Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Bing]

Thats why Im asking, works fine in training and on cpus...

 

[Bones0]

So it DOES combo?

 

[Bing]

Yeah I just dont exactly trust things until I've done them on human players.

 

[EWC]

Drill def combos into everything. It works in training mode, it works on people.

 

[Strong Badam]

training mode allows 1 frame of leeway; 1 frame that could be a shine or shield.

 

[Bones0]

Someone should make an AR code to remove that extra frame.

 

[Bing]

training mode allows 1 frame of leeway; 1 frame that could be a shine or shield.

So it works because if they shield I can still grab them, and Jiggs doesnt Shine. So yay.

Uthrow drill,regrab uthrow and Uair/dair depending on percent. If dair regrab again? Then defs Uair?

 

[Strong Badam]

i don't even understand how you'd use training mode to determine drill grab being a combo; it doesn't count grabs

 

[Bing]

I said I tried it in Training and against cpus.. so I covered all the 1 person options possible I suppose XD

 

[Bones0]

You can easily catch Jiggs off guard with it once, but by the second uthrow they will definitely be DIing...

 

[unknown522]

On Jiggs can you uthrow dair and regrab at low percents? I tried this in training mode and on multiple CPU levels and it works, on them,I just dont trust that...

It might be able to combo. I know that u-throw -> drill -> u-tilt combos on her.

The only problem is how far they can DI away from you because they are getting drilled in the air, which is what will make neither of those work on humans much.

I say much because David got it on M2K in a friendly, and on Hbox in that $1 tourney. Then it never worked again from what I saw

Wait you can drill->drill spacies? I didn't realize it worked on them...

indeed. It's impractical to do though.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Drill can combo legit into dsmash lol. It's kinda good against falco by the ledge. o_O

Btw Strong Bad what is the frame count of the interval spanning the time you grab the ledge, and the time you can drop from the ledge? 8, right?

Also, me and SW recorded two Fox vs. Falco MM's and I put some filthy music over them. Please enjoy/critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfY7C5uAwpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5TeMN1vo98

 

[ShroudedOne]

For the ledge thing, yeah it's 8 frames.

(Not Strong Bad, but w/e)

 

[unknown522]

Drill can combo legit into dsmash lol. It's kinda good against falco by the ledge. o_O

Btw Strong Bad what is the frame count of the interval spanning the time you grab the ledge, and the time you can drop from the ledge? 8, right?

Also, me and SW recorded two Fox vs. Falco MM's and I put some filthy music over them. Please enjoy/critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfY7C5uAwpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5TeMN1vo98

awesome

<3

edit: at 0:42, if the opponent does firefox/firebird at that angle and if going for the ledge when coming down. If you miss the b-air, then what you alternatively could do dash attack immediately cuz the hitbox sticks out for so long. Then you could combo to something like d-smash, u-smash, shine, n-air, etc.

Still, the d-smash was still a pretty good choice, but just missed

 

[omgwtfToph]

YEAH I think I inputted the dsmash too late :x dash attack is a good idea though, and the length of the move probably makes it easier to hit with if he up-B's higher up and could potentially mix up fastfall/no fastfall. I'll remember that <3

 

[rokimomi]

So I'm tired of getting forced into a decision by techchasers (marth/falcon) to either sidestep or guess their next mixup (like them waiting for a grab or dashdance grab). How reliable a mixup is just running away after getting up?

 

[EWC]

Toph you hesitate too much. Your fox reminds me of mine in that regard.

 

[unknown522]

YEAH I think I inputted the dsmash too late :x dash attack is a good idea though, and the length of the move probably makes it easier to hit with if he up-B's higher up and could potentially mix up fastfall/no fastfall. I'll remember that <3

exactly. You get the point

 

[omgwtfToph]

EWC (especially if you're watching the first set) you're probably seeing me flub movements from inputting too early, but just in case, can you timestamp some places in the videos where you think I'm hesitating?

btw pikachu av, getting up and buffering roll is super legit if you aren't getting read. and running away is pretty good but pretty easy to punish. I'd say, try it and find out, then stop doing it if you get punished for it

 

[unknown522]

So I'm tired of getting forced into a decision by techchasers (marth/falcon) to either sidestep or guess their next mixup (like them waiting for a grab or dashdance grab). How reliable a mixup is just running away after getting up?

it's great if they think that you're gonna roll/sidestep and if they're too slow on the tech chase.

Also hitting them with a tilt is pretty good.


@ toph, 6:27 in the vid was another opportunity to use dash attack to cover his recovery.

Also, IMO you need more shine oos vs him.

edit: yo is that OoT mashup song MF doom rapping?

 

[Strong Badam]

Toph: Ledge grab animation is 8 frames for everyone but Link, 4 frames for Link.

 

[omgwtfToph]

@ toph, 6:27 in the vid was another opportunity to use dash attack to cover his recovery.

Also, IMO you need more shine oos vs him.

edit: yo is that OoT mashup song MF doom rapping?

thanks! definitely need to register dash attack in that situation. And yeah I really do. I don't have the habit of shining OOS after my opponent's shine when I'm getting shield pressured, so he'd keep doing deep aerials on my shield and when I tried to shine him OOS I'd get shined instead. Need to work on that.

and yupppp, it's from a mashup album called the Ocarina of Rhyme lol, look up "Team Teamwork" on youtube

Toph: Ledge grab animation is 8 frames for everyone but Link, 4 frames for Link.

score, thanks bro ^__^

 

[unknown522]

lol, that's pretty cool

 

[Strong Badam]

score, thanks bro ^__^

 

[KirbyKaze]

It might be able to combo. I know that u-throw -> drill -> u-tilt combos on her.

The only problem is how far they can DI away from you because they are getting drilled in the air, which is what will make neither of those work on humans much.

I say much because David got it on M2K in a friendly, and on Hbox in that $1 tourney. Then it never worked again from what I saw

indeed. It's impractical to do though.

Regrab never actually combos.

I kind of like dair as a follow up on Puff after you SHFFL uair on her during the low percent rest punish because your other aerials also have a low chance of leading to anything else. Since nothing really 'works', I figure you might as well go for the one that actually links to something decent if they herp derp (I also like the fact that you keep Puff close to the ground but simultaneously land before her; feels like it's a good position to be in). The random time you do like 13-16% with it is kind of good just for the sake of damaging her anyway.

Out of throw it's basically pointless. If you lobotomize your opponent mid-combo, you might be able to hit the legendary u-throw > dair > shine / up tilt > WHOAMAGOD **** but that requires herp derping on a level that's hilarious.

 

[unknown522]

yo, hbox got styled on for that one stock

 

[KirbyKaze]

Indeed. But after like 20% there's really no point to do it.

 

[EWC]

EWC (especially if you're watching the first set) you're probably seeing me flub movements from inputting too early, but just in case, can you timestamp some places in the videos where you think I'm hesitating?

I had only watched the first set when I said that. It went away after you were warmed up. I couldn't tell how much was missed inputs.

 

[unknown522]

Toph, I just watched the second set.

Needs more shine oos!!!!

but yeah, uhh there was this part I remember seeing where SW did 2 u-tilts on your shield on yoshi's (somewhere around 9:00). You could've grabbed either one of those, or u-smash oos. But you jumped over him instead

 

[KirbyKaze]

Drill can combo legit into dsmash lol. It's kinda good against falco by the ledge. o_O

Btw Strong Bad what is the frame count of the interval spanning the time you grab the ledge, and the time you can drop from the ledge? 8, right?

Also, me and SW recorded two Fox vs. Falco MM's and I put some filthy music over them. Please enjoy/critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfY7C5uAwpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5TeMN1vo98

I feel like you're just attacking your opponent all the time. Need to learn to back off sometimes.

Let them fight out of position sometimes; you don't have to give up your spacing for another swing all the time.

I think you miss a lot of punishes on whiffed moves and it likes stems from your desire to get back on the offensive.

It's okay to fish for moves - it's one of the perks of having a good position & spacing relative to your opponent.

My disclaimer is that I only watched the first set.

 

[Silent Wolf]

yea toph your fox is booty.

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ pretty much!

 

[omgwtfToph]

ya I like always fight out of position lol

sacrificing position to attack always seems like such a good idea beforehand and then I end up regretting it :(

 

[Silent Wolf]

yo toph your song choice on set 2 was *** btw

edit: if that set was good id reupload it with good music

 

[Sinji]

I would have put some Blue Scholars, Bob Marley or some Kendrick lamar on that set IMO.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i don't even understand how you'd use training mode to determine drill grab being a combo; it doesn't count grabs

You do drill > move that takes 7 frames

If drill > move that takes 7 frames works, then grab will also work

 

[knightpraetor]

"So I'm tired of getting forced into a decision by techchasers (marth/falcon) to either sidestep or guess their next mixup (like them waiting for a grab or dashdance grab). How reliable a mixup is just running away after getting up?"

2 frame window for them reacting to your stand up and being able to grab you regardless of what you do if they are in range.

even if they're wrong you are likely to get chased down and grab..stand up and spotdodge or stand up and run away are both ok as mixups, but you really want to just avoid that situation.

Also most marths can't distinguish between stand up and get up attack so mixing that in works well

also marth can achieve a spacing where he is out of get up attack range and then he can just react and grab you on all options..so just lying there gives them time to space

edit: just realized I probably answered a question he wasn't interested in. I thought he was talking about stand up after missed techs but he might be talking about options after tech in place

 

[chillindude829]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMPb_POBWRk#t=25s

brand new fox out of shield tactic

>_>

 

[DerfMidWest]

I've decided to take a kind of break for the next month and pretty much only practice techskill.
what should I be practicing (that would help my fox)?

I'm trying to get better at wavelands on platforms and ledgedashes, as well as get better at waveshining (which I can do pretty well now, but I still mess up sometimes) as well as getting drill shines down.
Also shinegrabs on shield.
maybe doubleshines on shield too.
anything else?

also, another question:
I use tap jump to SHDL. I haven't encountered any problems with it yet, but should I try to learn to do it with y or x instead?
I haven't noticed it limiting my ability to do anything.... so yea, its becoming a habit though, so I want to know if I should stop it before It become too hard to get unused to.

 

[Bing]

I havent seen any videos of you Fox lately HOWEVER basic things to work on from what I remember are just wavedashes, wavelands, drillshines, nairshines, waveshines. Dashdancing etc etc. These like that are crucial and from what I remember you have really choppy movement so working on these things are always a good start.