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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

S

Smasher89

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Saw alot of discussion about shine waveland(shinedash?) from the ledge to use the invisibility onstage and that using a shine would be a "much worse" option due to losing the frame.
Shine done from the ledge should always be done at the same height so no "heigt frames" lost there due to fastfall.
Something to add about its predictability:
Add in perfect (or just fast) shine>up-b can be used similar to how Taj's Mewtwo up-b stall>recover when not expected. Thats two things that cacn be used imidiatly after the shine right there, making it a bit less predictable.
 
trahhSTEEZY

trahhSTEEZY

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Lovage said:
falco can be pretty hard here's some tips

don't get CC shined
don't fall for the same laser grab setups
learn to recover in a way that minimizes your chances of getting dair'd or dsmashed at low percents cuz you can't tech them until like 40 or w/e

kill him every time he's forced to up+b below the stage (this means knowing how to cover tricky angles when you don't have time to shine)

maximize your damage off grabs
NEVER try to grab unless it's 100% guaranteed (either ur confident in your reactions in a tech chase or you got a sick read)

-
at mid-range distance, use your dash dance to make him scared to laser, and then stuff him with nair when he does unsafe lasers

be hella good at maneuvering with your shield, use your shield as little but as effectively as possible, and learn how to wavedash oos after lasers as fast as possible. powershielding is good but the important part about it is that you shielded and WD'd out hella fast, not that you reflected a laser

use platforms to make falco chase you and put himself in a bad position, but don't CAMP platforms predictably to where he can easily bair you out of your jumps

be good at shine oos. this means knowing when to punish him when he messes up his spacing and ALSO knowing when to give him credit in his spacing and NOT try to shine oos (don't be cocky)

know when it's time to do a kooky uair. uair is a high risk high reward move that can easily turn the match in your favor if you can finesse your way into hitting one (if ur clever you'll find it hits more than you think)

don't get flustered cuz falco can kill you really easy off the edge for making mistakes (see: me vs. shiz from last year or w/e LOL)

don't get discouraged cuz falco can do like 60% cuz you didn't time your grab right or he CC'd your nair

play an adaptable style that knows when to bait his approaches with bairs/grabs, when to rush him down with nairs and when to use platforms to bait his jumps.



good luuuuck
Click to expand...

ahh this was so good

"NEVER try to grab unless it's 100% guaranteed (either ur confident in your reactions in a tech chase or you got a sick read)

don't get discouraged cuz falco can do like 60% cuz you didn't time your grab right or he CC'd your nair "

these have been the worst parts of my play with falco..attempting nairs constantly in the simpliest situations with the low percents..and thinking i can just run up and grab falco since i'm fox..

thanks a bunch yo.

edit;

i actually have a question ive been meaning to know for awhile, kinda stupid that i don't know this but..

during a techroll from any character, i think i heard that you can grab/hit the character a few frames before they're out of the tech roll..is this true? like if i can read a tech roll early enough for a grab/hit, and if i don't time it too early, can it be 100% guaranteed even if they try and spot dodge?

if this is true, it'd make me alot more confident in my grab game..cause alot of times i think i attempt to grab the second the roll ends, and then ocassionally theyll spot dodge in time..
 
Winston

Winston

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trahhSTEEZY said:
during a techroll from any character, i think i heard that you can grab/hit the character a few frames before they're out of the tech roll..is this true? like if i can read a tech roll early enough for a grab/hit, and if i don't time it too early, can it be 100% guaranteed even if they try and spot dodge?

if this is true, it'd make me alot more confident in my grab game..cause alot of times i think i attempt to grab the second the roll ends, and then ocassionally theyll spot dodge in time..
Click to expand...
Everybody's techroll lasts 40 frames and is invincible for the first 20 frames of it. So it's not just "a few frames"; the entire second half of the techroll is vulnerable.

So yeah, react away.

Source:

- http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5896012
- (also common sense from playing the game)
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

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Ok, so some good information for anyone who is interesting in getting consistent at chaingrabbing:

So a while back, a friend recommended that I go into training mode, set an enemy space animal to "Escape" and then if you grab and uthrow, they'll DI in such a way that you can practice chaingrabbing. So I set the opponent as Falco and gave it a try. Didn't work - Falco would only ever DI straight up (well, not at all).

I finally found out where I went wrong: turns out if you set the computer to Fox, not Falco, and set the CPU mode to "Escape" the CPU Fox WILL DI away from you. I have no idea why computer Fox DI's away and computer Falco doesn't. Maybe computer Fox wants to help a fellow Fox practice chaingrabbing, but computer Falco is a ****ing ******* like every other Falco. Makes sense to me.


Edit: Also, thanks unknown. Good to hear your surgery went ok.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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Lovage said:
learn to recover in a way that minimizes your chances of getting dair'd or dsmashed at low percents cuz you can't tech them until like 40 or w/e
Click to expand...
for dair: when the % after the hit is 50% or higher
for dsmash: 46%
Winston said:
Everybody's techroll lasts 40 frames and is invincible for the first 20 frames of it. So it's not just "a few frames"; the entire second half of the techroll is vulnerable.
Click to expand...
Pichu's and Pikachu's are invincible frame 1-24. Otherwise, correct.
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

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omgwtfToph said:
Ok, so some good information for anyone who is interesting in getting consistent at chaingrabbing:

So a while back, a friend recommended that I go into training mode, set an enemy space animal to "Escape" and then if you grab and uthrow, they'll DI in such a way that you can practice chaingrabbing. So I set the opponent as Falco and gave it a try. Didn't work - Falco would only ever DI straight up (well, not at all).

I finally found out where I went wrong: turns out if you set the computer to Fox, not Falco, and set the CPU mode to "Escape" the CPU Fox WILL DI away from you. I have no idea why computer Fox DI's away and computer Falco doesn't. Maybe computer Fox wants to help a fellow Fox practice chaingrabbing, but computer Falco is a ****ing ******* like every other Falco. Makes sense to me.


Edit: Also, thanks unknown. Good to hear your surgery went ok.
Click to expand...
You know how when you set em to escape/evade and when you approach em they try to jump over you?

If you wait until they are about to land, but before the actually land, and grab em at that point, they should full DI away. try that method with falco.

not sure if they continue to DI for multiple regrabs tho
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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In my experience, pummeling between throws usually gets them to DI. I don't need to practice CG's anymore though so I'm not sure.
 
unknown522

unknown522

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omgwtfToph said:
Ok, so some good information for anyone who is interesting in getting consistent at chaingrabbing:

So a while back, a friend recommended that I go into training mode, set an enemy space animal to "Escape" and then if you grab and uthrow, they'll DI in such a way that you can practice chaingrabbing. So I set the opponent as Falco and gave it a try. Didn't work - Falco would only ever DI straight up (well, not at all).

I finally found out where I went wrong: turns out if you set the computer to Fox, not Falco, and set the CPU mode to "Escape" the CPU Fox WILL DI away from you. I have no idea why computer Fox DI's away and computer Falco doesn't. Maybe computer Fox wants to help a fellow Fox practice chaingrabbing, but computer Falco is a ****ing ******* like every other Falco. Makes sense to me.
Click to expand...
yeah, you can't practice on computer falcos for CGs. You can make him DI behind you once by grabbing him at the edge, but then afterwards he won't DI the next throws.


Edit: Also, thanks unknown. Good to hear your surgery went ok.
Click to expand...
thanks man.

Druggedfox said:
Played pp in fox vs falco in tourney... Probably gonna post random thoughts when I get home

:phone:
Click to expand...
cool.

Brookman said:
PC Chris lost to Jman in the finals of no johns yesterday and this was recorded, as far as I know.
Click to expand...
cool.

Strong Bad said:
for dair: when the % after the hit is 50% or higher
for dsmash: 46%
Click to expand...
You can tech a strong d-air starting from 34-38% depending on stale moves, and You can tech the weak d-air starting from 37-42%. Since d-air is falco's main move, there's usually enough stale moves for the strong d-air to be techable at 36%

You can tech the d-smash starting from 32-36%. people don't use d-smash often unless it's to kill, so it'll usually be fresh.

This is all before the hit, so it's pretty much the same as you said.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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unknown522 said:
You can tech a strong d-air starting from 34-38% depending on stale moves, and You can tech the weak d-air starting from 37-42%. Since d-air is falco's main move, there's usually enough stale moves for the strong d-air to be techable at 36%

You can tech the d-smash starting from 32-36%. people don't use d-smash often unless it's to kill, so it'll usually be fresh.

This is all before the hit, so it's pretty much the same as you said.
Click to expand...
For weak Dair, the after the hit % is 56%, before hit of 47% fresh.

I'm actually calculating the hitstun for the tumble threshold so I'm thinking my values are more accurate Ryan LOL
 
unknown522

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I'mma make a long writeup about those matches. But right now I have people over.

Also playing D2.

For now: You stand still way too much, and let him hit you when you try to camp him.
 
Brookman

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I must say, after some testing today, you can move surprisingly fast out of the shield drop animation.
 
D

Druggedfox

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Yeah, you can easily platform cancel aerials out of shield drops...not that that'll come in handy, just an indication of the speed

/random technical stuff
 
Brookman

Brookman

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I literally mean dropping your shield. not isai dropping stuff. wtf is a platform cancel?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (6 members and 1 guests)
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D

Druggedfox

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Oh... just letting go of your shield? >_>

A platform canceled aerial is where you hit the opponent with an aerial while falling through the platform, but you still land on the platform due to how the game mechanics read a standing/landing animation.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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give or take a few frames. For fox his wd oos is faster, but for someone like bowser dropping the shield would be faster.

[collapse=exact frame drop data]
Code: 
Shield Release Recovery Time - this rates how much of a lag there is after you release the shield button (R, L, and sometimes Z).

Group A
---14 frames recovery time
---3 characters: Jigglypuff / Peach / Zelda

Group B
---15 frames recovery time
---14 characters: DK / Dr. Mario / Falco / Fox / Ice Climbers / Kirby / Link / Luigi / Mario / Ness / Pichu / Pikachu / Sheik / Young Link

Group C
---16 frames recovery time
---8 characters: Bowser / Captain Falcon / Ganondorf / Marth / Mewtwo / Mr. Game & Watch / Roy / Samus

Group D
---17 frames recovery time
---1 character: Yoshi
[/collapse]
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Actually it is pretty pointless to shield stop unless you are shielding or jumping.

anyways, i thought it was funnier in that vid when juggleguy was running around the platforms and m2k shield grabbed in place over and over and on like the 5th one he happened to jump into it.
 
Brookman

Brookman

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9:21 is the time stamp. I also found that hilarious.

anyway, if you think shield stopping with jumping or blocking is useless then you are also not very creative :urg:
 
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