Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[SnowballBob33]

Do you people realize what you are saying? MK is a quick fix. If you are losing, and your main has an even matchup, you pick metaknight to cover your weakness. MK is very easily abusable. Spam whorenado, space fair, gimp. You don't see people just randomly picking diddy kong or snake as a counter pick. They take time to learn and and master. Sure your character has a weakness, but if your opponent doesn't main that person that you are bad againt, then you are pretty much on fair playing field. But if they do pick that person who ***** your character, then you can always switch out. That game of CP ends with MK.

Here's an example (I'm not 100% sure on these matchups but pay attention):
Samus v Luigi
Luigi loses the first match by 2 stocks
Now its time to CP. Samus is countered by Fox, Ice climbers, Ness, Wario, and MK, and goes even with Wolf, Mario, and Diddy, and DK.
The only other people the luigi is good with is Sonic, Wolf, and DK.
What should happen is the Luigi CP his Samus with DK.
DK wins the next game by a stock.
Then the DK stays and Samus CPs Dedede
The Samus wins the set
This doesn't get the chance to happen though because we have the option of MK. The second match Luigi CPs MK. The second match still goes to him. Then in the last match its the Samus' turn to CP. It's no longer about choosing a character to help you because nothing will help. Samus' best option is to do a MK ditto and hope for the best.

This may not happen all the time, but it happens a fair amount. Things would be much different if MK was not an option. The Luigi would have to learn a character that gets around DeDeDe to be able to do well. So the luigi picks up kirby. Uhoh, now the samus has to pick up marth... and this keeps going

Even if a character may not go up on the tier list, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be better. Situations like this wouldn't occur where a person is stuck.

Now people are thinking, isn't snake going to be the next MK? NO!!! Snake has his flaws. Once he is above you, he is forced to do things which may get him punished ie. bair, cook nade. MK will tornado, air camp, glide to the most unreachable points, or just plain disappear. When snake camps, it is up to you to out think him and avoid his trickery. When MK camps, you pray his wings get tired or has mercy on you. When you get snake off the stage, you chase him and hope to kill him early. When MK is off the stage you....... I don't think it's possible to get snaked banned. In a game without MK, he would be similar to melee fox.

 

[Zolios]

 

[Deadweight]

He was saying this because Meta Knight is a Top Tier character. Top Tier character usually have the traits of having more good matchups than characters below them. They also usually have the traits of being generally good.

Wario ( A high tier charachter) has bad matchups across the board. Peach, Yoshi * Infinite Allowed* Rob (Theres probably more im too lazy to look)

The tier list doesn't justify the ban. Over centralization of the metagame in combination with breaking CP systems and all that other good stuff Pro Ban was saying does.
It just so happens all of this leads to MK becoming top tier

 

[Baro]

Jeez, guys. Stop using specific players in arguments. Everyone is different.

 

[Deadweight]

I'm saying this because out of those 22%, a big chunk has been taken by Mew2King. That his results would look less "vicious" if you took off Mew2King's results.
That's why I'm saying.

If you took the best player from each charachter and took them off the results....
MK would More than likely still have a commanding lead imo

 

[Rykoshet]

Everyone, something tells me we shouldn't be focusing on the banishment on MK. I think we should be focusing on advancing the metagame so that the game will last enough for us to see the results of banning or not banning him. From what I've seen the only change since Janurary 2009 is that the Zamus's play styles have been updated.

If I am wrong(and I hope I am) please explain and show me what has changed in the Metagame since Janurary 2009.

Why is it that every time you post it comes off as ignorant and mind numblingly annoying as when you blather on in person, if not moreso.

Do you pay attention to ANY characters aside from your mains?

 

[∫unk]

why do ppl still talk about standing infinites they haven't been legal for over 6+ months at legit tournaments.

seriously though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM_6ZqhCNWc

that's me vs warpstatus, currently best zss on the wc

i have terrible spacing, and in general am just spamming with mk... my patterns are really predictable but i don't care cause its working. would this work against a fiction level player? probably not, but warp status is ranked in socal, and a mediocre mk is ****** him. i'm not even trying my hardest with him cause i don't need too :/

in comparison, my marth spaces much better but has a much harder time.

i realize this is just one example but i've experieneced this a LOT, especially because i'm around warp's level so in tournament i'm reaching other people around this level. mk is sooo safe and lenient on mistakes because of his overwhelming relative frame advantage over other characters.

 

[*_Echo_*]

Well, I can't say what he thinks, neither can you. So I'll just leave it at that.

i never said i did and neither do u, so u cant say it was for personal reasons and im sure if some one who can beat MKs and wants him banned, im sure its not personal

 

[ItoxBlade]

I cant see M2K wining with D3

 

[UberMario]

Do you people realize what you are saying? MK is a quick fix. If you are losing, and your main has an even matchup, you pick metaknight to cover your weakness. MK is very easily abusable. Spam whorenado, space fair, gimp.

Not necessarily. Of all the characters that I play, the only one I can't win with consistently with is Meta. BTW, Tornado is shieldable and only takes away about 20% of your shield, which is almost unnoticable.
Besides, meta has issues when battled with in the center of the stage, his air game when he's directly above or below is pretty counterable aswell.

 

[SOVAman]

LOL

wow xD

 

[iRJi]

Your logic is unphathomably corrupt.



Who says you can't counterpick him? And also if he was broken, he would be unbeatable in top level matches. If the best meta-knight in the world isn't the best player, does that not mean meta-knight must not be broken?

He actually doesnt have a C/P. I been over this before, facts and all. T osimply state that he has even matchups is one thing, but to say he can be Counter Picked is another. He has even matchups, but no Counter picks.

 

[Azuzu]

I cant see M2K wining with D3

I do. Especially with a secondary to cover bad MUs and no one else playing metaknight. He might not reach his current dominance, but I'd say he'd still be a top 5 player in the game, instead of easily #1.

 

[Clai]

Hold on, didn't Ally beat m2k? Stop using Ally as justification for MK not being banned. Stop saying "Ally beats m2k so Snake is better than MK and MK shouldn't be banned." There are so many things wrong with this that I can only mention some of them (besides individual players, outside influences, etc.). Ally > metaknight > snake is NOT a valid argument for either side. Why?

Ally is good at this game. He knows how to punish people, he does not miss powershields, he has great DI, and he doesn't put himself into positions where he can be killed easily (hence why he blows himself up and takes damage instead of gets KO'd). But you know what? His Falcon does the same thing. Sure, his falcon doesn't pull out grenades or kill with up tilt easily, but Ally still reads his opponent and reacts to patterns quickly. In this sense, Ally is no different with Snake than Anther is with Pikachu (etc.) So please stop using Ally and/or sandbagging as excuses or even valid arguments.

There are other points in both sides which I could argue/debunk, but I guess I'll stop here for now.

Yes, please ignore the blantant evidence that there are players in this game that can adapt to and beat even the best Metaknight's strategies. Let's throw out every instance where Metaknight, even with this 'broken' moves and 'broken' tactics, is beaten because a player used superior strategies. Let's also ignore the fact that campy Metaknights get beaten, aggressive Metaknights get beaten, balanced Metaknights get beaten, they all get beaten by superior strategies.

Why are we not allowed to use Ally as proof for the anti-ban side again? Because Ally is too good of a player to follow the general trend that Metaknight wins too much?

BULL ****!!!

We should instead be using Ally as an inspiration. An inspiration that if we use our characters to the very best of their abilities, they can win against whatever odds are given to them. We get so caught up in "MK invalidates Marth because he can do everything that Marth can, but better," that we forget that it's the players that harness each character's abilities and put them to use. Do we see cases where top players lose to clearly inferior players solely because they use Metaknight? No, we don't. Most of the time, these top players lose to other top players because their character is better, and that's only when the top players know exactly what to do in order to counter the other player's character (mind you, Mew2King was a strong hit or 2 away from getting swept 3-0 by MikeHAZE at Evo).

The question we need to ask ourselves is: Does Metaknight invalidate the cast to the point where he can easily win tournaments with little knowledge about how to fight the other characters? I don't think so.

@Tudor: How does Samus lose to the whorenado? Doesn't her z-air stop it? I know I don't know much about the character, but I thought Samus has the tools (sheilding when MK gets close, z-airing when MK's far away) to stop it. What are your troubles with this move?

 

[Baro]

Maybe the pro-ban side should be the pro-quit side.

Meta Knight is not a secret or boss character. He's just... a character. If one has to make a change as drastic as saying 'no, you can't pick him', maybe the game just isn't good. Of course, the community can make a competitive ruleset, but jeez, guys.

 

[gantrain05]

Not necessarily. Of all the characters that I play, the only one I can't win with consistently with is Meta. BTW, Tornado is shieldable and only takes away about 20% of your shield, which is almost unnoticable.
Besides, meta has issues when battled with in the center of the stage, his air game when he's directly above or below is pretty counterable aswell.

20% of your shield, ok and so unless you are like 5 certain chars how are you going to punish? point is, even if you CAN shield it, you can't effectively stop it. You might get lucky once in a while, but if MK is being unpredictable with it like he should be he's going to eat your shield enough that he can shield stab with other moves like Dtilt or Dair.

 

[UberMario]

So Ubermario, you fail on two accounts

1) unphathom? Try F instead of ph
2) What about that is wrong? Are you seriously saying that if Ally's CF beat m2k's MK then MK wouldn't be banned or that CF would?

1) My bad, I was thinking of "phantom" at the time.
2) The person that claims that I fail fails to make a logical sentence.

 

[Rykoshet]

Who says you can't counterpick him? And also if he was broken, he would be unbeatable in top level matches. If the best meta-knight in the world isn't the best player, does that not mean meta-knight must not be broken?

People are making this big *** deal that ally is now 2 and 2 or 2 and 3 or what the **** ever with m2k or some **** and think it's some big *** revolution for the game.

It isn't. The very FIRST time m2k played ally he later dropped by and said that in friendlies they pretty much went even. It comes as no surprise that as ally got better and time progressed that their record might *gasp* even out. Mother ****er lost the very next week. This is the same **** as when NL went 2-0 on m2k then it took people forever to realize that when jason finally picked up on him he straight up mopped the floor with diddy kong.

For the love of god stop it.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Not necessarily. Of all the characters that I play, the only one I can't win with consistently with is Meta. BTW, Tornado is shieldable and only takes away about 20% of your shield, which is almost unnoticable.
Besides, meta has issues when battled with in the center of the stage, his air game when he's directly above or below is pretty counterable aswell.

Come on now, really? He's not a problem because you can't win with him?

his air game is amazing. Have you met his air planking? The magic of 6 jumps is that you don't have to be "directly above or below" the opponent for long at all, not to mention how those spots aren't "pretty counterable" to begin with, at least for 3/4 of the cast (unless than was a pun on the word "counter")

 

[Jem.]

I didn't know m2k was easily number 1 above Ally. If anything they're pretty even (Whats their set score for tournament wins vs each other now in finals, 2-2?)

but yeah, looks like a pretty even voting, which means MK won't get banned, even though we all know this isn't even the official poll.

keep on qq'in pro-banners.

 

[Baro]

If Meta Knight is so good, WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY HIM?

 

[ItoxBlade]

MK just have too many options... <-< he is broken we have to face it

 

[Red Arremer]

but yeah, looks like a pretty even voting, which means MK won't get banned, even though we all know this isn't even the official poll.

It is the official poll.

 

[gantrain05]

If Meta Knight is so good, WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY HIM?

oh that was good, flawless logic here.

 

[Baro]

oh that was good, flawless logic here.

Answer my question.

 

[DanGR]

why do ppl still talk about standing infinites they haven't been legal for over 6+ months at legit tournaments.

seriously though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM_6ZqhCNWc

that's me vs warpstatus, currently best zss on the wc

i have terrible spacing, and in general am just spamming with mk... my patterns are really predictable but i don't care cause its working. would this work against a fiction level player? probably not, but warp status is ranked in socal, and a mediocre mk is ****** him. i'm not even trying my hardest with him cause i don't need too :/

in comparison, my marth spaces much better but has a much harder time.

i realize this is just one example but i've experieneced this a LOT, especially because i'm around warp's level so in tournament i'm reaching other people around this level. mk is sooo safe and lenient on mistakes because of his overwhelming relative frame advantage over other characters.

That doesn't matter.

He's not a top player.

>_____>

Spoiler

(That was sarcasm if you couldn't catch it.)

 

[Rykoshet]

Answer my question.

Because people are stupid. You can come up with any reason you want but if your goal when you put money into an event isnt to make money out of the event and you don't pick the character that is by design the most capable of doing so, you're stupid.

 

[Sosuke]

If Meta Knight is so good, WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY HIM?

Oh man. Really now?

hahahahahaha

 

[fkacyan]

The scientific community would slap you both for being silly.

Scientific community uses theory, supportable theory. Not theory by definition as you are using it.

Who the hell said that I used theory by definition?

Theory supported by data, kthx.

 

[Baro]

Oh man. Really now?

hahahahahaha

Yes. Really, now.

 

[gantrain05]

Answer my question.

possibly because some people really don't like MK, maybe some people just aren't good with him, maybe alot of things, i can't speak for why everyone doesn't just play MK lol.

i personally don't play him because i don't need to, i do great with peach, she can deal with her tough matchups so i have no reason to need to CP.

 

[Rykoshet]

possibly because some people really don't like MK, maybe some people just aren't good with him, maybe alot of things, i can't speak for why everyone doesn't just play MK lol.

i personally don't play him because i don't need to, i do great with peach, she can deal with her tough matchups so i have no reason to need to CP.

Stupidity.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Because people are stupid. You can come up with any reason you want but if your goal when you put money into an event isnt to make money out of the event and you don't pick the character that is by design the most capable of doing so, you're stupid.

This, though I probably would have put it into less blunt terms.

Also, for the same reason that people, myself included, still go to tournaments whether or NOT MK is banned. Though I do feel that he has too many advantages, I still go to have fun *gasp, fun!* and to meet other people *gasp, other people!* about 54% of the community looks down on people who play MK anyway, which hurts both points of choosing to go to tournaments. I'm still farsighted enough to see the effect MK is having on other people besides just myself, and I do realize that if I were to start going to tournaments every single weekend, I would be losing a LOT more money (as Ryko says) than if I started playing MK as my tourney attendance increased

 

[gantrain05]

Stupidity.

well thats your opinion, but honestly if you think its stupid to not play MK, then you obviously think he should be banned lol.

 

[Sosuke]

Reasons to pick MK:
He's the best character in the game
You can't win with current character

Reasons not to pick MK:
You're naturally BETTER with your main
You're out to prove something
YOU LIKE YOUR MAIN (reason I use my character)

 

[Sasha]

Unfortunate:

Pro-ban has better writers/debaters,

but I agree with Anti-ban.

 

[MarKO X]

If Meta Knight is so good, WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY HIM?

For the same reason people don't pick the "best" stuff (characters, cars, teams, etc.) in other competitive games.

I'll leave you to ponder that.

 

[Belmont]

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaags.

 

[UberMario]

Come on now, really? He's not a problem because you can't win with him?

his air game is amazing. Have you met his air planking? The magic of 6 jumps is that you don't have to be "directly above or below" the opponent for long at all, not to mention how those spots aren't "pretty counterable" to begin with, at least for 3/4 of the cast (unless than was a pun on the word "counter")

I was mentioning the fact that someone said that if you're losing MK is the way to go. Which most of the time is not the case. His air speed is his largest bane, and most of his kills are on the ground or from gimping.

 

[Rykoshet]

well thats your opinion, but honestly if you think its stupid to not play MK, then you obviously think he should be banned lol.

It's undeniable truth to be honest. People don't show up to nascar in mother ****in' power wheels. You don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight. Etc etc etc.

You're naturally BETTER with your main

Because you made the unfortunately stupid choice of putting in more time with your worse character than you put into Meta Knight.

You're out to prove something

Pride is just a synonym for stupidity.

YOU LIKE YOUR MAIN (reason I use my character)

When women take **** because theyre with a deadbeat that isn't providing, "BUT I LIKE HIM" doesn't solve much, just sayin'