Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Lovage]

dam my bad bro LOL

 

[leffen]

nps :0

btw your fox is extremely smexy, I hope to see more vids soon ;D

 

[Silent Wolf]

LOL. dont make lovage not wanna post in here D=

to add to the shine oos disc..there are often times where a falco or even a different character will go for a read and it will get shielded, enabling fox to use waveshine oos effectively whereas other options would be much less effective potentially. waveshine oos can def be very useful to have just in case.

a lot of the time i dont see myself needing it though. on platform stages, if i get a shine oos that hits ill second jump out of it and waveland on the platform and prepare to tech chase them. this actually works pretty reliably, whereas a lot of the time in tournament i may mess up waveshine oos because the timing is much more demanding. though i bet if i practiced it and got it back i could do it lol. i also always ban fd, so i always have plats at my disposal =P

as for vs sheik, between her utilt hits may be a good time to waveshine oos

 

[FoxLisk]

as a falco main i gotta say i love yoshi's vs fox. and i hate fd vs fox. so maybe im just insane.

 

[Thanos828]

falco also has his cons in terms of recovery on bf. he cant tech shines and also has the same problems fox does beyond that. i think bf is pretty even, i myself just dont like it as much as other stages.

which falcos have you talked to about this? what do you mean by "fox can **** from pretty much any platform?" fox can do most of the same platform combos on all stages with them. unless by "from" you mean from above, which imo isnt actually that good unless used very sparingly and not at first chance. stuff similar to sh nair over them from a platform comes to mind for that situation.

the lasers can make it easier to back fox into a corner or into a risky jump on the platforms/double jump (bad zoning) since the stage is smaller. once hes cornered he has a lot less flexibility.

like i said before, i think it comes down to preference which usually comes from play style.

From platforms maybe "*****" was a bit of an exaggeration. It's more the potential threat he is coupled with the ability to get to the top platform to avoid lasers. Nair and bair from platforms are what I had in mind.

And there aren't really any notable players in my town lol but I've talked with my resident Falco player and he tells me all the time that he feels kinda restricted on YS. His concerns make sense, I guess.

So yeah I guess if the Falco player doesn't feel limited by the lack of space then YS is certainly doable because of platform height and stuff. It just doesn't seem like the best choice to me, is all

 

[ciaza]

hey all, sorry for the random intrusion. i tried my best to find the answer to my question using the search feature and the stickies and what have you but to no avail, so i thought i might as well ask here.

basically, i'm having trouble waveshining on characters. that is to say, i can waveshine relatively fine on air, but when it comes to doing it on say, captain falcon, i am unable to. my method is holding down on the control stick, hitting B to shine, Y to jump and then L to wavedash. the problem occurs when i shine and then hit Y but fox does not jump. i looked at the guide and it said to make sure i am holding the Y button long enough so the game registers the jump - same probem. i figured it might be that i am pressing jump the same frame as shine, but even if i leave some hearty frames in between the jump and shine i get the same problem.

i am unsure what i am doing wrong and wondering if hitting a shine on characters changes the frame data and messes up timing (hence why i can waveshine in thin air but not on characters), sort of like how in 64 hitting a drill intentionally slows the game down for the character to DI.

i play on ntsc version.

thanks in advance to anyone that helps me =)

 

[FoxLisk]

hey all, sorry for the random intrusion. i tried my best to find the answer to my question using the search feature and the stickies and what have you but to no avail, so i thought i might as well ask here.

basically, i'm having trouble waveshining on characters. that is to say, i can waveshine relatively fine on air, but when it comes to doing it on say, captain falcon, i am unable to. my method is holding down on the control stick, hitting B to shine, Y to jump and then L to wavedash. the problem occurs when i shine and then hit Y but fox does not jump. i looked at the guide and it said to make sure i am holding the Y button long enough so the game registers the jump - same probem. i figured it might be that i am pressing jump the same frame as shine, but even if i leave some hearty frames in between the jump and shine i get the same problem.

i am unsure what i am doing wrong and wondering if hitting a shine on characters changes the frame data and messes up timing (hence why i can waveshine in thin air but not on characters), sort of like how in 64 hitting a drill intentionally slows the game down for the character to DI.

i play on ntsc version.

thanks in advance to anyone that helps me =)

when you hit someone with any move, there are a certain number of frames where, for the purposes of this exercise, the game freezes. its based on the damage your move does and whether or not its electric. for shine its, i dunno, 4, 3, 5, who cares.

so if you can wavedash as soon as possible out of a shine on air, you are as much as 2-3 frames faster than the game is willing to register an input after your shine. basically:

shine on air:

1: shine
2: jump
3: airdodge

shine on opponent:

1: shine
2: hitlag (as its called)
3: hitlag
4: you can now jump

---

so my numbers are mostly bull**** but the point is the timing is necessarily different, so you have to learn it separately.

you'll see players occasionally waveshine back and forth asap between stocks but thats actually not as important a timing to know as the timing for doing it after you hit someone. as in, imo, its better to do your whiffed waveshines a little slow than to do your hit waveshines too fast and not actually WD. just learn the timing on an opponent. get a lvl 1 link or peach and waveshine it a million times and youll get it down.

 

[Druggedfox]

It's all preference.

If you want to ride falco's ***, pick Yoshi's. If you want to camp the hell out of him, pick DL64. If you want to camp the hell out of him with platforms, but not give him that much room either... battlefield. If you don't need platforms to fight falco, pick FD.

 

[4 Aces]

hey all, sorry for the random intrusion. i tried my best to find the answer to my question using the search feature and the stickies and what have you but to no avail, so i thought i might as well ask here.

basically, i'm having trouble waveshining on characters. that is to say, i can waveshine relatively fine on air, but when it comes to doing it on say, captain falcon, i am unable to. my method is holding down on the control stick, hitting B to shine, Y to jump and then L to wavedash. the problem occurs when i shine and then hit Y but fox does not jump. i looked at the guide and it said to make sure i am holding the Y button long enough so the game registers the jump - same probem. i figured it might be that i am pressing jump the same frame as shine, but even if i leave some hearty frames in between the jump and shine i get the same problem.

i am unsure what i am doing wrong and wondering if hitting a shine on characters changes the frame data and messes up timing (hence why i can waveshine in thin air but not on characters), sort of like how in 64 hitting a drill intentionally slows the game down for the character to DI.

i play on ntsc version.

thanks in advance to anyone that helps me =)

Foxlisk said it better, but you have to do it a little slower; there's 3 frames of hitlag when you hit them with your shine. Pretty marginal, but it's enough to mess up a move like this one...where you need pretty good precision to do it fast and smoothly, but not too fast.

 

[ciaza]

thank you both greatly for the fast and informative responses, that clears everything up.

 

[FoxLisk]

Foxlisk said it better, but you have to do it a little slower; there's 3 frames of hitlag when you hit them with your shine. Pretty marginal, but it's enough to mess up a move like this one...where you need pretty good precision to do it fast and smoothly, but not too fast.

thank you for both the compliment and the actual number i'll remember that for like a week and then next time someone asks me you can correct me again haha

 

[DanteFox]

why aren't people waveshining oos, powershielding lasers and ledgedashing without shine guys.

we be mad scrubby.

once we catch up in tech skill fox will annihilate falco imho.

I can ledgedash without shining. So that's 1 out of 3. ^_^

Wait ledgedashing is wavedashing onto the edge right? If so then yeah I can do that.

 

[Winston]

edit: Winston did you read my post at all?

Heh, I didn't read it carefully enough apparently. I basically skipped a lot of it because the beginning was talking about jabs, which aren't really legit even without shine OOS. My bad.

I'm having a hard time picturing it, but I'll have to take your word for it I guess.

 

[4 Aces]

thank you for both the compliment and the actual number i'll remember that for like a week and then next time someone asks me you can correct me again haha

No problem. lol Only reason I remember is because I used to use AR to infinite wallshine characters frame by frame for fun...

>.>
<.<;;

I can ledgedash without shining. So that's 1 out of 3. ^_^

Wait ledgedashing is wavedashing onto the edge right? If so then yeah I can do that.

Yeah, that's right. I can't help but feel like it ought to be called ledgelanding, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Brookman]

wave shining with L is broken
[/size

no pun intended

 

[omgwtfToph]

...pun?

Is the pun the fact that your avatar is L? >.>

 

[4 Aces]

What does the phone thing stand for? Or is it just an indicator that it was posted via mobile?

 

[Brookman]

the pun is being blatantly ignored

 

[PK Webb]

i shine ledgedash =( but i puts me in the mentality that i just waveshined some1 so my follow ups feel more natural

 

[Strong Badam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5l1WNcdU3c GFs of a tourney last weekend. I came from losers so it's 2 sets. I went exclusively Fox in them. Critique if you want but I for the most part know where I need to improve.
I also feel I was playing a lot better in certain parts of Doubles too lol

 

[Thanos828]

What's the best way to practice drillshines?

I usually can perform them with like 7-8 out of 10 consistency during an average match but it's been really bugging me lately and it's basically the largest part of my techskill that's outstandingly bad at the moment.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Are you flubbing them because you're trying to combo drillshine into drillshine (in which case it could be your opponent DI'ing out) or are you missing the L-cancel, or the short hop, or what? If it's any of the latter then the answer is just practice more. and more and more and more.

Hey, so I attended a tournament in Norcal and got a few recorded tourney sets. Kinda need some critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvNGRTuNqsM vs Boback
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWpqxJjxS74 vs Dajuan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cez06UjcCQ vs SFAT

Unknown522 you should watch my set with Dajuan and yell at me about vs. Doc stuff plzkthx.

 

[Thanos828]

Lmao at the irony in the end of the set vs. Boback

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

ahh toph i got so hype watching you play sfat, at first i thought he was gonna do work but you definitely changed my view on that in the very first match

i got upset though you seemed like you lost 100% effort/momentum in the later matches.

 

[leffen]

Lovage/Silent wolf:

Do you have any tips for linking smooth moonwalks/reverse moonwalks?

pretty please ;o

 

[Thanos828]

Are you flubbing them because you're trying to combo drillshine into drillshine (in which case it could be your opponent DI'ing out) or are you missing the L-cancel, or the short hop, or what? If it's any of the latter then the answer is just practice more. and more and more and more.

A little bit of both cases.

 

[omgwtfToph]

ahh toph i got so hype watching you play sfat, at first i thought he was gonna do work but you definitely changed my view on that in the very first match

i got upset though you seemed like you lost 100% effort/momentum in the later matches.

Yeah, I know what you mean looking back. I didn't fight as hard as I should have to clench out my lead. Both of our punishes were kinda sloppy in the set though, I'm already seeing that, and the commentators (Sheridan lmfao) talked about it. I gotta focus way harder on hitting guaranteed punishes/techchases.

From the point of view of SFAT I think he was initially a little shook because he didn't think he'd lose the first match, then when he started getting momentum back he kind of ran with it.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Lovage/Silent wolf:

Do you have any tips for linking smooth moonwalks/reverse moonwalks?

pretty please ;o

i havent tried doing regular multi moonwalks (falcon style) with anyone but falcon, so cant help with those.

by reverse moonwalks i think you mean the multi sticky walks, where you do a moonwalk then turn around slowly while moving back then repeat. i can help with those.

in terms of current human capabilities, how much momentum you get really depends on how well you do your first sticky walk (how far you go before turning around). to go the furthest you can, do the best moonwalk you can, then find the timing so you can do the next motion (same motion as moonwalk to activate sticky walk) as late as possible. then there is a window before you are completely turned around where you can cancel this animation by dashing in the other direction. its a small window, and where the window is in relation to activating the sticky walk (time wise) is proportional to how far you went with the initial sticky walk. as soon as you cancel the sticky walk with a dashing in the opposite direction you turn that into another moonwalk, then that into another sticky walk and repeat.

it is possible to go further and further with each sticky walk, but usually i find myself (a human and not tas) going less far with each one. idk, maybe its possible to do it that good as a human. i stopped doing it cuz it makes my sticks too loose in a bad way.

 

[voorhese]

it's possible to double moonwalk with out stickywalking as fox, I can do it sometimes. The window for the second moonwalk is pretty small, and im not even sure when to do it, it's more of a feeling thing.

 

[Redd]

Yep. I sometimes can get 4-5 off if I'm playing on enough.

SW is right though... it'll kill your stick FAST.

 

[leffen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKIrME_quRc&t=3m

lovage does it here.

 

[Silent Wolf]

nice. yea i havent practiced that one

 

[Veetaak]

omg. Lovage does some impressive stuff. Definitely showing why I love melee.

 

[Sinji]

What is the best way to practice teams with a cpu using the potential character your partner will be using in the future?

 

[crush]

What is the best way to practice teams with a cpu using the potential character your partner will be using in the future?

Cross the border to america

 

[Veetaak]

crush is so cute <3

EDIT: Devil's post count

 

[Erasor.]

Cross the border to america

Would we safely assume that you have no skill and your a troller. Keep the nonscence on another site. this is a fox discussion.

 

[FoxLisk]

Cross the border to america

haha +1

 

[Thanos828]

Cross the border to america

Lmao

Oh Crush

 

[Dark Hart]

Cross the border to america

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9hg0uMwUrI