Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[voorhese]

All my drills and nairs are with full hop, i have good mindgames i feel good but not enough because i can see what would i do if i master the SH but well i still envy everyone that mastered this.. thanks bro. I think the problem is my stupid right hand in this case.. i'll practice more!

SH happens when you hold down the button for a shorter amount of time than a full hop. The reason I say this is because my friends thought it had a pressure sensor or something >_<. The way I fixed their problem was teaching them how to slide off of the button (I use x). When I 1st started I couldn't short hop very well either, so learned to SH by hitting next to my x button by going over the edge of the x button and sliding off of it. It really helped back then. I can SH by putting my whole thumb on it now, because I know the timing, but I suggest trying to slide off of the button to do it at first. Like I already said I told myself to aim for a spot a little off to the side of my X button, and by getting to it I went over the X button to emulate the sliding off of the button I needed. Hope this helps, and I am always glad to see new players!

 

[Bones0]

Ewwww... X button. >.>

 

[voorhese]

lol. I don't buy into that whole it is more efficient to use the Y button thing. I can double shine with x, so i don't think it matters to much.

 

[Beat!]

Yay, X button!

 

[Bones0]

But can you Javi shine with X? :3

 

[Bing]

I dont understand that... I can double and triple shine but not SH...

On another note, KK mentioned Utilt as a combo starter.... I really do need to utilt more, I know its good.

Inb4KKmentionsItriedToftilthimonce.

 

[Bones0]

I dont understand that... I can double and triple shine but not SH...

Everybody lies.

 

[Bing]

I was figuring as much. Kinda sad really..

 

[ShroudedOne]

I can short hop, but I can't do anything other than single shine.

 

[Bing]

reading stuff like that makes me feel better about my tech skill XD

Sorry Shrouded XD

 

[voorhese]

I dont understand that... I can double and triple shine but not SH...

I never said I can't short hop. lol.

 

[Bing]

Never said it was you there we were talking about was it? lmao

 

[FrootLoop]

X is fo suckas

 

[voorhese]

Guess not. But the way bones replied to it, by saying "everyone lies" made it seem like you were insinuating it. lol. I don't get how people say that either. I do flub jc upsmash sometimes though =P

 

[Bing]

Ok.. this is my first comment and i hope u all great And awesome fox-players can help me with the only thing that keeps me stuck in my fox gameplay.. i mastered some techniques like wavedash, waveshine, double shine, triple shine, a lot of ledge tricks and u know what i mean, almost everything about fox.. the only problem in my gameplay is the "short hop" maybe stupid question but.. what can i do to master this super important part of the fox gameplay? Sometimes i get it but im always failing perfect moments and thats the reason.. i can't "short hop" when i want.. I NEED HELP!!! Is there any tricky way to do this or what? Just help please! And thanks.

This is what we are talking about Jason.

 

[voorhese]

Yeah, I replied to him with some advice.

 

[bell---]

Hey guys is this a good combo starter? Up tilt --> up air / nair --> ???

Sounds good but it depends Whois your oponent.. against falco in 20 - 25 % it u can combo.. up tilt --> short hop up air --> up tilt --> up smash and if u can --> up air and lasers when he falls or just lasers after the up smash.. i like that combo..

 

[FrootLoop]

I'm a fan of bthrow techchase drill waveshine turnaround utilt nair nair nair weak bair fsmash shinespike.
It's the only combo I ever do. What do you guys think?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I dont understand that... I can double and triple shine but not SH...

On another note, KK mentioned Utilt as a combo starter.... I really do need to utilt more, I know its good.

Inb4KKmentionsItriedToftilthimonce.

50% of your moves thrown out are f-tilt and f-smash ._.

 

[Bing]

Legit I rarely f-tilted. Yes I did Fsmash too much, I've almost completely stopped now, so thank you for that little note

 

[FoxLisk]

I'm a fan of bthrow techchase drill waveshine turnaround utilt nair nair nair weak bair fsmash shinespike.
It's the only combo I ever do. What do you guys think?

dsmash is better

 

[KirbyKaze]

What do you guys think about his down tilt?

Seems randomly useful.

 

[unknown522]

Meh. It's ok I guess

 

[Lovage]

dtilt is pretty good, lots of really small places to use it where it's better than any other move by a bit.

i'm liking ftilt more and more btw. obviously not on stage, but it's actually pretty useful in certain spots when you're edgeguarding spacies/falcon. stick out your ftilt when falco up+b's above the ledge and fastfalls down, you'll be surprised at how many times it'll nick them right before they grab the ledge. if you know the spots it's good in, it can be a great way to slap them out of a tricky recovery and force them to do a crappy one below the stage.

 

[unknown522]

F-tilt is copywrited by unknown522

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

at smym13 I used ftilt more than I'd ever used it before. It was used almost as often as bair for ledge guarding. It is very low risk, fairly high reward, and if you're positioning yourself well and planning out 2-3 seconds ahead of what's happening, you can put yourself in a spot to make a big play without risking anything

 

[unknown522]

I dunno about low risk. Lots of characters can hit you for missing

 

[KirbyKaze]

I sometimes finish combos with something --> f-tilt and then jump out and try to shine them. The low KB and cooldown makes it actually pretty easy to follow if you poke them off the level. It's even easier if they don't have their double jump.

I think f-tilt is actually really good against a lot of low tier characters because they tend to have really crap approaches. But because Fox is amazing he doesn't really have to bother with that kind of gimmickry and can stick to good moves like back air and dash dance.

 

[Sinji]

Hey foxes. How do you edge guard Marth?

 

[unknown522]

I sometimes finish combos with something --> f-tilt and then jump out and try to shine them. The low KB and cooldown makes it actually pretty easy to follow if you poke them off the level. It's even easier if they don't have their double jump.

I think f-tilt is actually really good against a lot of low tier characters because they tend to have really crap approaches. But because Fox is amazing he doesn't really have to bother with that kind of gimmickry and can stick to good moves like back air and dash dance.

Indeed

 

[knightpraetor]

As a Fox player, it is dangerous to get into the habit of doing this. Especially if you go up against a Marth who knows it and forces that shine reset. If you drill into a good Marth's shield, they will know to jump into your drill, eat the shine, and then spam grab while you foolishly try to wavedash forward to connect when you have a -8 frame disadvantage at minimum. They will spam grab out of the nairshine instinctively and land grabs for free.

i'm a little confused as to what is being talked about. doesn't drill shine give them frame advantage unless you smash DI to the side to get away?

at first i thought you were talking about how landing on the ground from an aerial shine resets your stun, but then wouldn't the marth jump out after fox's dair? thats' what i do

 

[genkaku]

Grab the ledge. Shine spike him during invincibility if he's below you. If not, JC the shine into a firestall. Repeat until he is about to up-B. Shine bair; if the shine misses, the bair should hit (at low %s you can DJ into shine for more KB). If he up-Bs onto the stage as you are stalling with Firefox shines, just LH a bair to knock him back off. Be ready for ground tech rolls and simply punish with fsmash (you should be close enough that you won't have to move).

Things to keep in mind that you will probably mess up when you try for the first time:

1. REACT to up-B. Don't get scared and roll. When you get good at managing your invincibility, you will rarely have to worry about it anyway. At really low %s, even if he hits you with the non-sweet spot, you can still easily LH out of the super low stun and bair him off.

2. REACT to side-Bs and DJ fair attempts. If you are managing your invincibility right, you should never be threatened by this. Right before he gets in range refresh your invincibility, then shine-bair (shine in case he FFs, bair in case he relied on hitting you or if he up-Bs). If he is too low to hit you with either move and doesn't have a DJ, DO NOT ROLL. REACT. If he side-Bs or DJ fairs you while you are invincible, obviously just shine spike (would still just shine-bair just in case you somehow miss the shine).


If he is recovering too high for any of the above to be guaranteed, guard the ledge without grabbing it. Be close enough that he cannot just fall to the ledge without getting baired. If he side-Bs, REACT with FH bair. Trades easily. Fair is harder to trade with, but only if you react really slow and he gets the low hitbox out. If they are ballsy enough to dair, either get to them with a bair before they get it out in time or shield it and bair OoS. If they air dodge perfectly, your bair will whiff, so FF to the ground asap before he does. Shine, or if you have time, bair/dsmash to knock him back off. Shine and bair are the best if you can hit him before he lands and regains his jump.

Basic Examples:
0:44, 3:00
3:10
1:15, 1:40
1:10

quoted for quote (re:sinji)
also, that shielddrop at 3:13 vs king of cereal was mad pretty, bones

 

[Bones0]

Javi's dtilts are crazy, and there's definitely room for others to improve with it. Even basic stuff like waveshine dtilt instead of Thunder's comboing every time is way better vs. chars that fall over.

quoted for quote (re:sinji)
also, that shielddrop at 3:13 vs king of cereal was mad pretty, bones

That's DJ, but thanks. :D

 

[Sinji]

lol I didn't see the post before. Thanks though, :D

 

[bell---]

SH happens when you hold down the button for a shorter amount of time than a full hop. The reason I say this is because my friends thought it had a pressure sensor or something >_<. The way I fixed their problem was teaching them how to slide off of the button (I use x). When I 1st started I couldn't short hop very well either, so learned to SH by hitting next to my x button by going over the edge of the x button and sliding off of it. It really helped back then. I can SH by putting my whole thumb on it now, because I know the timing, but I suggest trying to slide off of the button to do it at first. Like I already said I told myself to aim for a spot a little off to the side of my X button, and by getting to it I went over the X button to emulate the sliding off of the button I needed. Hope this helps, and I am always glad to see new players!

U can't imagine how usefull Was this for me... im not perfect but wow finally my sh is working :Cool: what bones0 and you jason told me was all i needed to improve my gameplay importa getting better now thanks a Lot guys..

 

[bell---]

About my comment u said..

Everybody lies.

I was figuring as much. Kinda sad really..

This is what we are talking about Jason.

My comment was not a lie.. even for me and all my friends (they can't double shine) was so funny see me double and triple shining but almost never short hopping.. But jason teached me a great method "slide off" the button and now i know what was happening to me.. the thing is that when we double shine obviously we sh but my problem was when i was needing to sh for drills or any air atacks.. when we whavedash the jump (in my case "full jump") is cancelled and in shines the jump is cancelled by other shine.. my problem was -the jumps that are not cancelled- i hope u can understand i wasn't lying.. thanks for the help guys.

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

bell great use of emoticon, really

10/10

 

[bell---]

bell great use of emoticon, really

10/10

Hahaha! ありがとう! (Thanks)

 

[Cactuar]

i'm a little confused as to what is being talked about. doesn't drill shine give them frame advantage unless you smash DI to the side to get away?

at first i thought you were talking about how landing on the ground from an aerial shine resets your stun, but then wouldn't the marth jump out after fox's dair? thats' what i do

Jump right before getting shined. You are aerial. You get shined. You immediately hit the ground and only have landing lag. I have no idea what you think I was talking about.

 

[Bones0]

So shield the dair and jump into the shine? That makes way more sense. lol Will you even get off the ground if Fox shines asap after the dair?