Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Nah man, he's too good. He came to Europe and ***** all of us.
You obviously don't know him very well.
haha you know I'm just messing with you, Ian =P
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
You obviously don't know him very well.
haha you know I'm just messing with you, Ian =P
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
@Tero Yeah, of course.
I'll actually **** you guys this time around, though. Get ready for it, suhn.
I'll actually **** you guys this time around, though. Get ready for it, suhn.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You want to be DI'ing Falco's shine away. You can even smash DI it, if your timing is good, and it'll be harder for Falco to follow it up. At around 40%, go for techrolls when Falco dairs. If you miss a tech, it's almost guaranteed you'll be utilted and comboed further.
I'm pretty sure you want to DI Marth's utilt behind him. If you DI in front, I think his utilt will hit you straight up, assuming it's tipped.
I'm pretty sure you want to DI Marth's utilt behind him. If you DI in front, I think his utilt will hit you straight up, assuming it's tipped.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Can't wait for it!
Stev
Smash Ace
So i was wondering... You can up-throw to shine up smash on CF when you grab him at 0. Is this the most practical option? Or not. Cuz I found that if they DI away, they're pretty much out of reach to tech and stuff due to the lag from your up smash. Or is it better to just tech chase after the up throw
It's not only at zero. They can smash DI the shine away. Just do a normal upsmash or shhfl nair and tech chase.
EDIT: When falco is pillaring you just hold away from him and the shine will send you too far for him continue the combo. You can smash DI marth's up tilt up and away behind him.
EDIT: When falco is pillaring you just hold away from him and the shine will send you too far for him continue the combo. You can smash DI marth's up tilt up and away behind him.
lol at shine upsmash being practical
Tomacawk
Smash Master
never DI marfs utilt towards the ledge, though, you're gunna eat a dair
also be wary of uthrow to dair
di'ing against marf is hard
also be wary of uthrow to dair
di'ing against marf is hard
Lovage
Smash Hero
theres nothing wrong with running shine usmash if you can do it 100% of the time
it kills 5 percent earlier why not
it kills 5 percent earlier why not
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
If you uthrow Falcon at 0%, and he doesn't DI, it will only combo into shine. That's one situation where shine upsmash is practical.
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
always just nair falcon after you upthrow him, thats the only thing that can always hit him even if he dis good...sometimes dash attack works too
good foxes like lucky/jman will just upthrow nair even if they dont DI because it just helps them stay in their fox rhythm
good foxes like lucky/jman will just upthrow nair even if they dont DI because it just helps them stay in their fox rhythm
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Uthrow nair doesn't work at zero. In fact, it doesn't work before 50%, even without DI.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Try your best to not make the first move. Putting yourself at risk first always leads to 40% or more in the ditto. Use this time to search for holes in their movement. Random double jumps, predictable approaches from above/through platforms, poorly spaced/random aerials, etc. If you can't call them for any kind of lag, you'll have to force pressure on them or try to make them shield. Smart bairs and good cornering tactics (cover their jumps and platform movement with FH bair and nairs followed with shines) will help you push them into a position where their defensive options are limited. From here it should be fairly easy to react to their next move. Shields = pressure for you or a grab.
Jumps to get around you = free bairs/uairs or utilt/usmash if you call their landing. Make sure to CC and shine if they try to run at you with nair. This will push them back to where they started and possibly even give you a thunders set up.
This is only one of many ways to go about playing the match-up.
Welcome to Super Smash Brothers Melee for the Nintendo Gamecube. You get hit by Falco or Marth, and death will follow soonafter.
-The first step to escaping Falco combos is to understand that if they dair shine correctly there is no way of escaping the hits. What you can do though, is change your d.i. so they have to work for the hits. Try d.i.ing away from his shine and dair and get off the stage. Be wary of going too low because he'll just dair you. If you're on a platform stage, try d.i.ing towards the platforms so you can tech or something.
-If he does a nair or bair and tries to start a combo, hold down on the control stick to crouch cancel his hit (it reduces the amount of hitstun you take from the hit, like Peach's CC dsmash), and shine. From there, you've knocked him down so you can techchase him or waveshine jab him for setups. You cannot CC Falco's dair. You've probably noticed it has ALOT more hitstun than most aerials do. Even if you CC it, it will keep you locked in stun and he can still combo you. Don't bother CCing the dair. Just run away if you see him coming for you, or shield then shine out of it. Shine of shield and usmash out of shield are your two fastest out of shield options (frame-wise).
-When Falco nairs you during the dair shine pillar combos, always d.i. the nair away. If you d.i. the nair towards him while in the air, you'll hang there right in front of him - and he can fsmash/dair/nair again/shine...literally do whatever he wants. Remember to d.i. AWAY from the shine and away from the nair while being comboed. You can also d.i. behind him when he shines, but it doesn't send you too far. Its just used to juke him out every now and then.
MARTH: Don't d.i. the utilt offstage. D.i. the utilt behind him, you'll make him work for his next hit. If you d.i. the utilt in front of him, you go straight up for more combos. The only time you should d.i. in front of him is when you're near the edge and you smell a dair coming.
The peak of your jump is the earliest you can fastfall.
--------------------------------------------
Shine usmash:
If Falcon misses d.i. on the throw, he'll probably try to d.i. the next hit away anyways. With this in mind, I'm pretty sure holding away makes it so that the usmash misses if the shine hits.
Off topic:
To me, it seems like quick combos after a shine hit "stacks" the knockback. If you double shine an opponent off the stage as opposed to single shine, they go noticeably farther. Similarly, opponents seem to fly much farther when they d.i. away from a shine usmash than from a regular usmash. Is anyone starting to notice a trend here?
Try uthrow shine vs. uthrow double shine on a Fox/Falco near the edge to see what I mean. The shine usmash/usmash knockback difference is like 10x more noticable though (if you hold away).
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
RaynEX is so cool. He eats vegetables.
I.B
Smash Lord
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
lol your jokes are terrible imadh
shine has had set knockback since smash 64.
shine has had set knockback since smash 64.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
get at me.
I.B
Smash Lord
What
you said they fly further from shine -> upsmash than just an upsmash, which is why I made the % comment.
`DNS`
Smash Lord
vs falcon uthrow at 0% regrab
why the hell is he getting grabbed at 0 tho
why the hell is he getting grabbed at 0 tho
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
At 0%, the grab is too slow. Falcon can tech or jump out before the grab happens.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
edit:
It won't work if he DIs anywhere.
No DI = jump
DI in either direction = he lands before you can dash JC grab him
So it will fail.
Do other stuff.
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
lol.
how does ranyex upthrow nair BO10 when hes at 23%??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr2-rOeG3Gc
1:30
also falcon falls slower than falco so it works even earlier for him.
if you upthrow falcon at 0 he doesnt DI, just uptilt. one will hit him then most people will just shield and you can regrab. if he DI's away at that low percent, cant do much
`DNS`
Smash Lord
didn't think he could jump out that fast.. ._.
edit; falcon is heavier than falco tho so fox has to wait longer before he can move
if he DIs away and you can't hit him in time you can probably techchase.. tho it seems he can jump out quite early
edit; falcon is heavier than falco tho so fox has to wait longer before he can move
if he DIs away and you can't hit him in time you can probably techchase.. tho it seems he can jump out quite early
I.B
Smash Lord
If he doesn't DI at 0, would shine -> something be reliable?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Maybe shine u-smash or something.
But I don't think it would be reliable.
But I don't think it would be reliable.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You're overlooking the fact that Falcon is heavier; therefore, it takes Fox longer to recover from the upthrow animation. Falcon requires a significantly higher percent than spacies for uthrow nair to work.
Uthrow utilt doesn't work at 0% if Falcon techs. If he tries to jump out of it, it can, however.
SuperRad
Smash Master
Subscribing
Tomacawk
Smash Master
yes, when falcon is at 0% shine is reliable. what I do is waveshine whatever. the only thing you must be careful about is once he hits the ground hitstun from shine is cancelled, so he can buffer out with roll if you aren't really fast. shine usmash DOES work. utilt DOES work. Jab even works. I usually just uthrow waveshine shffl nair and land behind them. they either get hit and i waveshine them backwards and nair again, or they get their shield up, i land behind them, and just utilt their back instead of shining.
falcon doesn't have any options oos =D
falcon doesn't have any options oos =D
Lovage
Smash Hero
against falcon at 0, i usually uthrow to jab and then usually regrab. it doesn't technically work, but a lotta people fall for it *shrug*
you can also do stuff like uthrow waveshine jab/grab/usmash depending on how they fall from the shine.
you can also do stuff like uthrow waveshine jab/grab/usmash depending on how they fall from the shine.
FluxWolf
Smash Lord
i always go for the u throw (no di) waveshine jab regrab thing lol it ends up being a pretty huge guaranteed combo pretty much always lol but otherwise nair is def. the way to go
i dont go for usmash much on falcon since hes so easy to edgeguard i just push him toward the edge with combo's/nair pressure and as soon as hes off the stage its like 90% kill no matter what percent he at lol x_x
edit: also if the falcon dd camps a lot and u miss ur attacks even when overshooting them say full hop nair approach and if u miss just spam up tilt haha up tilt ***** falcon
i dont go for usmash much on falcon since hes so easy to edgeguard i just push him toward the edge with combo's/nair pressure and as soon as hes off the stage its like 90% kill no matter what percent he at lol x_x
edit: also if the falcon dd camps a lot and u miss ur attacks even when overshooting them say full hop nair approach and if u miss just spam up tilt haha up tilt ***** falcon
Fortress | Sveet
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does falcon fall down from uthrow at 0%? (i dont remember) if he doesn't you could time your shine to be in his landing animation and get a true waveshine combo...
alright guys, i see this a lot. its fox dittos, and one fox is shield pressuring really hard. Then the other fox in shield somehow times an Oos shine right after the other fox's nair-shine-nair. I observed the fox raised his sheild when he did this.... Why? and is the reaction time to Oos shine really fast? Cuz i can't seem to get it =\.
voorhese
Smash Master
i think they either hold the shield up so they can block the attack in the air, then shine b4 the opponent hits the ground....or they are using up to jump
Go marth.. jp lol
I actually would like to know what to do against doc in general. Its hard for me to approach too <.<