Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Grmo]

I was talking to I.B today and he was saying that full hop nairs can be used to mix things up, because it can be very easy to become accustomed to the timing of short hop nairs.

 

[Brookman]

wow,,, wrong thread?

 

[Miggz]

against jiggs just move around as random and dumb looking as possible till they're lulledf into a false sense of security and when the try to do anything you smash attack them f smash > bair. It helps if you're already drunk.

This comment was funny.

Nice Brookman...nice.

^^;

 

[FastFox]

I was talking to I.B today and he was saying that full hop nairs can be used to mix things up, because it can be very easy to become accustomed to the timing of short hop nairs.

Not only that, but full-hopped nairs work amazingly when combined with a shine against Falco/Fox/Falcon. They're really tricksy, because you've got a pretty wide time-span in which to throw the nair out from your full jump. You can throw it out at the beginning to possibly outprioritize (if possible) your opponent's aerial attack whilst rising, or in the middle, or at the very end. Full-hopped nairs are the ****. use them, love them.

 

[Grmo]

^ Oh yeah, that's very true. I'm going to abuse that at the tournament this weekend rofl. Thanks =D

 

[Meneks]

I never really utilized full jump nairs with my fox.
Back to lvl 1 cpu practice.

 

[JonaDiaper]

the only reason its good is because fox's full jump is pretty short.. compared to others..its good to just like land on top of other people when theyre trying to shffl a move at you

 

[Silent Wolf]

its not all that great.

 

[Brookman]

agreed @ otto

 

[JonaDiaper]

its not great if thats all you do

its also not great if your trying to be technical and you mess up and full jump and you look like a noob lololol

 

[Tomacawk]

Fox boards, I'd just like to come in and thank you all for the help you've given me throughout all my critique threads. I just played an in tourny best of 11 against ripple, and I'd really like one last critique on my fox.
If anybody thinks they are up to watching an 11 game set (it went to game 11) and you'd be willing to comment on my fox, I'd really, really appreciate it. I don't think I'm going to be visiting the boards much after this last critique, but who knows. So even if nobody is down to watch the set whenever it gets uploaded, thanks for all the help regardless--I've gotten incredibly better in a short amount of time due to your help

 

[Grmo]

=D That's good to hear. I'll watch them lol; I've often got nothing better to do anyway.

 

[Tomacawk]

lately I've been trying uthrow->fullhop dair->l cancel shine at low percents and go into a thunders attempt or a waveshine->grab->uthrow->uair...I know you can SDI the last hit of the dair, but is this a good idea?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

They can also just hold up during the drill so they're in the air when they get shined, which leads to them having no stun upon landing and ****** the **** out of you. But against people that don't know that, go ahead and use it. Personally, I prefer safer stuff.

Edit: I assume we're talking about FF's here because it def won't work on anyone else lol

 

[Tomacawk]

yeah, I tried it against marf but the results were unreliable, so I only do it to other fox's now (I still prefer to nair->grab falcos instead)

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

have you guys heard.... about the word?

 

[Miggz]

I'll watch the set too.

It sucks you won't come back for a while to the boards.

The boards made me a really good Fox after multiple critiques. So I hope you continue to post vids and stop by.

 

[Da Shuffla]

What word, Mike? *suspiciously*

 

[Tomacawk]

I'll watch the set too.

It sucks you won't come back for a while to the boards.

The boards made me a really good Fox after multiple critiques. So I hope you continue to post vids and stop by.

I just feel like a bother, because I so actively ask questions and ask for critiques (btw this is the ONLY board that responds well, falcon boards help too but marf/falco are weaksauce)
and I also sort of feel like my knowledge is about maxed out, and the only way I can improve further is just playing (ego? idk)
but the set is super epic..I watched it...by far the best i've ever played, I can't WAIT for it to get uploaded, and I can't wait to see what I can improve on from those videos (i got to watch the set, finally)

 

[PCHU]

and I also sort of feel like my knowledge is about maxed out, and the only way I can improve further is just playing (ego? idk)

Watch Perfect Control videos.
They're sure to give you something to work on.
If that's not enough for you, then something is wrong with you.
You'd have to be some kind of robot.
Or a Tool-Assisted Human.

The TAS videos really give me something to work on.
I'm fast, but I still need a good kick in the rear to get me even faster.
People like Silent Wolf are awesome and all, but now that I'm reaching their tech level, I don't feel as inspired as I used to.
I don't really feel like I'm getting anywhere.
Of course, here in Jackson, I barely have a challenge, so where is there to go to?

I've gotten farther in learning about the 4th dimension and tesseracts than I have in anything pertaining to Melee.

 

[Tomacawk]

Watch Perfect Control videos.
They're sure to give you something to work on.
If that's not enough for you, then something is wrong with you.
You'd have to be some kind of robot.
Or a Tool-Assisted Human.

The TAS videos really give me something to work on.
I'm fast, but I still need a good kick in the rear to get me even faster.
People like Silent Wolf are awesome and all, but now that I'm reaching their tech level, I don't feel as inspired as I used to.
I don't really feel like I'm getting anywhere.
Of course, here in Jackson, I barely have a challenge, so where is there to go to?

I've gotten farther in learning about the 4th dimension and tesseracts than I have in anything pertaining to Melee.

EDIT-my set vs Oranos (puff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkgYwyT_vsg

tech skill is not an issue for me, besides consistency
the 4th dimension is time, so I'm sort of confused here

 

[PCHU]

EDIT-my set vs Oranos (puff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkgYwyT_vsg

tech skill is not an issue for me, besides consistency
the 4th dimension is time, so I'm sort of confused here

Consistency is where I lack as well.
I am getting much faster, though.
And I get more consistent almost everyday.
I just need to bring myself to break 36 shines.

And time?
Not VERY hard to understand, but I admit, I still don't know everything.

A fourth-dimensional cube is called a tesseract; you can find it on google or wikipedia easily.
Basically, it's a cube inside of a cube.
Take the net of a cube, and it looks like a cross.
Take the net of a tesseract, and it's a cubic cross.
Fold all of the cubes together, and you have every cube occupying the same space, giving it the appearance of a cube inside of a cube.
The tesseract in and of itself is merely a theory of what an actual 4-D cube would look like.

See also Hypercube.

 

[Brookman]

length, height, width, and time.

 

[Miggz]

I just feel like a bother, because I so actively ask questions and ask for critiques (btw this is the ONLY board that responds well, falcon boards help too but marf/falco are weaksauce)
and I also sort of feel like my knowledge is about maxed out, and the only way I can improve further is just playing (ego? idk)
but the set is super epic..I watched it...by far the best i've ever played, I can't WAIT for it to get uploaded, and I can't wait to see what I can improve on from those videos (i got to watch the set, finally)

Nah, you aren't a bother at all dude. Oh and I know what you mean about the other forums not being as responsive prior Brawl. It really sucks. lol Oh and never feel as though your knowledge is maxed out either. I'm constantly learning something new about this game. Like, have you ever played melee for a few hours and you just see something that you've never seen before like a glitch or combo? But you are absolutely right about improving, that is by simply playing more. Just never give up and keep a positive mindset. :-)

I look forward to watching your set too.

 

[Tomacawk]

this is winner's finals..next set is the best of 11 (gunna be uploaded tomorrow, no earlier :/ )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBH7YYok5FQ Game 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7gfyPxZE24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1sIQpbC-nI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfRAXQ9hgdE Game 4

 

[FastFox]

length, height, width, and time.

You should try posting something significant, for once.

 

[RaynEX]

I just feel like a bother, because I so actively ask questions and ask for critiques (btw this is the ONLY board that responds well, falcon boards help too but marf/falco are weaksauce)
and I also sort of feel like my knowledge is about maxed out, and the only way I can improve further is just playing (ego? idk)
but the set is super epic..I watched it...by far the best i've ever played, I can't WAIT for it to get uploaded, and I can't wait to see what I can improve on from those videos (i got to watch the set, finally)

EDIT-my set vs Oranos (puff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkgYwyT_vsg

3:13
4:04 (Both were easy shield grabs. The Jiggs was at kill percent. Why did you keep sh bairing when she was right in front of you, running headfirst into your shield?)

5:00-5:27 (This entire time, he keeps camping an edge. Either camping the left one, or running all the way to the other side and camping that one. At around 5:27 it finally pays off and he almost bthrow gays you.)

Notice how Jiggs is camping near the edge at these times. She is at kill percent again, and she wants to get some easy, stupid gimp kills. You kept running in trying to take her stock. Luckily, Oranos failed the edge-guard, but it still almost got you killed. When you have the win in the bag like that, don't get too hasty. You had the stock lead and the advantage (all you needed was one usmash). Next time if Jiggs plays the Hungrybox camp game, run back and shoot lasers. Force her to start fighting you for real, and it'll be even easier to land that usmash without risking stocks of your own.

There are still a bunch of things for you to work on. The Jiggs you were facing really didn't have any idea what he was doing. Everytime you got Jiggs in an uthrow, you jumped too slowly for the uair. Compare it to M2k's uthrow uairs and you'll see what I mean. Oranos could have jumped out of those uthrows easily. Also, you don't shield nearly as much as you need to. You ran into some random attacks, and were generally unprepared for an obvious bair or random move the Jiggs would throw out. Work on quickening your uthrow uairs, and dashing close -> shield for easy shield grabs. If they don't fall for the shield bait, WD oos towards them and apply more pressure. Usually when Jiggs/Peaches etc etc feel pressured they try to hide in their shield. THIS is when you should attack. Also try CCing fairs or bairs for easy usmash kills.

tl;dr - make your uthrow uair faster. Your attempts right now are really slow, but your opponent doesn't even bother to jump out so you probably don't notice.

Watch Perfect Control videos.
They're sure to give you something to work on.
If that's not enough for you, then something is wrong with you.
You'd have to be some kind of robot.
Or a Tool-Assisted Human.

The TAS videos really give me something to work on.
I'm fast, but I still need a good kick in the rear to get me even faster.
People like Silent Wolf are awesome and all, but now that I'm reaching their tech level, I don't feel as inspired as I used to.
I don't really feel like I'm getting anywhere.
Of course, here in Jackson, I barely have a challenge, so where is there to go to?

I've gotten farther in learning about the 4th dimension and tesseracts than I have in anything pertaining to Melee.

What is it with Foxes these days and tech skill. It doesn't matter how much tech skill you have, you won't win any tournaments if you aren't a SMART PLAYER. Look at Silentwolf. Dude has the more technical skill than several smash players combined, yet he rarely wins tournaments, or beats other notable players outside of his region in tournament. (I could be wrong, but I haven't heard of any recent accomplishments so excuse my assumptions)

I shouldn't dwell on the topic any further, because my points will eventually lead me to state that you have to learn2d.i., edge-guard, make smart decisions (move selection when edge-guarding/comboing, spacing and how you should move otg/platforms, what to do out of shield i.e. roll/wd/sidestep/attack/jump/nothing)

...but this wouldn't mean anything to a player that doesn't have decent competition to practice with. All I can say is, try to travel more and open your mind up to the other important aspects of this game. Technical skill is just the tip of the iceberg.

You should try posting something significant, for once.

love the avvy FF. ^^

 

[Binx]

Umm silent wolf beat M2K's fox with Falco haha.

But yeah intelligent play is easily more important than tech skill, but you gotta have both.

First rule of smash is you have to press buttons to win.

 

[Brookman]

You should try posting something significant, for once.

If you want to be good you have to learn your spaceing.

How was that?

 

[brickman]

If you want to be good you have to learn your spaceing.

How was that?

Don't listen to him, he can't even spell the name right.

it is "Brickman".

 

[Tomacawk]

thanks raynex. Can you take a look at the next set as well?
(still waiting on friend to upload grand finals)

 

[PCHU]

Good news!
I have some matches up on youtube.
Unfortunately, I did these practically right after I woke up.
I was rather tired, so I made some stupid decisions.
Like I totally forgot about utilt.
Though it's definitely not combo-reliable, it is on people with poor DI.
And besides, that's how I start most of my combos.
I was wondering why nothing seemed to be leading into anything major.

But yeah, no big combos, just my Fox.
I'll try and fight him when I DON'T stay up all night playing Brawl until 2:00 AM.
Otherwise I wouldn't have been as tired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlPEzS4dWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBXne5G-Bw&feature=channel

I thought I was doing okay, but it's a pain to watch >_<

 

[EWC]

Put half as much effort into movement as you've obviously put into multishines, and you'll be smexy.

 

[RaynEX]

Good news!
I have some matches up on youtube.
Unfortunately, I did these practically right after I woke up.
I was rather tired, so I made some stupid decisions.
Like I totally forgot about utilt.
Though it's definitely not combo-reliable, it is on people with poor DI.
And besides, that's how I start most of my combos.
I was wondering why nothing seemed to be leading into anything major.

But yeah, no big combos, just my Fox.
I'll try and fight him when I DON'T stay up all night playing Brawl until 2:00 AM.
Otherwise I wouldn't have been as tired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOlPEzS4dWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBXne5G-Bw&feature=channel

I thought I was doing okay, but it's a pain to watch >_<

No johns. Posting vids then johning simply shows that you want to look good, not improve or take advice.

Regardless: 0:55 in the second video was about the time I stopped watching. Combo to random JC shines? lol..

After watching those matches, I'm pretty sure my assumptions about you were correct. You can JC shine better than most people on the Fox boards can (including myself and probably Silent Wolf), and you can SHDL which is also good. But man, everything else about your game NEEDS WORK. Dtilt to fsmash? Fsmash as a punish? I don't think I even saw a single waveshine -> grab, or waveshine -> usmash. Barring even those two techniques, I noticed that you even have trouble dair-shining. How can you have the balls to saw you have almost peaked at technical skill when you can't perform those simple, foundational Fox moves?

People like Silent Wolf are awesome and all, but now that I'm reaching their tech level, I don't feel as inspired as I used to.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against new players or players trying their best to get somewhere in this game. What I do find slightly annoying are players that exaggerate their own skill and use tech skill as a way of boasting about how amazing they are. This whole situation is a great example of how practicing tech skill has NOTHING on actually playing people, learning to think and be fluid and master the basics of smash. Why JC shine 50 times or SHDL, when you can't even edge-guard, waveshine grab, or do any other fundamental Fox technique without fail?

You need to review the basics. Master lcancelling to shine on an opponent, try to edge-guard. Grab the edge and use bair/shine maybe? Use grab and try to combo more. Don't fsmash so much...and don't use it to punish. Usmash and grab are much better options.

Oh, and if you try to john your way out of this one by saying how staying up late and playing brawl somehow took away your ability to dair->shine.

Well, then seriously there is no getting through to you.

Sorry if I sounded like an ***, but I had to say what I feel was on everyone's mind.

big edit: That was too harsh, I apologize.

 

[PCHU]

As I said, I just woke up.
I was about to leave my friend's house, so we got in a few quick matches.
After I left his house I slept from 5:00 to 8:00 in the morning, and then some.
Serves me right for spending hours on end perfecting my multihsining which could STILL stand for improvement.

And the waveshine to grab?
Tried that, but his DK hit me AS I WAS GRABBING HIM.

Yeah, my game is badly rusted.
It doesn't help that my opponent is new to Melee.

If I could find someone to train under, I'd be more than happy to get better.
Until then, CPUs are the only thing for me.
They need to make Melee online.
I don't care HOW MUCH lag it has, it would be so useful right now.

Other than all of that, thanks for the advice.
I'll try and improve my waveshine distance and speed.

BTW, I made a tech skill video that was actually good.
But I'm afraid to post it.
Is this thread only for fighting?
I'd really hate to make another thread just to post this thing.

EDIT:
Oh wow.
You guessed about my staying up BEFORE I posted it?
You're psychic.
I swear.

 

[Tomacawk]

ugh, I feel kind of bad because you're 14, but
you aren't skilled at smash
pretty much everything raynex said is the truth. I can't even begin to critique your play because you're so lacking in the basics. You have great multishines. But you can't even L cancel consistently. You can't combo at all. You can't waveshine very well, either.
I don't know how much time you spent learning to multishine, but multishining isn't going to win you any games. Especially when you didn't even use it's one purpose (breaking shields?)
I HIGHLY suggest changing your attitude and sig before any more flaming arises from them; and you don't appear to be willing to learn, judging by the massive johning.
tl;dr-drop ego, play more, listen to raynex.


also, my set against ripple is being uploaded, but there have been issues and it needs re-uploading. the videos will be here:http://www.youtube.com/user/the2ndsamurai
Thanks to all who view and critique this set.

 

[PCHU]

Thanks.
And I'm not being sarcastic either.

That just gives me more room to improve.
And don't feel bad just because I'm 14.
Actually, I'm not even 14 anymore.
I just turned 15.

Also.
I'll get better videos up soon.
I CAN L-cancel, else I wouldn't be able to do SHFFLs.

And heck, I never said I was "pure win" or anything.
In a sense, I'm still learning how to fight.
My bad if my tech skill goes far beyond my fighting capability.

And if I upload better videos of me and lv. 9s?
One problem:
THEY'RE LV. 9s.
ANYONE can combo on them.
How can I prove anything with that?
I rarely get to fight my friend.
Note: I said FRIEND, no 's' at the end.
He's the only one who plays Melee competitively that is within my parent's driving range.
We barely practice at all against each other.
Our last fight was months ago.


But hey, no johns.
I don't want you to pity me or anything.
But I definitely don't want you making rash statements.
Think about what you say.
With that said, I guess I'd better go practice.

Thanks for all of your advice guys!

Still don't think I can l-cancel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axwb2CguQuc
This says otherwise.

 

[Tomacawk]

this is what I'm talking about (note--you missed the first L cancel)
You got offended, and posted that to help your ego. DROP THE EGO.
You missed tons of L cancels against a real person. Good job dude, you can shine shffl the air. That's pretty sick. I bet you have massive shield pressure
oh, wait, you don't, you spent all your time johning and practicing useless **** instead of playing the game.
and you can combo lvl 9 cpu's. They always DI towards the center of the stage, and you can practice thunder's on them, and you can practice l cancels on them, and shine combos, too.
Seriously, stop getting offended. It's nothing personal. If you spent this time practicing, or thinking about what you could have done differently, you'd be a lot better. Come on man. This game is a lot more mental than it is mechanical, you're a lot like me when I was first introduced to shined blind. I thought if I played fox and learned to waveshine I'd be unbeatable. That was mid 07.
Stop thinking that we're just talking ****, or whatever it is that you think that forces you to not listen to us and john everything away.

 

[PCHU]

I'm not offended.
I'm glad you're trying to help me.
But, I'm afraid you're coming off like a jerk.
Calm down and post facts rather than useless crap.
I get what you guys are saying, but jeez, you act as if I'm ********.
I GET IT.
I GET IT.
I get it already.

Also, I AM LISTENING TO YOU.
I'm just taking your advice in a calm manner.
Did you want me to roll all over the floor crying a river?
I won't; my bad.

Why don't YOU tell ME what to say.
No matter what I say, you have some comeback to it.
I'm giving logical reasons here, but I'm quickly finding that emotions are taking you over.
Call me apathetic, but you're overreacting.
I'll post videos later of me playing better.
AS FOR NOW, I'LL PRACTICE.
OKAY?

Please don't upset yourself any more over me, I'll be fine.
Focus on yourself.
You're going farther than I probably will in years, since I can't travel anywhere.
YOU NEED THE CRITIQUE MORE THAN I DO.
Did I say you suck?
NO, heck no.
I'm saying you shouldn't worry so much about how well I play.
My mental condition is fine.
I'm 15 in a city full of nothing; do I honestly NEED to improve? (Yeah, I do)

Read throughly and take a deep breath.
I get what you're saying.
I'll apply it.
Thanks for your advice yet again.
Just don't get too emotional.
Or either that you're totally calm, but it's hard to tell when it's all in text.

 

[Tomacawk]

lol.
I'll let the rest of the fox boards take over, since I'm such an emotional wreck