Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Reptard]

Ok. SO I've learned to JC shine, I still need work but yeah. Now here's another question:

Today me and this kid had a match. He uses Marth. I can't beat him at all. He doesn't know any advanced techniques, except for chain grabbing, and he counters all the time. What should I do to beat him?
I try up-throw uair, but it doesn't work. He just counters it. What should I do?

 

[Lovage]

if he is countering your uthrow uair, you're doing it way too slow. jump immediately after the throw and time your uair as early as possible.

if he's countering your regular approaches, it should become pretty predictable. just try dash dancing once or twice and bait out his counter, then punish hard.

practice practice practice

 

[halcyon.days]

Ok. SO I've learned to JC shine, I still need work but yeah. Now here's another question:

Today me and this kid had a match. He uses Marth. I can't beat him at all. He doesn't know any advanced techniques, except for chain grabbing, and he counters all the time. What should I do to beat him?
I try up-throw uair, but it doesn't work. He just counters it. What should I do?

If you're worried about Marth, you should learn waveshining as soon as possible. Since you can JC shine, just go a step further and learn it.

As Lovage said, dash dance and baiting his counters should be more than enough to teach him to learn just how risky countering is. Once you get the timing for uthrow uair down (it's quite easy after a bit of practice), you can chain a neutral or down air into a waveshine to a grab. This grab will then lead to uthrow uair.

Also, a good thing to do against a counter happy Marth. After up throwing him, jump to make him think that you're upairing, and he'll counter leaving him COMPLETELY open. If he's still pretty high up in the air, do another upair, if he's low do a dash attack or an up smash.

 

[Tero.]

How about a Fox Match-up topic like all the character have on the brawl boards?
We could discuss one MU each week. This would save as from answering questions like "how do I beat Marth" for like thousand times...

 

[Lovage]

i think SSBM should have character abbreviations like fighting games
in guilty gear zappa = ZA johnny = JO eddie = ED
ssbm could be fox=FO marth=MA

oh wait thats a dubm idea nvm

 

[halcyon.days]

So... Zelda and Peach, how do I fight them?

Zelda's fair/bair comes out super fast and is insanely strong, and I have no experience against Peach in general.

Uthrow uair and shine usmash seem to work but even when I tried baiting Zelda and being really cautious with my approach I still got *****.

 

[EC_Joey]

I'm not sure about Zelda, never played a really good Zelda player. I'd imagine a good one will space fairs and bairs really well, but Zelda's really really slow. Run away and shoot lasers if the stage is big enough. Most she can do is shield or use neutral B.

You have to beware of those fairs and bairs out of shield. Apart from the bair, fair, and nair, she's also got the fastest downsmash in the game I think, and her forward smash is deceptive. It's easy to let your shield down too early and get hit by it.

As for what to kill her with... I have no idea. I'd imagine the same things you use against Peach. She doesn't slide on the ground at all, so waveshine to upsmash seems like it would work the easiest.

I also have trouble with the Peach matchup. She has ridiculous aerial priority, so don't challenge her in the air, because the best you'll do is just trade hits.

Space drillshines well. If you miss her with the dair she's going to punish you hard. Do drillshines when she's at low percent because if you try a nair she can CC and dsmash.

Run away and laser a lot to rack up damage because she's really slow. Up smash and uair are the most dependable killers. Shine her near the edge of the stage to push her off, and then try to pull a shinespike or a bair. Her options are somewhat more limited off the stage, but she's still dangerous. One wrong move on the ledge and she can take your stock.

Raynex beat Vwins narrowly at a recent tourney, he probably knows more about the Peach matchup.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

All Zelda's got against Fox is Dsmash at the Edge then Fair/Bair/Dair, or Uthrow Bair/Fair.

For Peach, I like to stay inbetween her feet and her head, so in the middle. If you're at the feet, then you'll get Dsmashed. Lcancel everything, make sure. Uthrows work well, drillshines, etc. Off the stage, if you get a shinespike you'll be fine.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Hmm, I am also beginning to think that this board needs a matchup thread. It would make life alot easier than searching through this thread.

 

[Tero.]

Hmm, I am also beginning to think that this board needs a matchup thread. It would make life alot easier than searching through this thread.

Yaaaay
True dat.

 

[Reptard]

If you're worried about Marth, you should learn waveshining as soon as possible. Since you can JC shine, just go a step further and learn it.

As Lovage said, dash dance and baiting his counters should be more than enough to teach him to learn just how risky countering is. Once you get the timing for uthrow uair down (it's quite easy after a bit of practice), you can chain a neutral or down air into a waveshine to a grab. This grab will then lead to uthrow uair.

Also, a good thing to do against a counter happy Marth. After up throwing him, jump to make him think that you're upairing, and he'll counter leaving him COMPLETELY open. If he's still pretty high up in the air, do another upair, if he's low do a dash attack or an up smash.

Ok. I'll try that out.
Thanks a ton.

 

[Stratford]

Hey I was just wondering what people think is the best method (what buttons) to firefox ledgestall. I usually try to do like a quarter circle on the control stick by pressing away, then moving to up for the second jump and then pressing B. I've also tried letting go of the ledge by pressing down on control stick, then really quickly second jump with Y and then up+B.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what is the most consistent, or fastest, or easiest way to do it. Or whatever.

 

[ArcNatural]

Let go with back, then up+B seems to be easiest with me (so your quarter circle method kinda).

 

[Meneks]

Hey I was just wondering what people think is the best method (what buttons) to firefox ledgestall. I usually try to do like a quarter circle on the control stick by pressing away, then moving to up for the second jump and then pressing B. I've also tried letting go of the ledge by pressing down on control stick, then really quickly second jump with Y and then up+B.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what is the most consistent, or fastest, or easiest way to do it. Or whatever.

Quarter circle method...
I think doing that way is much easier then pressing down then up...


Now i have a question for everyone else...
Is there an easier way to waveshine on platforms without going through?
I can easily waveshine people while on a platform but when im applying pressure to shield it gets a bit complicated and i fall through the platform and im unable to wavedash

 

[ArcNatural]

Quarter circle method...
I think doing that way is much easier then pressing down then up...


Now i have a question for everyone else...
Is there an easier way to waveshine on platforms without going through?
I can easily waveshine people while on a platform but when im applying pressure to shield it gets a bit complicated and i fall through the platform and im unable to wavedash

When you fastfall hold down the entire time, if your delaying your aerial just make sure you hold down right after you input the aerial. That will prevent you from falling through.

 

[Sixonesix]

Just to make sure, Fox's down throw meteor smash off the edge of Battlefield, Dream Land, Jungle Japes, etc. vs. Marth, Roy, Falco, Mewtwo, Mario/Luigi/Doc in NTSC Melee is known, right? I searched and didn't find any threads on it here. I randomly stumbled upon it in a friendly.

 

[Reptard]

Just to make sure, Fox's down throw meteor smash off the edge of Battlefield, Dream Land, Jungle Japes, etc. vs. Marth, Roy, Falco, Mewtwo, Mario/Luigi/Doc in NTSC Melee is known, right? I searched and didn't find any threads on it here. I randomly stumbled upon it in a friendly.

The down throw of the ledge thingie? Yeah, it works. I use it sometimes when it is unexpecting.

 

[Tomacawk]

yes destroy, it is very well known and not really viable because nobody missed the tech or the meteor. nobody good, anyway

 

[halcyon.days]

Hey I was just wondering what people think is the best method (what buttons) to firefox ledgestall. I usually try to do like a quarter circle on the control stick by pressing away, then moving to up for the second jump and then pressing B. I've also tried letting go of the ledge by pressing down on control stick, then really quickly second jump with Y and then up+B.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what is the most consistent, or fastest, or easiest way to do it. Or whatever.

There's an angle that let's you let go of the edge, and also is at the same angle that pressing B will make you go into Firefox. So just press back-upish and B, then hold towards the stage and you'll grab the edge.

As for consistency, that's up to debate. On my old controller, I could firefox edgestall 100% of the time without even thinking of it, but I lost it. Now, with the new controller I have, it only works maybe a 1/3 of the time.

As for illusion edgestall (just in case you're curious)
It's best to use the claw. Thumb on the c-stick, and fore finger on B. Press away on the c-stick to release the edge, then press towards on the control stick, and B. The timing is pretty articulate, though.

 

[Tomacawk]

I can actually use the control stick too for illusion edge guards--I just twitch as hard as I can in my arm, faster than when I super wavedash. it hurts though after awhile lactic acid builds QUICK

 

[Reptard]

When I firefox ledgestall, I just press back, then immeidiatly press up b. I usually always have the edgestall thing. I've only missed it twice so far.

 

[FastFox]

When I play Peach, I L-cancel everything into an up smash.

 

[Milos]

really? i dunno i usually l cancel waveshine upsmash cause it's muscle memory and it's inescapable and it does more damage. plus after the waveshine you can shine again if there's room on the stage, and shine until they're at the edge for maxx damage

 

[Stratford]

Yea ok just pressing back and then up b to firefox ledgestall is seeming to be the best bet.

Thanks for the inputs.

 

[cykofox]

really? i dunno i usually l cancel waveshine upsmash cause it's muscle memory and it's inescapable and it does more damage. plus after the waveshine you can shine again if there's room on the stage, and shine until they're at the edge for maxx damage

nair upsmash is best on floating peach

 

[Milos]

ya true shine does less stun to airborne opponents

 

[Reptard]

Peach is such a ***** to fight. All I do is waveshine, which usually doesn't work, then after that failed attempt, I u-smash whenever I can, and I follow that up immeidiatly with a u-air.

However, sometimes I like to mix it up and just keep throwing her off the ledge, b-airing her, and shinespiking. Haha I love their faces when it works =P

 

[Deleted member]

Peach is such a ***** to fight. All I do is waveshine, which usually doesn't work, then after that failed attempt, I u-smash whenever I can, and I follow that up immeidiatly with a u-air.

However, sometimes I like to mix it up and just keep throwing her off the ledge, b-airing her, and shinespiking. Haha I love their faces when it works =P

>_>

try this:

<><><><><><><><><><><><><> GRAB

upthrow > upair

upair

upair

run away shooting lasers till she lands.

shoot a few more lasers anyway

<><><><><><><><><><><><><> GRAB

upthrow > upair

KO

if she throws turnips, double jump over them and away from peach until you can

<><><><><><><><><><><><><> GRAB

you won't find peach very hard for much longer.

 

[EC_Joey]

I'm working on shining out of shield when she tries that float cancel crap on me.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

ya true shine does less stun to airborne opponents

Well all that happens is that they lose their stun when they land. When you shine them on the ground, they're already grounded so that doesn't happen. The actual stun is the same.

 

[Reptard]

It is? The stun is the same as a grounded opponent?

Dude, I never knew that =D

 

[EC_Joey]

...It's why shinespikes can kill.

 

[Reptard]

Dude, I feel so DUMB right now. I mean, I knew the shinespike thigie would work, it's just that I didn't know the stun on peach,as people say, was different.

And to think, that I thought I was a good player. PSSHHH!!!

I may now be one, now the I understand Fox, a little more then before.

 

[Miggz]

Trust me...their so SO much to learn about Fox.

I have been a Fox player for a little over a year and I am still learning new things everyday. :-)

 

[RaynEX]

nair upsmash utilt is best on floating peach

Fixed.

ya true shine does less stun to airborne opponents

lol no.

Same stun, son.

 

[knightpraetor]

ok, the stun is less or something similar..you definitely can't get the same combos. are you sure about that rayne? anyways, i know for a fact that if a marth is hit in the air by shine to regrab he can queue regardless of whether you catch up to him (even when he doesn't smash di).

 

[Tero.]

ok, the stun is less or something similar..you definitely can't get the same combos. are you sure about that rayne? anyways, i know for a fact that if a marth is hit in the air by shine to regrab he can queue regardless of whether you catch up to him (even when he doesn't smash di).

It is the same stun. However the stun only applies if your opponent is in the air.
So if he touches the ground: bye bye stun

 

[Reptard]

GRR Marthnis such a ****. I faced one today with the exact techniques everybody is giving me, and I lost!

What a load of bull****. He was a freaking cheater >:[ He grabbed, threw, f-smash, neutrel b, f-smah again, and counter. ARRGGHH I can't believe I lost.



Anyways, I have a question about waveshining, Mine is pretty slow, and alot of people tell me to use Y and R when I waveshine because it is faster. I use X and R though. Any tips for doing it faster?

 

[Tero.]

Anyways, I have a question about waveshining, Mine is pretty slow, and alot of people tell me to use Y and R when I waveshine because it is faster. I use X and R though. Any tips for doing it faster?

Practise more.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

ok, the stun is less or something similar..you definitely can't get the same combos. are you sure about that rayne? anyways, i know for a fact that if a marth is hit in the air by shine to regrab he can queue regardless of whether you catch up to him (even when he doesn't smash di).

Well all that happens is that they lose their stun when they land. When you shine them on the ground, they're already grounded so that doesn't happen. The actual stun is the same.

It is the same stun. However the stun only applies if your opponent is in the air.
So if he touches the ground: bye bye stun

Hooray for reading comprehension.

Spoiler

no offense