Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Charlesz]

A question regarding fox vs falcon. I watched some cactuar vs darkrain matches during "event 52" and I'm wondering how does cactuar land so many nairs so accurately because a C falcon I fight just Dance dance around and appears to read my nairs. Should I camp with lasers and or what different approach should I use? Ill get some videos up asap.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Cactus doesn't have videos

those are legend.

 

[Charlesz]

when I said videos I was referring to my matches

 

[Lovage]

Couple questions.
How good is ledgehop uair?
When would I use SHDL instead of SH?

legdehop uair is very good in edgeguarding ice climbers (popo) and characters like bowser

against IC i ledge hop bair over and over until they're at 100%+ and then ledgehop uair for the kill

SHDL is useful sometimes against tall and slow characters like ganondorf
other than that i don't use it that much because you have less control of your character and its slower.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Boss, CK, Thumbs, Shinku on livestream, if anyone's interested.

http://www.justin.tv/ck_kuroii

 

[Mogwai]

i use up

but this is a bad technique because if u angle your shield up (so the dair hits u earlier) its harder to jump really fast

and following up after shine oos isn't that hard, i usually waveland on a platform above me and sometimes i can hit them with bair but usually not. the point is that u hit them on the ground and they're forced to roll, and if you dash up to their face, they're probably gonna shield, so you can continue to pressure them

its very useful

right, I guess I should've just said to wave shine out of shine OoS. I was just meaning that it's difficult to either waveshine combo or thunder's combo out of shine OoS cause there's too much **** that can go wrong. Generic pressure follow ups to shine OoS are relatively easy, guaranteed ones are hard.

dash grab is actually the same speed as a perfectly done JC grab iirc. (I don't think you can jump and grab on the same frame, but it's been a long time since i've checked). It's still slower on the put-away end though

according to sdm's frame data, Fox's dash grab comes out on frame 12 and his standing grab comes out on frame 7, sooooo... assuming you have to wait til after the first startup frame of his jump, JC grab is 4 frames faster as far as I can tell.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea its only sheik's that is the same speed.

 

[Mogwai]

bowser's and link's are also the same speed.

and the following characters have faster dash grabs:
Yoshi (by 8 frames)
ICs (by 1 frame)
Zelda (by 1 frame)
Samus (by 1 frame)

 

[Tomacawk]

so basically if your character is really bad don't jc your grabs

 

[Mogwai]

something like that

there are other factors besides speed in getting the grab box out. like, peach needs to not JC to chaingrab with uthrow on Fast Fallers.

 

[Tero.]

bowser's and link's are also the same speed.

and the following characters have faster dash grabs:
Yoshi (by 8 frames)
ICs (by 1 frame)
Zelda (by 1 frame)
Samus (by 1 frame)

something like that

there are other factors besides speed in getting the grab box out. like, peach needs to not JC to chaingrab with uthrow on Fast Fallers.

Peachs grab and Dash grab are also the same speed (hitbox comes out on frame 7 and stays out for one frame). Dash grabs hitbox (grabbox) is bigger, that's why you use it for chaingrabing.

If you miss with Dash grab you have 10 frames more of lag (40 frames total) than if you miss with jc grab (30 frames total).

Grab hitbox:

Dash grab hitbox:

 

[Mogwai]

oh, sorry, missed peach in that list.

and her dash grab is actually 1 frame faster assuming you have to wait for 1 frame of jump start up to JC a grab, which I believe is true, but can't get confirmation of that from anyone with AR.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea there has to be at least 1 frame of jump animation before you can JC anything.

 

[Tero.]

oh, sorry, missed peach in that list.

and her dash grab is actually 1 frame faster assuming you have to wait for 1 frame of jump start up to JC a grab, which I believe is true, but can't get confirmation of that from anyone with AR.

I can confirm this.
You have a window of 4 frames to input the grab after you pressed a jump button, so Peachs JC grabs takes a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 11 frames for the grab box to come out.

We're getting a little bit off topic tho, this is the Fox Board afterall.
So data for Fox:

Regular Grab:
Total: 30
Grab: 7-8

Dash grab:
Total: 40
Grab: 12-13

Fox frame window for JC grabs is only 2 frames. Meaning Fox' JC grab takes a minimum of 8 frames and a maximum of 9 frames until the grab box is out.

 

[Mogwai]

ok, so related JCing question that's recently been bugging me.

in order to JC an up smash, do you need to wait for 1 frame of jump start up or can you do so without actually doing any of the jump start up frames?

in other words, does Fox's usmash OoS take a minimum of 7 frames to come out with a 3 frame window, or is it 8 frames to come out with a 2 frame window?

 

[Tero.]

ok, so related JCing question that's recently been bugging me.

in order to JC an up smash, do you need to wait for 1 frame of jump start up or can you do so without actually doing any of the jump start up frames?

in other words, does Fox's usmash OoS take a minimum of 7 frames to come out with a 3 frame window, or is it 8 frames to come out with a 2 frame window?

You have to wait for 1 frame of jump start up.
Fox usmash oos takes a minimum of 8 frames to come out.

 

[PB&J]

question to the wolf- how much are we going to **** @ pound 4

 

[LumpyCPU...]

is it possible to be grabbed before you shine if you bair someone's shield and don't miss the lcancel?

 

[RaynEX]

no

1000nos

 

[iamthemicrowave]

can you do any other shine to moves as fox(other than shine bair or shine upsmash)?? shine upair?

 

[ArcNatural]

can you do any other shine to moves as fox(other than shine bair or shine upsmash)?? shine upair?

I've shine dair'd to regrab onto a platform, mega wtf moment.

I'm pretty sure any combination can be done dependent on location, timing, and DI.

 

[SCOTU]

according to sdm's frame data, Fox's dash grab comes out on frame 12 and his standing grab comes out on frame 7, sooooo... assuming you have to wait til after the first startup frame of his jump, JC grab is 4 frames faster as far as I can tell.

yeah, I just double checked and you're right. It's been a couple years, sorry. Must've confused it w/ sheik's or something. For some reason I was thinking that the standard grab timing was 7/30 and Dash Grab was 8/40, but I was clearly wrong.

is it possible to be grabbed before you shine if you bair someone's shield and don't miss the lcancel?

If you bair them high up on the shield, or with a stale bair, then, you can, but that's kinda doing it wrong.

 

[Tomacawk]

anybody want to critique my set with microwave?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5haisMvIpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3fgG2zgWDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP0A7SZOB0s
I didn't really combo out of uthrow and i was up b'ing too close to the stage, and he would jump off the ledge almost every time and i never hit him out of it
that's what i noticed.

 

[PB&J]

it is very possible..especially against ganon..they crouch cancel to grab..only if they are at low percent though..lambchops would do this to be with his cf too..cc is annoying but useful

 

[Silent Wolf]

question to the wolf- how much are we going to **** @ pound 4

[----------------------------------------------------------------------------]
this much

 

[Turazrok]

If you run off the edge and turn around shine, can you grab the edge?

 

[Tomacawk]

If you run off the edge and turn around shine, can you grab the edge?

you need to stop your rising so you can grab the edge
ways to do this:
up b
side b
or just drop low and shine so your double jump lands you at ledge grab height

 

[Falcinho]

He didn't say anything about jumping out of the shine =O

 

[Tomacawk]

then he should phrase his question better becuse it makes no sense
do you mean just run off the map and shine, flying off using your momentum, and then turning in your shine and waiting?

 

[Turazrok]

Yeah pretty much :D?

 

[Tomacawk]

there's never a reason to do that

 

[Silent Wolf]

yes you can. time the shine kind of early

 

[Turazrok]

yes you can. time the shine kind of early

I hear this guy has the tech skill of a legend. How much do you practice it?

 

[Silent Wolf]

couple hours every couple of days

 

[PB&J]

wolf that is silent..lol- im going to start a tech off challenge at pound 4. every player who enters gets 2 minutes on any neutral stage and will be judged from 5 diff judges from diffrent regions.

reason- i want to see all the silly stuff people can do.

i want to show people true tech skill..thats where u ,shiz,uuaa,etc, comes in

its doesnt have to be fox and falco but i think they will be judged the highest anyway

i want it to be like ganons falcons,spacies,peaches,samus', who ever is tech but i thing the spacies and falcon's will win.

u can only enter one character

so choose one

and i might enter..dont know yet.. and eggm must enter since people are thnking he is very technical which i disagree..it will be fun so..show me your moves

 

[Vegard]

PBnJay you need to learn the difference between the term "flashy" and being technical... Eggm is definitely technical, but doesn't care about showing off or making tech skill videos. Still doesn't mean he's not technical.

 

[Mogwai]

wolf that is silent..lol- im going to start a tech off challenge at pound 4. every player who enters gets 2 minutes on any neutral stage and will be judged from 5 diff judges from diffrent regions.

reason- i want to see all the silly stuff people can do.

i want to show people true tech skill..thats where u ,shiz,uuaa,etc, comes in

its doesnt have to be fox and falco but i think they will be judged the highest anyway

i want it to be like ganons falcons,spacies,peaches,samus', who ever is tech but i thing the spacies and falcon's will win.

u can only enter one character

so choose one

and i might enter..dont know yet.. and eggm must enter since people are thnking he is very technical which i disagree..it will be fun so..show me your moves

1. tech skill competition is a stupid idea. judge bias would be unavoidable, since everyone has seen different **** and thus is impressed by different ****.
2. eggm's relevant tech skill is so ****ing tight and the fact that you still don't think he's very technical after seeing what he did to Chu at Shell Shocked is just mind boggling. you obviously just dislike the guy and let that cloud your judgment of him as a player.

 

[Tomacawk]

just watched that GF set
eggm didn't really impress me with his doubleshines, i can do that too (in fact i can doubleshine waveshine very consistently) but what impressed me was his SHL and the fact that he was ****** chu pretty hard
like i now know the matchup against ICs
dair on their shield
shineshineshineshineshineshine
????????
profit

 

[Mogwai]

look there are a lot of Foxes that "can" do every single thing that Eggm did to Chu. None of them do it, like, ever. The fact that he can just go balls to the walls like that and end up ahead of Chu is a very impressive display of technical consistency, which frankly, impresses me more than anything I've seen in a combo video.

 

[Tomacawk]

most foxes aren't into the super high risk high reward style though which is why you don't see that much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5haisMvIpo#t=03m50s (i'm cool now right?? RIGHT!?)

I'm not disagreeing with you, eggm is hella consistent which is more impressive to me than being able to do stupid ****
i just don't really agree with him going for that **** but if he's doing it that consistently then **** it go for gold