Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[rokimomi]

the powerful name stems from my hunger to completely destroy falcos for messing up shield pressure
I no longer feel it's adequate to simply reset the situation with a shine out of shield
make it standard guys, go practice

 

[unknown522]

Otto. I saw your sets vs blunted, Diakonos, and vish yesterday.

Good stuff

 

[Silent Wolf]

Otto. I saw your sets vs blunted, Diakonos, and vish yesterday.

Good stuff

ty. i have a mm with sion too but theyre taking like 3 weeks to upload vids. its ********.

i did some cool stuff on vish 2nd game lol

 

[unknown522]

Ooh. I'll definitely check out that mm once it gets uploaded.

I just re-watched my set vs Javi from apex. He got 8 shield stabs between my last 2 stocks (me having a near full shield every time).......anyone have some shielding advice? Cuz I never see anyone else get stabbed so excessively

 

[Redd]

Ooh. I'll definitely check out that mm once it gets uploaded.

I just re-watched my set vs Javi from apex. He got 8 shield stabs between my last 2 stocks (me having a near full shield every time).......anyone have some shielding advice? Cuz I never see anyone else get stabbed so excessively

That's pretty much what he did to me... I was confused. He pays real close attention to that kinda stuff. I was up two stocks too lol. x_x More shield angling? Something I for sure need to work on.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How exactly was he stabbing? with what moves?

 

[unknown522]

Word. So I'm not the only one this happens to.

It's been an on-going problem for me for a while and now that it's costing me more tourney sets, I gotta find out how to stop it from happening.

I've had different people tell me different things.

Those who told me to
Angle:
mango
Cactuar
Eggm
Bam
Vwins
Pkm vodka


People who told me not to angle:
linguini (he never gets shield-stabbed from what I've seen)
Lamchops (taught by linguini apparently)
M2K


Still. Some days it'll hold up prett consistently and other days it'll fail like 70% of the time (especially at tourneys) no matter which I use. I tend to angle when I need to though.


@ sveet: mostly n-air and b-air. Basically my plan was to shield so that I can knock him down with shine oos but then I got stabbed 8/11 attempts

 

[Silent Wolf]

Ooh. I'll definitely check out that mm once it gets uploaded.

I just re-watched my set vs Javi from apex. He got 8 shield stabs between my last 2 stocks (me having a near full shield every time).......anyone have some shielding advice? Cuz I never see anyone else get stabbed so excessively

it looks like you point you shield forwards often. that how he got you 1 or 2 times. also, be weary of you lower back legs when shielding on platforms cuz thats the spot poking out the most from your shield. sometimes your head can get poked from the back if your not pointing it back a bit even if its still pretty full. i get poked by shine -> bair repeat pressure by tophs fox sometimes cuz of this

 

[unknown522]

Alright Thanks.

Yeah I did notice one of the forward angles that I did, but I didn't know that it made a difference. It was on the left side of FoD near the edge iirc?

 

[kd-]

Thundaga is hilarious.

I get shield poked more than anyone I know/have seen, and I don't angle so angling may be the way to go.

Smash with shield poking/stabbing removed. Is it now a better/more competitive game?

 

[Wenbobular]

I get most of my shield pokes when people shield on platforms

 

[knightpraetor]

sorry to post this, but i've forgotten where i read the answer to this.

how does shield stabbing work exactly? The mechanics of it i mean? i personally angle to great effect, but I don't actually know what determines whether an attack shield stabs. If an attack hits any vulnerable spot does the attack stab through the shield...

or do hitboxes cancel out on shield collision?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

a hitbox has to hit your body but not your shield

 

[Bing]

Random question, is nair shining into upsmash a decent combo starter? I know its not no uthrow uair or anything but it atleast gets them up in the air...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if they don't CC the nair or shield, sure

 

[omgwtfToph]

yea but just make sure (against chars like falcon or sheik) that the nair doesn't put them in the air such that the shine sends them into the ground and they can grab you or do something immediately

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

oh i missed the "shine" part of that opening combo. I thought u were just talking about nair->usmash as a starter haha

 

[Bones0]

From what I can tell, if you are getting shield poked a lot sometimes and almost never other times, it's based on who you're playing. If you love being an *** in-game like me, you will go for shield pokes with almost every hit. I consistently go for (and land) shield pokes simply by consciously attempting them. The main problem with this is that you start relying too much on them and obviously by aiming at the outside of their shield, it affects your move spacing a lot.

If you're getting shield poked, the only two things you can really do are tilt your shield and light shield. Tilting your shield has the benefit of not increasing shield stun, but light shielding is obviously just hands-down better at preventing pokes. It also makes you slide, which can be either good or bad. Anyone who loves to abuse sliding off of platforms when they shield attacks should definitely consider implementing light shielding because it makes you slide further without the added stun, and you don't have to worry about trying to cover your entire exposed bottom by aiming a little bubble.

 

[Sinji]

Or you use shield dropping to avoid getting punished. It helps prevent shield poking to occur.

 

[Bones0]

Shield dropping doesn't do anything to help deal with the actual shield poke. You can't just shield drop if you're worried about a shield poke unless you predict it when they are really high above you or something, in which case you should be shielding in the first place. If they are close enough to threaten with a poke, shield dropping just guarantees that the move they were going to use to poke will hit for sure. You're usually better off light shielding to avoid the poke and then following up with a drop to punish their lag.

 

[Strong Badam]

a hitbox has to hit your body but not your shield

It can hit the shield and body on the same frame and it'll shieldstab.

 

[Bing]

For the nairshine u-smash. Could maybe adding a jab before the u-smash be better?

 

[Silent Wolf]

For the nairshine u-smash. Could maybe adding a jab before the u-smash be better?

it could be better, but it still wouldnt combo. the problem is that as soon you you nair them they go into the air a bit, so as soon as you shine them they hit the ground, which leaves them with only landing lag which would finish before your wavedash. so theyd be able to shield before you could do anything. nair -> shine is only good on shields and characters who fall from shine

 

[Bing]

Okay because Ive been messsing around with the nair-shine usmash on computers of all shapes and sizes and I've done it consistently,I've just been shortening my wavedashes to basically cancel the shine but still get a bit of distance.

 

[Cactuar]

The shine is only really thrown out there in case of CC or shield. The right response if you land a nair like that and they pop up is to not shine, or if you do and hit them into the ground with shine, wavedash down and pressure, don't attack.

There are very few situations where you should be using nairshine as an initiate/launcher. Shine kills the combo immediately. The only people who get caught with stuff after the shine forces them into normal landing are the ones who don't know better.

As a Fox player, it is dangerous to get into the habit of doing this. Especially if you go up against a Marth who knows it and forces that shine reset. If you drill into a good Marth's shield, they will know to jump into your drill, eat the shine, and then spam grab while you foolishly try to wavedash forward to connect when you have a -8 frame disadvantage at minimum. They will spam grab out of the nairshine instinctively and land grabs for free.

 

[Bing]

So basically what I got from that is that I should be nair shining at all? I got the idea from the Wombo Combo when Tang shine u-smashes, and I found I could get them at the right height from nairing, however I do understand what you're saying.

 

[EWC]

You should still be shining after nairs sometimes, just not as a staple combo starter.

 

[unknown522]

So.....new topic people

 

[ShroudedOne]

So...why do Foxes nair shine so much?

 

[unknown522]

Cuz it's good!

 

[ShroudedOne]

But Cactuar just said that it shouldn't be used as an initiator...am I missing something?

 

[JPOBS]

So basically what I got from that is that I should be nair shining at all? I got the idea from the Wombo Combo when Tang shine u-smashes, and I found I could get them at the right height from nairing, however I do understand what you're saying.

What tang does in that combo and what you're talking about are two different things.

Like cactuar said, nair->shine->wavedash->upsmash is usually a bad idea because of all the reasons he said.

You nair->shine to protect yourself in situations where you expect/read/anticipate a shield or crouch cancel, or vs characters that shine will knockdown. Its obviously good and you should do it, but its also important to know when its good, when it will directly link to more moves, and when you need to NOT shine after the nair and do something else.

If you're baller enough to land nair ->shineupsmash (tang) consistently then go right ahead. just be aware that it won't work at lower percents (because the nair won't hit them high enough) and its a bad option at mid percents because your combo ends and they don't die. You could do a million better things than shineupsmash at mid percents.
Better off using it at kill percents only.

 

[Lovage]

But Cactuar just said that it shouldn't be used as an initiator...am I missing something?

i barely read cactuars post but i'm pretty sure he was talking about combo starters not approaches

as in: nair is an amazing approach (and u can shine after it if they block)
but nair shine isn't a combo starter

 

[unknown522]

From personal experience, I sometimes use n-air -> shine on marth and sheik. I punish the landing lag after they get popped up from the n-air, so that I still get the waveshine combo.

Technically, it's not a true combo but I do it from time to time.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh, ok. I see, now. Yeah, I don't really try to "combo" with nair, so much as I try to approach. Thanks.

 

[bell---]

Ok.. this is my first comment and i hope u all great And awesome fox-players can help me with the only thing that keeps me stuck in my fox gameplay.. i mastered some techniques like wavedash, waveshine, double shine, triple shine, a lot of ledge tricks and u know what i mean, almost everything about fox.. the only problem in my gameplay is the "short hop" maybe stupid question but.. what can i do to master this super important part of the fox gameplay? Sometimes i get it but im always failing perfect moments and thats the reason.. i can't "short hop" when i want.. I NEED HELP!!! Is there any tricky way to do this or what? Just help please! And thanks.

 

[Bones0]

The shine is only really thrown out there in case of CC or shield. The right response if you land a nair like that and they pop up is to not shine, or if you do and hit them into the ground with shine, wavedash down and pressure, don't attack.

There are very few situations where you should be using nairshine as an initiate/launcher. Shine kills the combo immediately. The only people who get caught with stuff after the shine forces them into normal landing are the ones who don't know better.

As a Fox player, it is dangerous to get into the habit of doing this. Especially if you go up against a Marth who knows it and forces that shine reset. If you drill into a good Marth's shield, they will know to jump into your drill, eat the shine, and then spam grab while you foolishly try to wavedash forward to connect when you have a -8 frame disadvantage at minimum. They will spam grab out of the nairshine instinctively and land grabs for free.

How do you jump into a drill or even know if they will drill instead of nair?

Ok.. this is my first comment and i hope u all great And awesome fox-players can help me with the only thing that keeps me stuck in my fox gameplay.. i mastered some techniques like wavedash, waveshine, double shine, triple shine, a lot of ledge tricks and u know what i mean, almost everything about fox.. the only problem in my gameplay is the "short hop" maybe stupid question but.. what can i do to master this super important part of the fox gameplay? Sometimes i get it but im always failing perfect moments and thats the reason.. i can't "short hop" when i want.. I NEED HELP!!! Is there any tricky way to do this or what? Just help please! And thanks.

If you have mastered triple shine, SHing should be really easy... >_>

You just need to let go of the jump button before you leave the ground. Simple as that. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[bell---]

ok

How do you jump into a drill or even know if they will drill instead of nair?



If you have mastered triple shine, SHing should be really easy... >_>

You just need to let go of the jump button before you leave the ground. Simple as that. Practice, practice, practice.

All my drills and nairs are with full hop, i have good mindgames i feel good but not enough because i can see what would i do if i master the SH but well i still envy everyone that mastered this.. thanks bro. I think the problem is my stupid right hand in this case.. i'll practice more!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey guys is this a good combo starter? Up tilt --> up air / nair --> ???

 

[Bones0]

I love turning around so my back is to my opponent then WDing into utilt.