Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Tomacawk]

so like, i really suck at the fox ditto. Turns out the way i think about spacing and stuff is based on speed differential of characters, so when they're the same speed... i got nothin. Almost every (reasonable) fox i've played though, knows how to combo better in the ditto than I do, so I'm stuck having to hit them more than they hit/grab me... obviously a bad position to be in (esp. on FD). What sort of **** am I supposed to be using on fox?

combos...ok
you have to be solid out of grabs. uthrow->usmash->whatever, chaingrab->whatever, uthrow->bair->ledgeguard
can you thunder's? against good DI thunders=free 40% if you go for the uair or usmash, but i'm starting to prefer a grab instead, but do your thing
nair->shine tech chase
dair->pivot utilt->whatever (not sure if this actually keeps them in hitstun but i've done it before)
hope that helps

 

[knightpraetor]

with fox on falcon, is upthrow to shine to regrab guaranteed on no DI? i assume you start it right as they hit the ground since shines on airborne opponents have less stun.

Also, scotu I feel you.

I have a fox that kills non-space animals better than the other foxes in my area i think, but fox dittos destroy me. And my friend has better tech skill and will perfect chaingrab or some ridiculous combo. I feel like the only advantage i have on him is that he plays too risky and sometimes kills himself, but that's not something you can rely on in a tournament. Although i may go fox vs him anyways in tourney, as my marth is too out of practice. hopefully we just won't meet till finals and i can convince him to split

anyways, I am a chronic third placer at tournaments. So many third places it is getting embarassing. I usually get knocked out in fox dittos...but if not it tends to be random characters i never play against like ganondorf or falcon. Marth and sheik aren't very scary to be honest, although peach is a little scary unless i get a big stage in which case i relax and remind myself that i can camp

 

[SCOTU]

thanks for the tips guys.

 

[RaynEX]

I have a question regarding marths chainthrow on fox. What is the best way to di to escape. Percentages would be helpful to.

Don't d.i. and shine out at 20%. D.i.ing makes CGs last longer and hurt more. If you don't d.i. they have to move and work for their combos. If you d.i. in a certain direction all they have to do is hit the c-stick and you die. Or fair you and wait for your d.i. and do something afterwards. Neutral d.i. is your friend during cgs. Just make sure to react accordingly after they hit you, so that your d.i. isn't fail and you get super comboed.

Does drill to up smash work? I've seen Sensei's Fox do it in tourny against a Falco at higher percents, but whenever I try to do it they shield it before the up smash comes out or they CC shine me.

Yes, it does work. Practice it in training mode before you try it on humans. The timing is difficult and you have to usmash immediately after the lcancel, but it is definitely possible. Drill->grab is more reliable though, so if I were you I'd do that instead.

I just want to confirm what is the best aerial option against enemies defense.

(Avoid sending in a hit, when they send out a hit box) Like marth's sword for example.

If I expect a crouch cancel I should go for down-air?
If they are shielding use N-air for shield stun?
Up-air on a diminishing shield to shield poke their head?
Of course if I'm close i'll l-cancel into a shine, and if I expect them to keep shielding i'll jc grab out of shine. If they are slightly out of reach i'll l-cancel into jab or f-tilt instead.

If I could get an elaborate look on this that would help me tremendously. Sorry in advanced if I missed this being said already. As in my options once i finally get in and they have a defense option.

I hate planning moves out like this. I always just react to the situation and use my head for quick, on the spot decisions. This isn't like Street Fighter where you memorize combos. However, it definitely is good that you're trying to remember what to do in every situation. Could you ask a straight out question though? I 'm afraid I didn't really catch what you were trying to ask.

I was perusing through the current Melee tier list thread and stumbled upon this



My DI is terrible, I only know how to DI upsmashes and knees and things like that. How does one DI to avoid the raptor boost->usmash->uair->grab->dropzone?

D.i. the raptor boost down and away, and the usmash won't hit. If you get hit by the usmash, d.i. THAT down and away, and the uair won't hit. If the uair hits d.i. away or down or even neutral d.i. and the grab shouldn't work. Dropzones shouldn't work at all, just hold away goddamit.

Combo d.i. is extremely important, haven't I taught you Fox boards anything? lol

LOL Jman and RaynEX haven't posted since here the merge. i wonder if they even know.

::unsubscribes::

I'm baaack.

want to bump rather than edit incase someone misses it and it's a sticky anyway so **** it
the BIGGEST problem with the lasers is it interupts what I'm doing and makes my movements super awkward (the game where I went marth shows it a LOT better)
I spent so much time on tech skill and I can flow extremely well, but the lasers just **** up my controller inputs and I get really disoriented
is there anything I can do to get over this problem besides not getting hit?

Listen to EWC. I had to face Th0rn at Mass Madness last weekend in loser's semis. I had the same problem, but using the platforms and pressuring with bair helped alot. Use them to get close and overwhelm him until you force him into an edge-guarding position. In general, when you're far away from him I try to watch the space in between us so I can react to random lasers and weave around them without getting hit. You have to be mindful of both Falco and his lasers. Treat them as two completely different opponents.

ayo someone explain this down throw nonsense with falco at high percents.

particularly d-throw d-smash.

its past the percent where ur avoiding a regrab and if eel like u cant tech it or avoid it at all. im not a nub but im super confused still. lololol

D.i. down and away to avoid. Or d.i. towards and shine (not sure if this works). Better solution would to not get grabbed.

wait, wat

You beat who?

Smooth Criminal

KDJ son. : D

So much spam, and its sounding like he beat KDJ.

Did you play his Sheik at all?

1st match in tourny was his Marth vs. my Fox. He was going Marth all day so I was pretty worried. I beat him on Battlefield though. Second match he cped me to Pokemon Stadium and 1 stocked me in a close match. Then I took him to Yoshis and beat him on my cp. After I beat his Marth he almost went Sheik on me, then went back to the character select screen and decided to ditto instead. Lucky for me, seeing as I'm MUCH better in Fox dittos.

PC and Darc took you out?

Yep; PC in winners, Darc in losers.

question:


you hit a marth diagonally up in the air(like kinda a 45 degree angle. you do NOT have time to get under to him to a Uair, but you have a chance to case him and follow up with either:

double jump> nair

-or-

shine >turnaround> double jump> bair



what is the best choice?

Nair. You can fastfall and run and do something else. Like run in and shield -> grab, or run in and CC his attack and shine -> something. turnaround bair takes away your chances of landing more hits.

thanks for the tips guys.

****, I'm too late.

 

[Lovage]

grab a falco near the edge with your back facing the edge

uthrow double shine, WD back to grab the edge, drop off, double jump and shine their firebird
easiest and most reliable gimp i know

 

[EWC]

What advantage does double shine have over just one?

 

[P.c. Chris]

it seems like double shine makes falco fly back so much farther so he can't recover with forward b and is forced to use up b which basically means he's dead. Correct me if I'm wrong though, jman does it to me a lot but i haven't gotten to test DI with it because it very situational.

 

[RaynEX]

Sounds cool, must try.

 

[Lovage]

yea to be honest i'm not 100% sure how the double shine gimp works. i just tried it randomly and have had really good success with it. i think it might be possible for them to DI/jump correctly so they can side+b over the edge, but we'll see. shield grabbing a falco near the edge is usually really hard LOL so you have to make your own grabs as mango would say

edit: also, it doesnt really matter if its a real doubleshine or not. you can leave the ground as long as the second shine hits them and you have time to shine spike their firebird

 

[P.c. Chris]

what jman did to eggm once was thunders combo near the edge, then instead of grabbing or upsmash or whatever. he did a double shine really quick. Eggm just shot off the stage and it was an easy shine spike gimp.

 

[EWC]

That's cool. I will definitely try this the next time I play. I'd really like to know why two shines sends them farther than one.

hmm...

MAGUS AWESOME SEXY MAGUS420

 

[Grmo]

it seems like double shine makes falco fly back so much farther so he can't recover with forward b and is forced to use up b which basically means he's dead. Correct me if I'm wrong though, jman does it to me a lot but i haven't gotten to test DI with it because it very situational.

Does that only work against Falco?

That's cool. I will definitely try this the next time I play. I'd really like to know why two shines sends them farther than one.

hmm...

MAGUS AWESOME SEXY MAGUS420

It's possible that the game is weird and builds up forward momentum from consecutive hits. It's the only thing I can think of. Either that or it's just a glitch or some sort of situational hitbox oddity.

 

[thumbswayup]

Thanks for the DI advice Raynex

Yea me vs. Kdj in losers finals was recorded. Also recorded were my hour-long friendlies vs. Cort and his Marth/Falcon and my winners semis match vs. pc chris.

man im glad to be back.

Were these uploaded? If so, link?

Also, last week I finally shined to bair with Fox :D it was on a Falco and it was grounded, but it still felt amazing lol. Now, no matter how hard I try, I can't shine to bair in the air. Everytime I fail to jump out of my shine with the bair. I've tried using the control stick for the double jump, but it's so inconsistent and it almost never does jump out of the shine. And it's still not fast enough to get the bair out and hit them. I know it isn't really useful to learn, but I want to anyway soooo badly. Do you guys use the control stick or just X or Y to jump out of your shine for the shine to bair?

 

[RaynEX]

Thanks for the DI advice Raynex



Were these uploaded? If so, link?

Also, last week I finally shined to bair with Fox :D it was on a Falco and it was grounded, but it still felt amazing lol. Now, no matter how hard I try, I can't shine to bair in the air. Everytime I fail to jump out of my shine with the bair. I've tried using the control stick for the double jump, but it's so inconsistent and it almost never does jump out of the shine. And it's still not fast enough to get the bair out and hit them. I know it isn't really useful to learn, but I want to anyway soooo badly. Do you guys use the control stick or just X or Y to jump out of your shine for the shine to bair?

They are being uploaded today by this dude named adhdfoy.

For shine bairs I use the control stick. If you're getting stuck, it means that you are putting in inputs too fast. You are probably trying to jump while Fox is turning around in his shine. Break the process down: 1. shine, 2. turn, 3. jump, 4. bair

If think about it in steps you'll understand its timing. Make sure you don't jump until after you hit the other direction on the joystick and see Fox turnaround.

 

[X- Sylar -X]

About the multiple shine thing... i dunno what is up but i've always noticed if you shine someone consecutive times with falco they get more distance....

Maybe this is the same with fox??

 

[Bets]

I have trouble with Falco matches. He just has too much pressure over me. I remember mango saying "Once Fox gets a hit on Falco, Falco will be his *****" How do I make Falco my *****? The falcos i play against have a PC Chris style gameplay.

 

[KirbyKaze]

shine --> tech chase ****

 

[Miggz]

I find its best to try and get Falco of the stage and prep him up for an edge guard. Falco's Up B recovery is horrendous when compared to Fox's. Chain grabbing to up smash also works wonders on Falco. You should try and post a vid so we can see what the problem is too. =P

 

[thumbswayup]

They are being uploaded today by this dude named adhdfoy.

For shine bairs I use the control stick. If you're getting stuck, it means that you are putting in inputs too fast. You are probably trying to jump while Fox is turning around in his shine. Break the process down: 1. shine, 2. turn, 3. jump, 4. bair

If think about it in steps you'll understand its timing. Make sure you don't jump until after you hit the other direction on the joystick and see Fox turnaround.

Thanks, I'll have to practice that a lot more. One more question, when shining to bair do you use A or c stick for the bair?

I have trouble with Falco matches. He just has too much pressure over me. I remember mango saying "Once Fox gets a hit on Falco, Falco will be his *****" How do I make Falco my *****? The falcos i play against have a PC Chris style gameplay.

At 0%, grab> up throw> up tilt> regrab> upthrow> upsmash ****'s guaranteed if they don't DI the throws I think. Chaos Knight does that **** to me all the time in Fox dittos lol

 

[Binx]

Use light nairs to grabs at low percents then tech chase them and hit them off the ledge, if you think they will fall a bit off the ledge you can intercept forward b sweetspots with a rising nair off the ledge, if they go any lower they get shine spiked, if you think they will go higher then you predict the angle they forward b at, at you and towards the ledge for a sweetspot are both covered by a rising nair with the correct timing and spacing, above you by turning and bairing.

If they CC the light nairs you can dair into grabs or you can use heavy nairs into grabs. At medium percents its all about intercepting them in a jump with nairs or bairs and getting them off the ledge.

 

[RaynEX]

Thanks, I'll have to practice that a lot more. One more question, when shining to bair do you use A or c stick for the bair?



At 0%, grab> up throw> up tilt> regrab> upthrow> upsmash ****'s guaranteed if they don't DI the throws I think. Chaos Knight does that **** to me all the time in Fox dittos lol

I use c-stick for the bair.

In that combo you just mentioned, you should be able to shine after he utilts and before he grabs.

 

[Lovage]

falcos dthrow is something that needs to be talked about more
one of my favorite ways is di'ing away to dtilt

****.1?>1?1?!?!

 

[MarsFool!]

Ok, this question is going to come of as silly but hear me out. How do I fight Peach? I mean I know camp her to death and upsmash through her aerials blah blah blah. but how does this matchup work seriously. Maybe Im not running/being gay enough?

 

[FastFox]

Whenever I play against a Peach, all I do is try and out-gay her, which is fairly easy with fox. At higher percentages, properly space bairs, and make sure you always hit hard with a follow-up, like a u-smash or something. When she's recovering, don't be scared to jump out and edgeguard, but watch out for that umbrella. If you don't feel safe, just camp the edge a bit until you figure out the pattern that she's taking to get back on stage.

 

[Grmo]

I find with Peach that it's fairly easy to read her, because of how easily Fox can react to the situation. If she's being defensive, you can either laser (depending on distance) or do what I do and just activate super technical beam and run in, don't miss l cancels and **** with shine and grabs. As soon as you get her in the air, bair is ****, and up smash either beats or ties with all of her aerials. Again, if she's being really aggressive, up smash out of shield is really broken. I dunno, I don't find peach as threatening as I used to, mostly because you beat her with combos, you beat her with priority and you beat her with options. I find the best approach to peach is actually not camping, but to be very aggressive. Look for up smash and grab opportunities. This matchup is really about having a good push-and-pull game, so if you can land your kicks and grabs, and can think your way out of her tricks (because her punishment game is good vs Fox), then it's your game.

EDIT: People were asking about Falco earlier, and I mean...you could go on forever about possible strategies for getting around them, but there's never an easy way through things in this game. You just have to think. Jump over their lasers, whatever, but if they start using up tilt, just stop using aerials because that move beats all your aerials. Punishment comes easily, since Falco gets comboed like he's your ***** once you get a shine or grab.

Honestly, all you can do for now is watch and react, and try to think of a way to get out of the pressure. There are no answers in words, because it works differently for everyone, but it will come to you.

EDIT2: There's one more thing I should say here, and that is to address the myth that Falco has control during the match. The only thing he has control over, in truth, is whether or not he approaches, and there's nothing you can do about that.

 

[Miggz]

I find with Peach that it's fairly easy to read her, because of how easily Fox can react to the situation. If she's being defensive, you can either laser (depending on distance) or do what I do and just activate super technical beam and run in, don't miss l cancels and **** with shine and grabs. As soon as you get her in the air, bair is ****, and up smash either beats or ties with all of her aerials. Again, if she's being really aggressive, up smash out of shield is really broken. I dunno, I don't find peach as threatening as I used to, mostly because you beat her with combos, you beat her with priority and you beat her with options. I find the best approach to peach is actually not camping, but to be very aggressive. Look for up smash and grab opportunities. This matchup is really about having a good push-and-pull game, so if you can land your kicks and grabs, and can think your way out of her tricks (because her punishment game is good vs Fox), then it's your game.

EDIT: People were asking about Falco earlier, and I mean...you could go on forever about possible strategies for getting around them, but there's never an easy way through things in this game. You just have to think. Jump over their lasers, whatever, but if they start using up tilt, just stop using aerials because that move beats all your aerials. Punishment comes easily, since Falco gets comboed like he's your ***** once you get a shine or grab.

Honestly, all you can do for now is watch and react, and try to think of a way to get out of the pressure. There are no answers in words, because it works differently for everyone, but it will come to you.

EDIT2: There's one more thing I should say here, and that is to address the myth that Falco has control during the match. The only thing he has control over, in truth, is whether or not he approaches, and there's nothing you can do about that.

Wow.

Well said Grmo.

Double edit for the win.

^^;

 

[(*Jman*)]

i want to help can i help guys =D

 

[Grmo]

lol thanks Miggz

also holy ****, Jman! TELL US YOUR SECRETS

 

[Miggz]

i want to help can i help guys =D

Oh AND you're a Naruto fan?!

Oh yeah of course dude!! XD

 

[Meneks]

mostly because you beat her with combos, you beat her with priority and you beat her with options. I find the best approach to peach is actually not camping, but to be very aggressive.

Well said, I totally agree with you. because of the fact that many peach players that play fox assume that the fox player is going to camp, that sort of puts them in a effort to stop the fox from camping
but when you flip the switch and become aggressive it pretty much throws them off..
Basically making them panic, and when you panic you tend to **** up...ALOT.
just learn to shine and grab with fox and your bound to **** any peach..

 

[Grmo]

My vs Peach game is a lot like that rofl. I counterpick to poke floats a lot and when I've got that much space to move around in, I can basically switch between campy and aggro as often as I want. It's amazing how much it screws with people. Like, last tournament I went to, this guy was so confused that when I jump on to his unknown (I forget how to spell it), he just ran off and died.

 

[Geist]

I have a problem with consistantly sh out of shine quick enough so I can't get shield grabbed. I ff my arials when I do get a sh out, but if I screw up on my sh, i don't ff, and then my l cancel goes to hell, resulting me in getting punished.
I have a friend who tells me I should sh out of shine with the control stick, but I wanted to ask what other people do.

 

[Grmo]

I short hop out by pressing X if I ever have to, but more often I prefer to shine directly out of shield because it tends to hit people more. but yeah, I basically just press X, then nair. I dunno, just practice and find out what works for you. Try using a jump button; somehow I imagine it will be much easier than using the control stick.

 

[Tomacawk]

I short hop out by pressing X if I ever have to, but more often I prefer to shine directly out of shield because it tends to hit people more. but yeah, I basically just press X, then nair. I dunno, just practice and find out what works for you. Try using a jump button; somehow I imagine it will be much easier than using the control stick.

Well, I actually use the control stick to do shield pressure with fox. The way I do it is if I'm doing shine->aerial->fflcancel, then I use the control stick because I can do it faster and more consistently than using Y.
But if I'm doing drillshines across a stage on like peach/marth, I use Y, instead, because it is more comfortable with the dashes in between shines.
With falco, I always use Y.
Just get comfortable with it. I used to think I would NEVER jump with the stick, but I found that I was more comfortable using it and made my controls a lot more efficient, which actually has helped me stay consistent in tourny play (going all bananas every game would tire out my wrist)

 

[EWC]

Thunder's combo from ledge, As in shine->edge waveland->jab, is ****. Discuss.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peppy already told us how to beat Peach.

Just shoot it Fox!

 

[cykofox]

i <3 grmo.

 

[Meneks]

Thunder's combo from ledge, As in shine->edge waveland->jab, is ****. Discuss.

I dont think i have ever seen that done but i can imagine it..
video link?

 

[Grmo]

Thunder's combo from ledge, As in shine->edge waveland->jab, is ****. Discuss.

Well, for that to work out, the ****** would have to be standing on the edge with nothing in mind. If they're that stupid, then I'm positive you don't have to put that much effort in to it. Otherwise, I can't imagine a situation where said leprous ****** would actually be standing there without trying to attack you, and there's no way to abuse invincibility efficiently enough so as not to be hit while trying to attempt your flashy **** slap.

Besides, I don't think you can do it fast enough off the ledge, because you only barely get the jab without forward momentum anyway, so the ****** would be out of your reach and will happily go off wandering around shooting their lasers, and you don't get a medal for being able to apply social Darwinism to smash. Here is the result:

and as you can see, there isn't much time left, and leprous ****** becomes the bane of your existence. Congratulations, you are now a victim of hag syndrome.

Peppy already told us how to beat Peach.

Just shoot it Fox!

It's amazing how much that applies to Fox playing rofl. See: my matches on Poke Floats. I'm sure you remember

i <3 grmo.

grmzo loves you too

 

[MarsFool!]

I have some videos to put of my fox vs XIF's peach. Then you guys can help me figure out why Im not consistently ****** him.