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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

...
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
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the west
*****es on my **** cuz i look like falco
young based fox comin straight with the up throw (damn whered you find that!?)
swag
 
Silent Wolf

Silent Wolf

...
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Jun 27, 2005
Messages
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the west
aight lets get back on track. yo fox's fthrow is **** at mid-high %s vs chars like marth/peach/pika/anyone similar. when i use it near the ledge people often seem to DI in and it combos into dash attack really well, which sometimes leads to bair/shine
 
unknown522

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
especially vs marth and sheik players at the edge. Sheik due to the lack of air mobility, but also because a lot of sheik and marth players will panic and try to f-air/u-air right away, and then that's a free shine spike. Once you condition them, then you can start doing things like taking the ledge after f-throwing them if you think that they're gonna wait for you, or just run off and shine if you think they're not gonna commit.

Oh yeah, vs falcon and ganon too. Makes it easier vs falcon since he's an FFer and all.

If they DI in at mid-ish percents, you can also try to f-tilt them and possibly catch their jump. But I mostly do that one in friendlies rather than tourney.
 
Bing

Bing

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
4,885
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St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Silent Wolf said:
aight lets get back on track. yo fox's fthrow is **** at mid-high %s vs chars like marth/peach/pika/anyone similar. when i use it near the ledge people often seem to DI in and it combos into dash attack really well, which sometimes leads to bair/shine
Click to expand...
As Pika, I've been di-ing down and in then throwing out a uair to try and trip them up.

Now that I know thats highly punishable, i should probably stop doing that.
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
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4,486
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San Jose
Drill doublejab usmash is the SSB64 Fox bnb lol.

Real talk though, drill jab usmash legitimately combos/works pretty well in Melee too. On good players. Maybe not out of a rest though since they'll be ready to SDI.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
ah i think i've asked this before, but can jiggs queue spotdodge or roll out of dair grab? i thought she could, but i think someone answered before that it combos if you do it perfectly or if they flip or something...just wondering which it was, so if i need to just work on timing or just be thankful if they get grabbed and di on't have to chase the roll
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
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Corneria, Lylat System
omgwtfToph said:
Drill doublejab usmash is the SSB64 Fox bnb lol.

Real talk though, drill jab usmash legitimately combos/works pretty well in Melee too. On good players. Maybe not out of a rest though since they'll be ready to SDI.
Click to expand...
Why SDI when you can just CC anything that isn't shine or grab -> rest?
 
Sangoku

Sangoku

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Apr 25, 2010
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What technique do you use to waveshine? I've always pressed down b, then moved to y. But I've seen a vid saying sliding from b to a to x was better. It is indeed faster, but I can't time the wavedash at the end =/. And on an opponent, I can't time the jump because of the hitlag...

Anyway, concerning shine cancels in general, is it better to always slide from b to x or is tapping b then x/y alright?

I'm a noob at this game by the way (I've never played any opponent that knew how to play the game...)
 
PK Webb

PK Webb

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Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,753
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the lab
use whats most comfortable for u....i use x personally but its more work to do aerial shines at 1st so i recommend y
 
Sangoku

Sangoku

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Huh if it's comfortable but slow is it better than adjusting to a faster method? What I meant is basically, should I slide or not? Both are comfortable, but in one case I'm not fast enough and in the other, I'm not consistant. So which one do I choose so I can train it?

I'm a bit surprised to see this "whatever is more comfortable for you" so often actually. I mean, there must be a technique better than another (one that is more often used, etc). For example in 64, if you want to SHDL you almost have to slide, doesn't matter whether one finds more comfortable to quickly press or not.
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
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Sangoku said:
What technique do you use to waveshine? I've always pressed down b, then moved to y. But I've seen a vid saying sliding from b to a to x was better. It is indeed faster, but I can't time the wavedash at the end =/. And on an opponent, I can't time the jump because of the hitlag...

Anyway, concerning shine cancels in general, is it better to always slide from b to x or is tapping b then x/y alright?

I'm a noob at this game by the way (I've never played any opponent that knew how to play the game...)
Click to expand...
Sliding isn't required, you can tap the jump buttons just as easily and achieve the same results. This doesn't mean "stop sliding", it means use whichever you like best.

You don't gain any definitive advantage from using one button over the other, but thinking about button proximity might help when performing certain techniques. Y is much closer to B than X is (for X you have to sail over the A button), so its often easier to use Y for waveshines, shine jump-cancels, and SHDLs. The distance between Y / B make it perfect for that sort of thing. Keep in mind, this is entirely dependent on preference and what feels more comfortable for your hand.

In order for you to make your waveshines more consistent, you have to find a style that works best for you. There isn't a list I can give you that details the most used method and why its better. I'm glad you're surprised about the amount of freedom you get when deciding this. My opinion is informed by my subjective experiences and what I think is most comfortable, as are the opinions you've heard thus far. Put the controller in your hands and form your own opinion and style, that's the best way to go about it.

Focus your attention first on how you wavedash. Does your finger positioning feel alright? Does it allow you to move freely and comfortably? If so, don't change it. Forget what combination you use (X/Y + L/R), because in the end it's all the same. Now all you have to do is focus on getting your thumb from B to whichever jump button you use, within the time allotted (e.g.: before hitstun deteriorates). You mentioned that you have problems wavedashing out of the shine once you've actually hit something. Go into Vs. Mode (or training mode), and grind it out until it's no longer an issue.

Practice up!
 
voorhese

voorhese

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Dec 22, 2007
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Gonna try to get my hands on new footage of myself doing a lot of friendlies with as many good people as i can b4 FC so I can get some advice!
 
FoxLisk

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
Sangoku said:
I'm a bit surprised to see this "whatever is more comfortable for you" so often actually. I mean, there must be a technique better than another (one that is more often used, etc).
Click to expand...
the level of tech skill necessary to be the best player in the world is still far below the point at which you have to optimize your grip to achieve. whatever execution technique you find most comfortable can be used to take you to that level, so whether or not there is a best way to execute something is irrelevant.
 
Sangoku

Sangoku

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Geneva, Switzerland
RaynEX: Thanks a lot, that's more the kind of answer I was looking for. I think I'll just practice with tapping then.

Bones0: by playing 64, I can slide from y to b without to many problems.

FoxLisk: I get what you mean, but I guess what I meant by "best way" was "easiest way".


Actually I'm afraid of having too slow fingers and being limited by that if I do the tapping method (limited in the sense I'll never get quick shines). Now if you're all saying it shouldn't matter, that's good.

Thanks again to everyone.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Sangoku said:
Actually I'm afraid of having too slow fingers and being limited by that if I do the tapping method (limited in the sense I'll never get quick shines). Now if you're all saying it shouldn't matter, that's good.
Click to expand...
If you're really worried about that, jumping with control stick is easier to be fast with jump OoS, but it's also harder to learn (with Fox anyways)
 
Brookman

Brookman

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Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
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pikachu
@:38 edge hop drill. lather. rinse. re.peat.

@1:03 he's at +100 percent. . .stop trying to shine spike and just nair/bair ;]

He is shield grabbing you so maybe work on your fast fall + Lcancel + shine

@~1:56 if you must insist on trying to shine spike, 1. Try to use invincibility and space + time it better. the move comes out in one frame. In this situation, I will recommend BACK AIR to edgeguard/set up more edge guards.

so again, either you want to win or you want to shine spike. Either way, power to you.

@3:48 . . .. edge hog + drill > edge grab > shine spike. E-Z
@354: same thing
and again at 442
 
L

Ltork

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
58
Thank you very much!

Yeah, my edgeguarding attempts were pitiful, I don't know why I was so stubborn with shinespike.
Ill keep BAIR in mind, it should help me with my edgeguarding quite a bit.
 
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