fox besides style points. it's useful in a handful of situations with falco & MUCH easier to execute.
_wzrd
Smash Journeyman
i'm by no means an expert, but if the falcon is just in solid rushdown mode, just nairing you in the face you can usually beat his nair with a defensive nair of your own. when he's coming at you kick him in the face. coming down on top of him with a big FH nair is good too. running away from him & doing a bair can get him off your ***. utilt is alright, but pretty predictable if your just standing there. as always, use your awesome dashdance to mix up your spacing.
I like to kinda go in and guess when he'd like to nair & just stuff him with one of my own, take away some of the aggro power, but sometimes you just gotta be on the defensive.
anyway yea, your fox though, so just dont let him in & combo his *** when you get a hit
I like to kinda go in and guess when he'd like to nair & just stuff him with one of my own, take away some of the aggro power, but sometimes you just gotta be on the defensive.
anyway yea, your fox though, so just dont let him in & combo his *** when you get a hit
when falcon nairs a lot just stand still and usmash him. its funny.
Doesn't Falcon's nair out-prioritize Fox's nair?
^ yes it does which is why i usmash falcon's nair.
you hit below the first hit and then since you usmashed falcon in the air you deal like a stocks worth of damage for free
you hit below the first hit and then since you usmashed falcon in the air you deal like a stocks worth of damage for free
Bones0
Smash Legend
Utilt .
utilt sucks. usmash master race.
unknown522
Some guy
Lol
lol /
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Usmash is good vs Falcon's nair. It's kind of risky though because if you miss then you missed an usmash. I usually aim to trade the usmash with Falcon's first hit (which has no knockback). It's nice too, because if the Falcon is a player who L-cancels by pressing the shoulder button hard, they'll automatically miss the tech and you get another usmash (or drill reset) into whatever.
unknown522
Some guy
What percent is this?
Most likely low percent.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Falcon's at a high enough percent that usmash puts him into tumble state (i.e. not 0%, but I think as low as like 20%?) and you're at a percent where eating one nair is not gonna faze you (so you're at a low %)
But yeah, you can totally just usmash his legs lol. They have hurtboxes too.
I dunno if the risk/reward is worth it and I only really do it when I'm super confident or when I'm up in stocks, I guess.
But yeah, you can totally just usmash his legs lol. They have hurtboxes too.
I dunno if the risk/reward is worth it and I only really do it when I'm super confident or when I'm up in stocks, I guess.
R2_GP
Smash Journeyman
try not to get grabbed, always keep the pressure on , running shine grabs works great against him!What do I do against really aggro Falcons? I feel like I get ****ed up by Falcons who simply run up and nair.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
TBH I think trading a nair or whatever on Falcon's first hit of nair is pretty easy and you get a tech chase a lot of the time or really good position and trade up in damage and he gets 4%
Vs bad Falcons it's super easy to u-smash them through nairs but good ones will fade really well so I don't like doing moves that have such a restrictive range of effectiveness. Particularly because u-smash doesn't even combo Falcon that well IMHO (except at low percent, but that's more because nothing else legitiately knocks over or works except shines if he's grounded and throw if it platforms him). I feel if he can't dash away or get his gentleman out before you reach him with an aerial when he's landed from something then he's in hot water because his remaining options blow.
As a side note, Falcon is so easy to tech chase after a 1-4 hit combo if you just kind of dribble him off the ground by a bit; I dunno why we wouldn't just spam that kind of setup for our punishment. U-smash's combo potential as soon as they can DI away > DJ to avoid having to tech becomes very fickle and requires smarts and planning. U-tilt and uair don't. Not really, anyway. Tragically they often do more, too. And his recovery sucks so the tech option games off nairs and crap are really easy. Just don't let him edgecancel > grab edge.
I suppose if he's cornered this is a super easy-mode strat vs nair but honestly I prefer a lot of things to u-smash because cornered Falcon's fade game is restricted and, once again, there are better combo starters. And hitting Falcon offstage is generally what you want to do anyway. Even if he's at like 20 if you force him to up+B you can do such stupid things to him if your execution is on point and it's goofy as fawk.
Not really disagreeing with Toph. It's fast enough to do reactively to nair. And it has conveniently placed hitboxes. I just wish he didn't like halt when he JCed into it >.>
Vs bad Falcons it's super easy to u-smash them through nairs but good ones will fade really well so I don't like doing moves that have such a restrictive range of effectiveness. Particularly because u-smash doesn't even combo Falcon that well IMHO (except at low percent, but that's more because nothing else legitiately knocks over or works except shines if he's grounded and throw if it platforms him). I feel if he can't dash away or get his gentleman out before you reach him with an aerial when he's landed from something then he's in hot water because his remaining options blow.
As a side note, Falcon is so easy to tech chase after a 1-4 hit combo if you just kind of dribble him off the ground by a bit; I dunno why we wouldn't just spam that kind of setup for our punishment. U-smash's combo potential as soon as they can DI away > DJ to avoid having to tech becomes very fickle and requires smarts and planning. U-tilt and uair don't. Not really, anyway. Tragically they often do more, too. And his recovery sucks so the tech option games off nairs and crap are really easy. Just don't let him edgecancel > grab edge.
I suppose if he's cornered this is a super easy-mode strat vs nair but honestly I prefer a lot of things to u-smash because cornered Falcon's fade game is restricted and, once again, there are better combo starters. And hitting Falcon offstage is generally what you want to do anyway. Even if he's at like 20 if you force him to up+B you can do such stupid things to him if your execution is on point and it's goofy as fawk.
Not really disagreeing with Toph. It's fast enough to do reactively to nair. And it has conveniently placed hitboxes. I just wish he didn't like halt when he JCed into it >.>
JPOBS
Smash Hero
dude, just uptilt him. uptilt and bair master race fox reporting for duty.
missing that upsmash is a good way to get yourself a cameo in I Killed Mufasa videos tho
missing that upsmash is a good way to get yourself a cameo in I Killed Mufasa videos tho
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Utilt serves an entirely different purpose because a) you have to be standing still to use it and b) you can't CC while doing it, which means you better ****ing hit. I was talking about running into a JC usmash vs. Falcon. KK's suggestion of just nairing to trade with Falcon's nair is more analogous.
I agree with everything KK said except that usmash doesn't combo Falcon well. Usmashing Falcon leads to knockdown which leads to everything that entails (techchase, or missed tech punish)
I agree with everything KK said except that usmash doesn't combo Falcon well. Usmashing Falcon leads to knockdown which leads to everything that entails (techchase, or missed tech punish)
JPOBS
Smash Hero
wel lyou can't really crouch cancel while running jc upsmash anyway, but point taken.
unless you claw the upsmash and cc with the control stick. 2013 fox metagame
unless you claw the upsmash and cc with the control stick. 2013 fox metagame
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
I do that. Or well, it's not necessarily the case that I CC, but I claw the usmash and I can react and CC if I see that I'm going to take a hit.