Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Winston]

From SW's combo video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58miKihjjcU#t=0m50s

are repeated utilts like that practical/the best option in that situation?

 

[KAOSTAR]

I think thats just otto being tight.

I think its very important to combo into up tilt. but he could have used nair instead.

 

[mastermoo420]

I loooove "All Systems Go." 8D

And, imo, I think that was very practical there. You could see that the other Fox was DI'ing hard right or at least a little right. If you nair'd, the Fox would most likely kinda just go forward and then curve down like the right side of an upside-down parabola. Then a tech could happen.

But it still looks really cool and weird with the DC'd u-tilts. Does anyone know how far you have to go before you can actually DC?

 

[FoxLisk]

I loooove "All Systems Go." 8D

And, imo, I think that was very practical there. You could see that the other Fox was DI'ing hard right or at least a little right. If you nair'd, the Fox would most likely kinda just go forward and then curve down like the right side of an upside-down parabola. Then a tech could happen.

But it still looks really cool and weird with the DC'd u-tilts. Does anyone know how far you have to go before you can actually DC?

you can dash cancel as soon as you're out of the IDA.

details if you don't know: the IDA is the initial dash animation. that is, if you are standing and you tap to the right and let go, you go one IDA to the right. out of the IDA you can turn around and dash or walk the other way (dash dancing), and of course jump or shield or dash attack, but nothing else. once you get to the run (different from the dash), you can tap down to cancel your run. this is why running shines at short distance are hard and why you have to pivot to fsmash out of a DD.

 

[Silent Wolf]

From SW's combo video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58miKihjjcU#t=0m50s

are repeated utilts like that practical/the best option in that situation?

if you can get another utilt, whether it be from walk, wavedash or dash cancel try to get one, it just keeps you combo going. dont nair or bair until you have to, if they keep Diing where an utilt will reach them do it until they DI differently then try to full jump reverse light bair/nair under them, etc

 

[Tomacawk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGVzKGo0-qA#t=01m00s
waveshine shield pressure is really good, just don't get crazy trying it often unless you're playing a zelda

 

[mastermoo420]

Yeah, Falcos tend to do that a lot, too. They usually do the occasional double-shines and then waveshine a lot. At least the ones I've played before.

 

[unknown522]

unknown makes me think fox/falco/pichu/ganon/luigi/game&watch/falcon/marth all beat sheik at least 7-3.

puff of course is 9-1.

lol, what is this? the falco boards?

oh yeah, I forgot that ICs exist again.

They're sheik's other bad matchup.

 

[Kanelol]

DC u-tilt is for people with huge techy *****

every match up is bad match up for sheik, she's just so ******** broke that it doesnt matter

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

DC u-tilt is for people with huge techy *****

every match up is bad match up for sheik, she's just so ******** broke that it doesnt matter

What is DC? How about double shines/tetra shines or multiple quick shines for shield pressure?

 

[mastermoo420]

DC = dash cancel (through the use of crouching)

Multi-shines are the best shield pressure, but doing them consistently and perfectly is hard. Doing multi-shines is one thing. Doing multi-shines on the very first possible frame is another (canceling the shine ASAP).

 

[ZoSo]

You don't need to be perfect with multishines for them to be effective. The main problem is being able to do them consistently and still react to whatever situations might arise (they rolled, they tried to roll and got hit, et cetera).

 

[Kanelol]

and multishining on a shield is harder than just multishining

just stick with nair shine imo

 

[TemPesT-]

why don't ppl abuse nair shine / drill shine into jc grab out of the shine more often?

 

[Tomacawk]

why don't ppl abuse nair shine / drill shine into jc grab out of the shine more often?

because shine jc grab isn't guaranteed; it's far from it. people can beat you to the grab, they can roll or spot dodge, they can up b oos, they can shine oos, etc
don't get me wrong, it works probably more often than it fails. it's just risky and there are better options. falco players tend to do it more because their shine gives me shieldstun (i think)

 

[voorhese]

if you do sh ff nair -> shine -> nair (while holding away) is it possible to be grabbed, i think there is like 4 frames for you to get grabbed or something but i dont remember

also i did this cool combo today and i think it may work, basicly i did a waveshine (oos)->jab reset-> sh uair -> fullhop uair (hitting with only second hit) -> fullhop uair again (same thing) -> double jump ff uair (same ****) -> i ****ed up after this. the point is i think the upair thing could work even if they di (cuz i only hit with second part of uair).

edit: also is it possible to thunders from standing with out them di'ing for it?, cuz if so i just recently got wavedashes long enough for it, if not then i play kids with bad di for it.

 

[ZoSo]

I think for them to beat you to the grab, they'd have to be perfect or **** close to it and you'd have to be slow. Not positive though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Waveshining while behind someone is so cool.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol, what is this? the falco boards?

oh yeah, I forgot that ICs exist again.

They're sheik's other bad matchup.

Stop beating me with all those characters and I'll stop complaining about them :D

 

[KAOSTAR]

if you can get another utilt, whether it be from walk, wavedash or dash cancel try to get one, it just keeps you combo going. dont nair or bair until you have to, if they keep Diing where an utilt will reach them do it until they DI differently then try to full jump reverse light bair/nair under them, etc

lol I can't believe ur a cape n****.

is there a difference between reverse nair or light nair?

do you know what actually makes nairs/bairs light? is it where it hits or a time decay kinda thing. I can do em but idk what actually makes it a light hit.

 

[Tee ay eye]

what is it about the game's physics that make uthrow -> shine shine work better than uthrow -> shine at the edge?

 

[voorhese]

idk, but i love it. its and easy gimp ive been using almost since i started fox.

maybe cuz they have momentum from the first shine, b4 the second hits?

or maybe something to do with it reseting di?

who knows, but its ****

 

[KirbyKaze]

what is it about the game's physics that make uthrow -> shine shine work better than uthrow -> shine at the edge?

I think it's because the initial shine has a slight downwards momentum. And when you double shine, part of the momentum from the initial shine is preserved.

It's sort of how you put Sheik at a wildly different angle with Falco's Shine --> Bair than if you straight up Baired.

 

[Winston]

lol I can't believe ur a cape n****.

is there a difference between reverse nair or light nair?

do you know what actually makes nairs/bairs light? is it where it hits or a time decay kinda thing. I can do em but idk what actually makes it a light hit.

they're sex kicks, they get weaker the longer they're out

what is it about the game's physics that make uthrow -> shine shine work better than uthrow -> shine at the edge?

I think it has something to do with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsMK-TJuRIg

some moves seem to be affected by existing momentum; aerial shine is one of them

 

[mastermoo420]

Wow, that video's really cool and informative. o_o Also, I think reverse nairs are a lot like light nairs because you'll usually end up having the nair come out and then AC (aerial control) towards the other dude afterwards so the sex is going away from the kick.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

So the shine-jump-shine gives the second shine a bit of downward momentum causing the opponent to not be hit out but down and out???

Very interesting but also confusing...

Oh and regarding shield pressure against an opponent that shields and holds shield patiently alot. (I know it is good to grab) but other than grabbing will multishines work? If spaced correctly the shield will decay after 2 shines enough that maybe you can get into frame fast multi shines. Can their up-b oos beat the shine?

 

[earla]

ok, i had a session vs jiggs + ic's yesterday.

is spacing ur nair/dair crucial? what is optimal spacing for those moves on shield?

i was getting shield grabbed alot of time out of dairs/nairs where i l canceled then shined?

i was spacing the dairs/nairs directly ontop of my opponent at times.

i'm just wondering if im getting shield grabbed because my l cancelling is sloppy or spacing the moves may also have to do with it?

i was trying to shine immediately after. i should never get grabbed right?

any tips vs jiggs and ic's on avoiding grabs?

thanks so much

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Well I typically main jiggs and I have never been able to grab a fox who aerials on their way to the ground and l cancels to shine. Make sure your aerial lasts the whole way to the ground (that you don't start it to early on the upward part of your sh) cause I can grab you before you hit the hit ground.

Other than that I would say you may be shining too late after the l-cancel. I recommend hitting shine immediately after l-canceling... like get it into your muscle memory as one deft motion of your left hand to hit L and down. I almost hit mine at the same time

 

[joeplicate]

why don't ppl abuse nair shine / drill shine into jc grab out of the shine more often?

i think the real reason is that just nobody's tried it yet

whenever i get shine grabbed i'm super surprised

it's a good-*** mixup, whether or not it's guaranteed

*shrug*



also does this thread still suck? :0

 

[KAOSTAR]

I cant remember who but I swear I just saw a set where somebody was sooo tight that they were able to sidestep a shine grab on the first attempt . and then did it again. I was impressed. I think it was one of the vidz from one of the cali tourneys.

 

[EC_Joey]

I want to start doing short hop nairs that put me behind their shield to shine turnaround JC grab. I've pretty much never seen anyone use it effectively.

Well I typically main jiggs and I have never been able to grab a fox who aerials on their way to the ground and l cancels to shine. Make sure your aerial lasts the whole way to the ground (that you don't start it to early on the upward part of your sh) cause I can grab you before you hit the hit ground.

Raise up your shield if you see an early nair coming by tilting the stick up. If you can catch the hit on the top of your shield you have a good chance of shieldgrabbing before your opponent can get the shine out.

 

[Rubyiris]

Melee physics.

Strangest game physics ever.

 

[TemPesT-]

I want to start doing short hop nairs that put me behind their shield to shine turnaround JC grab. I've pretty much never seen anyone use it effectively.

Raise up your shield if you see an early nair coming by tilting the stick up. If you can catch the hit on the top of your shield you have a good chance of shieldgrabbing before your opponent can get the shine out.

i know i've seen shiz do this, but i think it was a little different irrc he went to far past the shield, so the shine didn't even hit, then waveshined back til he touched the shield. hit it once with the shine, and on that shine turned and jc grabbed. it was pretty slick

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

I want to start doing short hop nairs that put me behind their shield to shine turnaround JC grab. I've pretty much never seen anyone use it effectively.

Raise up your shield if you see an early nair coming by tilting the stick up. If you can catch the hit on the top of your shield you have a good chance of shieldgrabbing before your opponent can get the shine out.

SO basically anyone can shield grab a fox's nair-shine? According to the shield DI theory???

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

anyone can shield grab fox's nair-shine no matter what.

 

[KAOSTAR]

anyone can shield grab fox's nair-shine no matter what.

even zelda?

 

[Winston]

More accurately, anyone who's not zelda or a grapple character can shield grab nair-shine if they predict correctly.

 

[ZoSo]

anyone can shield grab fox's nair-shine no matter what.

You heard it here first, guys. From now on, always try to shield grab NO MATTER WHAT CAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS DO IT.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah, i forgot to mention the characters who have unviable grabs.

lol zoso y u such a ****?

 

[ZoSo]

I just wouldn't want somebody relatively new to read that and think they can literally ALWAYS shield grab Fox's nair/shine.

Even though you're technically right.

Zelda's grab is ****ing lol.