Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KAOSTAR]

RaynEX commin wit his modly duties lol.

I dont recall double shining being frame safe either tho. Only peach has frame perfect shield pressure that I know of.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Define "frame perfect shield pressure"

joe I take offense to that

I'll have you know I once waveshined into U-smash

That's good enough for me :D

Raynex that's not enough detail and you're holding out on me

 

[Jim Morrison]

Frame perfect screw that **** just say do itttt

 

[Sinji]

what should i do after i finish chain grabbing fox and he has a chance to jump or attack? any advice?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Jump after it but don't attack and wait for the jump, then just follow him as he has no jump.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I thought that peach could fair to jab repeat and if done frame perfectly the defender was in shield stun the entire time. I heard that like two years ago from this dude.

if its not true somebody just tell me so I can stop believing in a lie lol.

but tell me somewhere else cuz this is the fox boards

 

[Silent Wolf]

Jump after it but don't attack and wait for the jump, then just follow him as he has no jump.

change ur name

kline it looks like my falco pooped out your avatar

 

[Jim Morrison]

change ur name

I sent the PM already, I'm just waiting for it to happen.
It's gonna be so good bro just wait.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I thought that peach could fair to jab repeat and if done frame perfectly the defender was in shield stun the entire time. I heard that like two years ago from this dude.s

the ****????? hell no LOL. just think about what you just said for a second. fair takes a long time to come out, among other things. peach gotta swing her crown like behind her head before the attack even comes out.

who told you that ****... ill kill em

you can shield grab after the 2nd jab. there's a bit of a mixup (is she going to do the 2nd jab/when is she going to go for the grab) but there are definitely holes. no one has an unstoppable jab in this game. except idk pikachu i guess lol

 

[Brookman]

I'm fairly certain you can shield grab the fair.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thanks Otto. A little disappointed tho, Id much rather be fox poo.

Toph-And I meant nair, not fair my fault. and actually the person who told me that was shane lol.

 

[omgwtfToph]

bird **** is white. foxes are mammals and probably have brown poo

edit: brookman, you can't shieldgrab a float cancel fair most of the time

 

[Brookman]

nah, im pretty sure you can.

 

[TemPesT-]

prolly depends on how high peach is floating

 

[RaynEX]

RaynEX commin wit his modly duties lol.

I dont recall double shining being frame safe either tho. Only peach has frame perfect shield pressure that I know of.

I meant multishining. Multishining can't be interrupted by anything.

I thought that peach could fair to jab repeat and if done frame perfectly the defender was in shield stun the entire time. I heard that like two years ago from this dude.

if its not true somebody just tell me so I can stop believing in a lie lol.

but tell me somewhere else cuz this is the fox boards

Again Toph beat me to it. Do you know how much time it takes to jump after the jab, float, then fair again? That's probably enough time for two sidesteps. You can definitely escape that ****.

nah, im pretty sure you can.

Sorry Brookman, you can't shield grab after the fair. Unlike most characters, Peach's FC takes away that silly hindrance we've come to know as lag. Her fair retains all the block advantage, plus it has no landing lag. She can move freely (and thus jab), before you can even get out of your shield. Even if she does it high it won't matter. Fair becomes a giant mix-up the moment you block it.

If you can sit patiently and call that jab coming, you can grab her after it like Toph said.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Well it not being true doesnt hurt my feelings lol. But I meant nair not fair but probably doesnt change anything.

also auto shield DI wiill get you out of even advancing multi-shining with a running start well b4 you are in any sort of danger of a shield break or anything. So multi shining is never a threat, simply holding away gets you out of it. You dont have to worry about interrupting it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I thought that peach could fair to jab repeat and if done frame perfectly the defender was in shield stun the entire time. I heard that like two years ago from this dude.

if its not true somebody just tell me so I can stop believing in a lie lol.

but tell me somewhere else cuz this is the fox boards

that's ******** and wrong completely

fair --> jab is safe

the big gap between jab and fair is not safe

same applies for nair --> jab or bair --> jab or any other form of peach fc pressure

there's even a gap between frame perfect fc nairs albeit it's only like 5 frames so you can't punish her

 

[KAOSTAR]

Just to be completely sure since everyone has commented on me ****ing up and saying fair>jabs instead of nair>jabs.

nair>jab jab repeat is not safe correct?

 

[omgwtfToph]

uhhh btw I'm honestly just curious haha, but is pikachu's like, hyper rapid jab un-shieldgrabbable? >_> that **** looks so scary whenever I see Axe do it

and yea nair jab jab nair jab jab isn't safe either. since about a month or two ago, I always try to shieldgrab peach after i see the 2nd jab and so far it hasn't failed me

 

[Rubyiris]

Just because you play a character doesnt mean you have a right post in the boards.

If you dont have anything useful, helpful, constructive then you shouldnt be here. Not saying every post has to be a +1 but overall you should be a positive respectful member of the board.

Just dont be a butthead, especially for no reason. ppl are here to learn, if you dont wanna be apart of that process you can bounce.

I have every right to post here.

Problem?

uhhh btw I'm honestly just curious haha, but is pikachu's like, hyper rapid jab un-shieldgrabbable? >_> that **** looks so scary whenever I see Axe do it

and yea nair jab jab nair jab jab isn't safe either. since about a month or two ago, I always try to shieldgrab peach after i see the 2nd jab and so far it hasn't failed me

The rapid jab beats out your grab. You're basically forced to either take 50% if you're near the ledge, or shield DI away.

 

[KirbyKaze]

uhhh btw I'm honestly just curious haha, but is pikachu's like, hyper rapid jab un-shieldgrabbable? >_> that **** looks so scary whenever I see Axe do it

it can't be shield grabbed

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik is really straight-forward. Pretty stark contrast to the aesthetically-pleasing, "dynamic" stylings of Fox - as you so aptly put it a few weeks ago. The interesting thing about Sheik is how simple her strategies look, but how intricate they actually are underneath. I know you're going to come back and post a sarcastic rebuttal detailing the things you have time for while edge-guarding (coffee, showers, dinner, eating babies, etc), but lets be real. As much as you downplay the cool inescapable edge-guards she's capable of, we all know that **** is hard.

(and annoying as hell )


David stop being a banana. Fox combos are easy. If you hit a dair and land behind your opponent, utilt easily combos. You get to combo into everything Fox normally can, plus utilt. Its a good feeling. Do dumb things like that.

Sheik involves so much waiting.

Fox can sort of spazz on people with dynamic entry. Granted you can't do it like too often, but you can still do it sometimes which is kind of a nice option to have. I also find his movement is better for covering ground quickly and punishing holes in sloppy defenses or movement. Whereas Sheik... winds up waiting a lot.

Sheik's strategies are sort of complex I guess but I tend to think they're about the same as most other top tiers. You have a lot of options that open up depending on what you do.

Purely because you said you expected a sarcastic reply, I'll make a serious one because I'm feeling informative today. Sheik's edgeguarding is easier than the other top tiers, I think. Combination of ledgehop sex kicks (like a space animal) that regrab the edge (not like a space animal), plus Marth's ability to drop with an aerial into another aerial offstage for gimps, in addition to having a projectile with the ludicrous recovery-eating priority is... a very powerful mix. Her Up+B also grabs the edge fast from a variety of ranges and many of her moves (notably Bair) have areas that are always weak hitbox, which makes it easy to create untechable edgeguards. Because of her body positioning it's also easy to hit people away from the stage while being untechable, which is good.

Not sure if it's better than Fox's or Marth's or whatever but she seems, at least to me, to have the easiest edgeguarding vs low recoveries (on the whole) and she can jump out pretty far, pretty easily vs high recoveries. Her hitboxes are also huge and stay out for a while depending on what move you do so it's easier than hitting a Shine spike or whatever.

Bernie I drillshined to turn around U-tilt. Then Uaired. Aren't you proud of me? :D

 

[FoxLisk]

I have every right to post here.

Problem?

Yeah, and we have every right to point it out when you are being a ****, which is usually.

Problem?

 

[Rubyiris]

Yeah, and we have every right to point it out when you are being a ****, which is usually.

Problem?

Oh hey, people are starting to realize that I troll when I don't have anything productive I need accomplished.

Welcome to 2009.

Learn to ignore my obvious troll posts and you'll be good.

 

[Tomacawk]

didn't read anything (I never do in this thread anymore), but peach's fair on shield has huge advantage for her. She can actually fair->grab you before you can shine or spotdodge. It's a real combo.

 

[KirbyKaze]

edit:

frame math is hurting me i don't feel like doing it

 

[omgwtfToph]

The rapid jab beats out your grab. You're basically forced to either take 50% if you're near the ledge, or shield DI away.

go figure you become a contributing member of the fox boards as soon as someone mentions arizona

LOLOLOL I kid.


edit: I wish that grabs worked like they do in guilty gear, where if you're in blockstun (shield stun - after peach's fair, for example) you can't get grabbed. haha although that's only applicable there, and maybe in teams

 

[GOD!]

lol still a bunch of pretentious elitists. It's amazing some of the questions people ask about fox stuff who (a) answer other peoples questions and (b) post so much. but idk

I just want to know the percentage that fox can cc a puffs fair and bair. I feel like it should be over 100 (and I know nair is a really big percent).

Also to people not into dthrow tech chasing: if you're on a non yoshis stage and you want to hit your ithrow bair at 120 for a kill or pray that they dont just shake their control stick back and forth, go ahead.

If you want to freak out a puff, take away her momentum, and get &.. dthrow.

lol irony.

 

[omgwtfToph]

way to call everybody a pretentious elitist and then deride everybody who does uthrow uair (read: every fox ever) in a pretentious manner. real classy, bro!

anyway, against an opponent who SDI's the uair to the side, you can aim the uair such that it turns into a 50/50 mixup - don't go straight up at 'em, go at them at an angle. be clever about how you jump up there for the uair.

a lot of people have a pattern to how they SDI the uair, too. in a moneymatch with eggz's marth a while back he got visibly frustrated and exclaimed "why can't I SDI your uthrow uair? this is bull****, i'm usually really good at it." I was like, "no, you're definitely hitting the SDI, but you SDI to the right (might've been to the left, I don't quite remember) every time, so i just lean to the right as i get up there."

works against puff too. :D

dthrow is decent, but the mixup has too many options for me to like doing it more than once in a while. DI away + no tech is irritating to punish, for example.

sorry, I'm not sure on the %s you can CC puff's fair/bair. I don't think bair goes up nearly that high though. I'd estimate 70-80% before it knocks you down. you could test it if you're at home by resetting a 2nd controller so it's always crouching, then go into a match and experiment yourself.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm so glad I ignore listed GOD!

 

[GOD!]

lol

you're pretentious elitists cause you all flip out when someone says something slightly controversial.

then your bud replicate steps in and acts like a huge ****** but there's nothing wrong with that.

Ok, even if the person doesn't sheik dash dance then they can still do it on reaction. and if you think that's hard, try it. the second you go against a person with good reaction time who sdis away (like in kk's guide) or upward, have fun hitting that.

no tech punish = regrab (?). di away = chase and regrab? its just reaction, her roll is kind of telegraphed anyway. I dont even do this yet, but I realize I should. and drugged fox does it pretty well. can't be that hard lol


and I'm so sad that ***s like you post to get attention looool

 

[omgwtfToph]

no tech punish = regrab (?). di away = chase and regrab? its just reaction, her roll is kind of telegraphed anyway. I dont even do this yet, but I realize I should. and drugged fox does it pretty well. can't be that hard lol

you can't re-grab no tech; they're laying on the ground, and if they DI'd away from you, you're not even standing right next to them. you have to be able to react to all of their from-laying-down options without even being directly on top of them (which is where, for example, sheik wants to be to do her reaction-based dthrow tech chasing).

so in any case, it looks like you're theorycrafting, based on statements like "can't be that hard."

before i moved to japan, the person i smashed with the most was silent wolf. a long time ago, i told him that i thought dthrow techchase was unstoppable on platforms. he got back to me the next day and said, "nah, i tried it out on ciz (a WA Marth) and whenever i tried to dthrow him near the side of the platform, he would just DI away normally, and fall off the platform. you can't follow that up."

"oh," i responded, noting that dthrow techchase wasn't nearly as good as i thought.

please try stuff yourself before insulting everybody else (such as our lovable non-fox-main friend kirbykaze who made my good friend ka-master quit smash for months by proposing gay marriage to him at pound 4) for not contributing.

 

[GOD!]

i insulted him for being a ******

lol you haven't even tried it out yourself and you're telling me not too.. what shame

all I want is cc percents for puffs bair fair

 

[omgwtfToph]

i insulted him for being a ******

lol you haven't even tried it out yourself and you're telling me not too.. what shame

all I want is cc percents for puffs bair fair

for the record, 2/3 of your posts are trite personal insults. seek to improve that

of course i tried it out myself. did you read the part where i told silent wolf i thought it was a good choice on platforms? how do you think i came to that conclusion?

also, i already told you an easy way to test cc percents. i'd do it for you, but i'm at work; and besides, you should seek to help yourself before you ask to be spoonfed by others anyway. think for a second before you post, please.


...actually, just don't post lol. you make yourself look really stupid and bad at the game

 

[Rubyiris]

Toph: I don't uthrow uair because everyone is a **** and sdis.

instead i punish them for being good by shine>bairing. C:

Also I start being a contributing member not due to region bias, but when I see a question I can answer with certainty, and I don't think someone with more credibility will get to it before me.

I could have answered the peach stuff, but plenty of people had beaten me to it, so I figured I'd just answer the Pika thing.

Also dthrow tech chasing ANY CHARACTER IN THE GAME at percentages that uthrow no longer has a reliable follow-up is just a good idea in general, and not limited to Jigglypuff.

@God:

Are you looking for CC percentages of the hard knockback hitboxes of her moves, specifically, or all percentages, because if you hit with a weak fair for example you can easily CC up into the hundreds, but if she lands hard knockback, I'm pretty sure you stop being able to reliably follow up CCing her aerials around the 60~80% area.

 

[omgwtfToph]

oh yeah dthrow is pretty good when uthrow doesn't combo, but i think it should be used sparingly, mixed with the other throws (uthrow to put them in a worse position still *****); because it's situational. *shrug*

i definitely don't think it's worth calling people names over what throw they like to use, lol.

also, i don't think puff should ever be allowed to reach that kind of percent. at about 60%, i generally stop shooting lasers and don't go for anything but kill moves. i remember mango's fox doing this in that tournament where he beat hungrybox with fox only; he would ONLY go for uthrow uair eventually, and pretty much scored all his kills that way; and even though hbox would SDI the uair about half the time, so what? mango would just back off and grab him again

p.s. if puff sdi's enough uairs or whatever that she gets to like 90%, i think the best thing to do is laser her again until she gets to over ~120%, then kill with a bair or, later, nair

 

[GOD!]

well 8/9 of your posts make me want to hit you in the head loool so who's worse? I hope your posting improves.

well if I had a second controller

heres a simple solution : don't dthrow on platforms then you're golden! lol you're so narrow minded its not even funny.

lol whoa ill be sure to think before I ask for cc percents cause huge hos like you might get offended. Think before you type cause I cant test them idiot, did you ever stop and wonder that maybe I didn't have a magical second controller?

oh I guess the fox questions topic is for the incredibly smart people who ask questions like "ugh how do I beat peach she is so haaaaaaaaaard" yeah go fuvk yourself

 

[KirbyKaze]

you can't re-grab no tech; they're laying on the ground, and if they DI'd away from you, you're not even standing right next to them. you have to be able to react to all of their from-laying-down options without even being directly on top of them (which is where, for example, sheik wants to be to do her reaction-based dthrow tech chasing).

You have some options. Largely just brainstorming. These will need testing, some of them.

Anyone who says Jab reset will be stabbed.

One option is to shine her. I think it forces a reset of some kind but I think she gets her getup attack, both rolls, and normal stand. Can be an issue if she just goes to the edge though because then you have to end. Shine sends really far and she gets the roll AFTER, so she can feasibly go from one end to the other. So it kills this as some sort of big infinite combo. Not that the natural restrictions don't do that anyway but this is one of the larger things.

If you have the reaction to hit everything she can do that's awesome do it. Just don't mess up for any reason because this is Jigglypuff.

Dair reset might be worth looking into. SDIable so useless near an edge, but it hits down so I don't think she can ASDI up for automatic wakeup. You can probably then do something. It WILL give her the wakeup attack, rolls, and stand option suite, though, so some reaction time will be needed to follow. I'm also unsure how the multi-hit affects it. It wouldn't surprise me if too many hits could let her stand up on her own. This might need some research.

Drillshine might form a funny kind of reset on her too and do like 10% which might be cool but I'm not sure how it works. And again you're probably going to prompt her to roll to the edge because the Shine sends her fairly far. And then with the roll she can make it on most levels. And that all assumes you started at one end and went to the other. And I'm not even going to touch how SDIable this is.

Alternative answers for those who don't mind ending combo. You could so just U-smash her there, or U-tilt --> aerial and take solace in that you did more damage than you'd get with U-throw Uair.

 

[Tomacawk]

so much drama
this thread is so ****ing gay
unsubscribed

 

[Rubyiris]

Toph is mad legit. God is just a ******.