Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[PB&J]

egmm played extremely well vs chu and has been on his a game recently..but people were saying he was the most technical player in the world.. and is wont be bias judgment if u have a player from every region judging it..

i mean eggm's fox is really good but the most technical was just too funny too me..i play smash where alot of people cn do what eggm can do..and that doesnt mean they are better i was just saying tech skill wise.

i think a tech skill /flashy contest would be fun or like a game of horse or something would be cool

nice double shines tomacawk..more back airs aganist falcon and try using up tilts some where around there

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'd rather play friendlies than watch/participate in a tech off. I'm sure most people will side with me on this one.

 

[PB&J]

its like a horse event
..ill prob throw in a prize or something

and i have like 7 players ready to do it..i just need like some others and it will be straight

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you don't want to participate, don't.

If i go, i'll be a judge. My tech skill is worthless these days, but i understand everything that goes on and have a good idea of difficulty, ect.

 

[Tomacawk]

I'm down for it too PBnJ but the problem is most people don't care
also thanks
the only people who care are the people who would want to participate lol
and what can i do differently to keep falcon off the edge when he recovers?? I never managed to knock him off of it...i was trying ftilt but it never worked. i think you should just grab the ledge no matter what against falcon, his up b landing lag is pretty high

also, pivot dair/nair
how do you guys feel about it?
like here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3fgG2zgWDg#t=0m16s

 

[Turazrok]

How do I do shineusmash?

 

[Mogwai]

hit down b then smash up on both c-stick and control stick. Or you can just smash up and hit A.

tomacawk, I would've just pivot usmashed, but that all I like to do with Fox.

 

[Tomacawk]

hit down b then smash up on both c-stick and control stick. Or you can just smash up and hit A.

tomacawk, I would've just pivot usmashed, but that all I like to do with Fox.

pivot dair is far safer
if they get their shield up, you're still safe, and it can lead to grab or shine, which are more rewarding than just a usmash
and if it whiffs, well you have like 4 frames of lag so w/e

 

[Mogwai]

well, in that situation, usmash leads to a lot of stuff, but I know what you're saying. Pivot dair seems pretty good, I'm just saying that my Fox likes to pivot usmash

 

[Scar]

ya pbnj youre just confusing technical with flashy

uuaa is the fastest player ive ever seen but that doesnt make him the most technical

silentwolf is the flashiest

uhhh eggm is the most technical fox i've ever played, he does **** no one else can do consistently, and waveshines regularly better than anyone ever even attempts to in-game

 

[CanISmash]

umm you need a slight delay between the up on the control stick and c-stick. otherwise you'll just jump or do something stupid.

also eggm is definitely one of the most technical.

he's not jump cancelling a random amount of shines til he messes up. f he does three he knows he's actually nailing three.

he wave shines backwards easily. forward easily without messing up. reverse thunders. etc. / no meat-ride but yeah

 

[Tomacawk]

I'm gunna start watching some eggm videos to see this, i've never watched much of him. I noticed against chu he was super consistent, and i've never even thought about the difference between flashy and technical. I'm pretty technical but nothing impressive, I'm just really flashy
I will fix that = D

 

[Turazrok]

What is the thunder's combo?
Why Shineusmash instead of waveshine to usmash?
JCing shines, is it the same timing of falco? Cuz I just jump in the air.
Does DIng affect waveshining?

 

[Tomacawk]

What is the thunder's combo?
Why Shineusmash instead of waveshine to usmash?
JCing shines, is it the same timing of falco? Cuz I just jump in the air.
Does DIng affect waveshining?

1. dair->shine->wavedash->tap reset->uair
only works on people who fall down from shines
2. you shouldn't shine usmash. the only time i do it is if i think it might break a shield.
3. no, fox's jump is 4 frames, falco's is 7 (im not positive on the numbers but fox's is far quicker). so basically you hit b quicker after you jump than you do with falco
4. yes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdzNzC2ijJE

 

[unknown522]

falco's jump is 6 frames. It's very slow.

 

[voorhese]

What is the thunder's combo?
Why Shineusmash instead of waveshine to usmash?
JCing shines, is it the same timing of falco? Cuz I just jump in the air.
Does DIng affect waveshining?

tomacawk covered a lot but, for the thunders, its basicly just a waveshine -> jab reset on fox/falco

you can finish with and usmash/grab/ uair

i dont like the uair as much as the grab, but at med % it is really good

(point is the thunders is just waveshing -> jab) so you dont have to dair into it, or uair out of it, be creative

 

[Tomacawk]

no, thunder's combo is only when you do a uair at the end
anything else is just a tap reset

 

[voorhese]

no, thunder's combo is only when you do a uair at the end
anything else is just a tap reset

and i suppose the wombo combo is a good team combo?

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think thunders is defined as a waveshine to jab on characters the shine knocks down. Whether you grab afterward, or falling uair, or charged upsmash - irrelevant.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i need to learn how to safely shield pressure.
is there a good way to practice it alone?

i've heard of playing with stars on veryhigh, but i can't seel the shield, so it seems different.
i've also heard of an action replay code to have an infinite shield. that would help but my action replay won't work on wii. lol

 

[ChivalRuse]

One way that is semi reliable is to set the handicap to 9 for a non-moving human. Set your handicap to 1. Just nairshine/drillshine/what have you until 500 percent, upsmash, and start over.

The lag from hitting someone isn't the same as when you hit a shield, but it's better than SHFFL'ing on air.

 

[Tomacawk]

what I did was spawn stars in training mode then nair shine on shields until I was doing it really fast
also, no thunders combo has to upair. there was an argument about this not too long ago and iirc raynex came in and straighted **** up
imo it doesn't matter i call thunders combo any tap reset from a shine but to be specific it has to end with uair
tl;dr it really doesn't matter

 

[ChivalRuse]

Starman method in training mode works but it's annoying not being able to c-stick.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah i'm super dependent on the cstick. (basically hrc and btt look SOOO fun but i'm left out)

and i can lcancel fine, whether the aerial connects or not, unless the shield is up.
i can lcancel my nairs about 2/3 times and my bairs more like 1/3. that gets me grabbed a lot

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Here's the structure of the combo:

You must start the combo with a shine or anything that combos into shine and can lead into this after the shine, such as drill, nuetral aerial etc. It only works on certain characters who fall from shine For this thread, it's basically info on initiation on Fox and Falco) or characters that don't fall from shine but DIed so they do fall from shine. Some characters go further than others, Imyself am not exactly how sure, just look at Foxandfalco's shine guide, it might be in there, if not, look in any other guides on Fox, or the statistics list made by Mew2King. After shining them, WD out of shine (waveshine) then immediately jab them while they're on the ground. If you jab successfully, they should be unable to move and are forced to stand up in place, but if they are holding a direction, they wil roll that direction out of the initial combo, but I think they can't do that until a certain percentage, but It's not a very high one. They can also do a get-up attack if they are pressing a button that triggers that.. As they are getting up (Don't wait for them too though, at least not in the intitial combo) immediately do a falling shffld uair on top of them, this should pop them up behind you if they didn't DI It. This is when you usmash them from wherever they may be. If you performed this on a Fox/Falco from 0-Whatever % they're at now, you should be able to dash and catch them before they hit the ground with a grab, and then chain throw till you can't and do whatever from there, but the grab addition isn't part of the initial combo, just one of the many other ways of doing this combo and working different methods in, which I will explain later. There are several different ways to get out of this, but don't expect people who have never seen this to get out of it on purpose. You can hold down and tech the uair at low percentages, or smash DI and tech it at any percentage. I beleive they can DI the uair to far for you to reach, but only in one direction. Like I said before, they can hold left or right before the jab to roll that way. There are a few ways of getting out of it, but once you try it, you'll see how great it is. There are many ways of starting it and following it up, it's too good.
Basically: Aerial>shine>jab>falling uair>usmash="Thunders' Combo"

from silent wolf's "Thunder's Combo" thread circa 2006

 

[AnDaLe]

wow good find

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you coudl just go to the fox boards and click the helpful guides thread *shrug*


way to be an enabler sveet.

 

[Tomacawk]

TY sveet, the man who is not too lazy to use the search function
also

anybody want to critique my set with microwave?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5haisMvIpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3fgG2zgWDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP0A7SZOB0s

 

[RaynEX]

Chival: If you're going in training for starman nair shine practice, why would the cstick be necessary? downb+jump+a

it is pretty annoying though

TY sveet, the man who is not too lazy to use the search function
also

I'm so behind on video ****, but I promise I'll get up to speed tomorrow. I still have to look over that doubles set.


edit:

The Thunders Combo: Aerial->shine->jab reset->uair. The Japanese Fox player "Thunders" used that exact combo almost exclusively after the reset. It was at a time when his opponents probably didn't know how to d.i. to escape any of it. Anything that isn't an uair after the jab is not technically a "Thunders". He only ever did the uair.

BUT

I hate to break it to you folks; holding up on the control stick ***** all sorts of resets. You d.i. the jab, and end up on your feet. You can freely shine or buffer a defensive option (roll, sidestep, jump) from this position.

ex.

Sheik dthrow ***** Falcon, Falcon gets smart and decides to mix it up by not teching. Sheik jabs to counter-**** but Falcon holds up to d.i. and grabs (or single-hit nairs depending on percent and how high the jab makes you float).

I guess the secret is out now. Just hold up and it doesn't work.

 

[AnDaLe]

I hate to break it to you folks; holding up on the control stick ***** all sorts of resets. You d.i. the jab, and end up on your feet. You can freely shine or buffer a defensive option (roll, sidestep, jump) from this position.

ex.

Sheik dthrow ***** Falcon, Falcon gets smart and decides to mix it up by not teching. Sheik jabs to counter-**** but Falcon holds up to d.i. and grabs (or single-hit nairs depending on percent and how high the jab makes you float).

I guess the secret is out now. Just hold up and it doesn't work.

Wait so does DIing Up work or not? I'm gonna try it now.

 

[PB&J]

i never said eggm wasn't technical, but hes not the most technical.shiz can do it with fox times 2, show can colbol and uuaa. and uuaa isnt flashy. he does what works.

like i said ill have different judges. only one per region though. i want one from every region incluiding international. well maybe out of country can get like 2 judges like europe,canada,mexico

we are trying it first at winterfest next week since there will be so many regions there and im convincing mango to enter or at least be a judge.

eggm's really technical , but ive seen more in tourny. travel more it helps

i think eggm is top 5 though in tech skill though on the east coast/south maybe top 3.

look out for the winterfest live stream next week.its going to be sick

oh and raynex and uknown- please enter. i like watching your fox's movements and stuff

 

[Tomacawk]

DI'ing up only works at certain percents. Any sdi input at all (seriously, any direction) will work at all percents though. just wiggle your stick

 

[ChivalRuse]

The c-stick wouldn't be necessary for nair shine practice. I just like being able to practice other aerials as well, since the timing is different.

 

[SCOTU]

cstick is never necessary, just man up and use Z

edit: I hate it when you change avatars after a long time, and then you don't even recognize your own posts LOL

 

[bahamutz69]

best way to learn how to move around the stage like a sexpot is by watching RaynEx

 

[TresChikon]

DI'ing up only works at certain percents. Any sdi input at all (seriously, any direction) will work at all percents though. just wiggle your stick

Nein, it has to be at least ~30% off the horizontal if you want to get out of resets at lower percents.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

in order to jab reset, they have to miss thtech, right?

 

[RaynEX]

Wait so does DIing Up work or not? I'm gonna try it now.

It does. I know for a fact that SDIing is NOT necessary. You can hold up and it will work. Toma brought up a good point though. I'm not sure what percent it works at. It truly shouldn't matter, but I could be wrong about it being reliable as an escape at all percents.

best way to learn how to move around the stage like a sexpot is by watching RaynEx

lol what makes you say that

Just run and stuff. Fox is so fast and broken.

in order to jab reset, they have to miss thtech, right?

yes

 

[LumpyCPU...]

^^^^ thanks


so i tried to turn stars on all the way to practice shield pressure.
shields aren't supposed to walk around and jab me, right?
it's messing me up. ha
i suck sometimes...

 

[RaynEX]

Plug in a second controller and set the cpu to human. Commence practice.