FL General Rules Discussion: Brawl

[OverLade]

and how come?

u cant just say "being realistic" as if thats some sort of argument

Well, "being realistic", basically based on what actually happens, rather than what's fair or "equal" for all. IC's can be beaten even with the infinite, but winning a D3 infinite matchup doesn't seem to happen.

Galluda/Lain/Hylian don't dominate their regions, but Bum wouldn't win in NY if Anti and Basic could infinite him.

 

[Life After Death]

if banning infinites makes the game more competitively balance why not ban all infinites lol.

 

[OverLade]

if banning infinites makes the game more competitively balance why not ban all infinites lol.

I think banning D3s makes the game more competitive, but banning IC's doesn't really. It's actually a lot of fun fighting Galluda because the whole "omg if I get grabbed" **** in the back of your head makes you play smarter.

But in that case we should ban every stage but FD/SV/BF, along with Metaknight and Dedede.

**** would prolly be more epic that way though.

 

[FlatSoda]

if banning infinites makes the game more competitively balance why not ban all infinites lol.

t h i s

 

[mkGmoney]

Or we could just play the game for what it is...

 

[Lawlmahbawls]

Or we could just play the game for what it is...

qft

If the DDD infinite ***** you so much, then pick up Oli as a secondary.

 

[CO18]

Dedede's infinites create like 6 impossible matchups, ics infinite is just part of their normal game and they have 0 broken matchups, there best is like 7:3 and they have alaot of bad matchups.

The 2 best Ic's players don't even dominate their region and they know how to infinite easily.

 

[Master Raven]

I think the IC's infinite should be kept on the basis that it's possible to disable it.

You can't disable or at least cripple DDD's infinite so I think it should be banned.

 

[Coffee™]

Dedede's infinites create like 6 impossible matchups, ics infinite is just part of their normal game and they have 0 broken matchups, there best is like 7:3 and they have alaot of bad matchups.

Uh...the D3 Infinite is also part of his "normal" game against 6 characters lol. We shouldnt be making an exception simply because D3 is just a better character on a whole without the infinite.

Also what about all the other infinites. Like Zard and Marth on Ness / Lucas or Zss and Ike on Wario.

Gotta start being consistent sometime.

 

[OverLade]

Uh...the D3 Infinite is also part of his "normal" game against 6 characters lol. We shouldnt be making an exception simply because D3 is just a better character on a whole without the infinite.

Also what about all the other infinites. Like Zard and Marth on Ness / Lucas or Zss and Ike on Wario.

Gotta start being consistent sometime.

Ness infintes are deconfirmed.

And those infinites should be banned. IC's infinite should be an exception because seperating the IC's negates it, and IC's arent hard to seperate.

 

[nevershootme]

I think banning D3s makes the game more competitive, but banning IC's doesn't really. It's actually a lot of fun fighting Galluda because the whole "omg if I get grabbed" **** in the back of your head makes you play smarter.

But in that case we should ban every stage but FD/SV/BF, along with Metaknight and Dedede.

**** would prolly be more epic that way though.

i rofl at this and i wish it was true, but it will never happen

 

[Deleted member]

stop using preferences as empirical data

the grab release infinite on ness is 100% confirmed to work.

 

[Masky]

nm... what's up

 

[Ruse]

IC + CG = decent

IC - CG = utter s***

D3 + standing CG = broken

D3 - standing CG = broken (still)

 

[OverLade]

stop using preferences as empirical data

the grab release infinite on ness is 100% confirmed to work.

Extra inch DI? Are you sure? I thought they D/Ced it a while back. Either way just ban it.

 

[Lizard]

Ness and Lucas are still pi$$ed at Sakurai for doing them so wrong

 

[GDX]

Ness and Lucas are still pi$$ed at Sakurai for doing them so wrong

lol

yea, any infinites confirmed to work on ness/lucas and any infinites that D3 does should be banned. Then again, those are the rules that are used OOS anyway (standing infinites banned or something like that..everything except IC)

 

[yummynbeefy]

why not ban wall infinites?

i know its only like 2 levels but still

 

[Master Raven]

I don't know if this is the appropriate time to discuss this but I've come up with a simple criteria regarding the infinites.

If there is a way to at least cripple or disable an infinite in any way, such as the ICs (seperating them and/or killing Nana), then it should be left in. Infinites that you absolutely cannot do anything about such as DDD's on the other hand should be banned.

 

[Rx-]

Does that criteria apply to anyone that isn't the Ice Climbers?

 

[FlatSoda]

wall infinites won't happen on a neutral, and often on a stage that's counterpicked.
in of course, characters can be switched.

so there's that on wall infinites.


IC's CG shouldn't be banned. aside from how much skill is put into it, it can still be broken by seperating na and po.

debuuuuunked,

rx when are we gonna talk about music, and ponder about life while eating dodge city subs?

it has to happen!!!

 

[petey_did_it]

do we have standing infinites or planking banned yet? some1 told me infinites were

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Okay...here is how i stand on the infinites

DDD can infinite any time at any % under any circumstances (Besides moving platforms or stage hazards, most of which are banned in tournament anyway). Against those 6 characters, you are not allowed to get grabbed or it is an automatic stock. Against IC, you have to play smart, but you can separate nana. Once you separate her, the CG becomes impossible, and you can easily kill her and prevent it that stock. Lots of characters have moves that can easily separate them and therefore stop the chaingrab, and you can even do it from far. Also, things needed to make somebody's grab game good...ICs do not have. They have a slow running speed, are slidy if you hit their shield (So most likely they can't shield grab you) and they have a bad grab range. DDD has a great grab-range, doesn't slide, and although he has a slow run speed, he can make that up by just getting in their face and using his range to shut down their other options. Therefore, DDDs infinite should be banned and ICs shouldn't. DDD has proven to still be a great character without it, while IC suffers without their grab shenanigans.

Grab release infinites are a different issue however. I think that you aren't allowed to grab release infinite anybody passed 75%. Grab release CGs that you have to run in between the grabs are fine, because you can't just stand and do it forever. Grab release infinites are somewhat easy to do and one grab can equal death, much like DDDs grab infinites or ICs.

Also, the ledge-grab rule is perfect and i think should be implemented. Nick Riddle and I keep all the Florida CPs on. On norfair, if we aren't trying to camp, we only get like...20-25 ledge-grabs, on the level most susceptible to ledge-camping. The only way you will get close to 50 is if you are deliberately planking. People just ledge-stalling to get pressure away from them will only grab the ledge about 7 times...and i'm pretty sure you won't have to do it that many times to get a 50 grab limit. You also won't get hit off of the level that many times...so that isn't an issue

For the suicide moves, lower % wins, always. If you are winning, just because they killed themselves (with you) doesn't mean they should win. You should be able to mash out fast enough so they won't be able to kill you anyway, its not that hard.

 

[Snipa4800]

IC's CG shouldn't be banned. aside from how much skill is put into it, it can still be broken by seperating na and po.

This ^
Banning ice climbers infinite would be complete bs.
Not getting grabbed by them is simple.
I main them , and any decent player I fight easily separates nana from me.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well 75% isn't death % but its not taking it out entirely.

 

[OverLade]

Okay...here is how i stand on the infinites

DDD can infinite any time at any % under any circumstances (Besides moving platforms or stage hazards, most of which are banned in tournament anyway). Against those 6 characters, you are not allowed to get grabbed or it is an automatic stock. Against IC, you have to play smart, but you can separate nana. Once you separate her, the CG becomes impossible, and you can easily kill her and prevent it that stock. Lots of characters have moves that can easily separate them and therefore stop the chaingrab, and you can even do it from far. Also, things needed to make somebody's grab game good...ICs do not have. They have a slow running speed, are slidy if you hit their shield (So most likely they can't shield grab you) and they have a bad grab range. DDD has a great grab-range, doesn't slide, and although he has a slow run speed, he can make that up by just getting in their face and using his range to shut down their other options. Therefore, DDDs infinite should be banned and ICs shouldn't. DDD has proven to still be a great character without it, while IC suffers without their grab shenanigans.

Grab release infinites are a different issue however. I think that you aren't allowed to grab release infinite anybody passed 75%. Grab release CGs that you have to run in between the grabs are fine, because you can't just stand and do it forever. Grab release infinites are somewhat easy to do and one grab can equal death, much like DDDs grab infinites or ICs.

Also, the ledge-grab rule is perfect and i think should be implemented. Nick Riddle and I keep all the Florida CPs on. On norfair, if we aren't trying to camp, we only get like...20-25 ledge-grabs, on the level most susceptible to ledge-camping. The only way you will get close to 50 is if you are deliberately planking. People just ledge-stalling to get pressure away from them will only grab the ledge about 7 times...and i'm pretty sure you won't have to do it that many times to get a 50 grab limit. You also won't get hit off of the level that many times...so that isn't an issue

For the suicide moves, lower % wins, always. If you are winning, just because they killed themselves (with you) doesn't mean they should win. You should be able to mash out fast enough so they won't be able to kill you anyway, its not that hard.

Meh, I think the ledgegrab rule still has a loophole.

Lets say it's 70 ledgegrabs. The idea of the rule is that planking doesn't force you to approach your opponent because they can't do it forever.

Well if you dont approach your opponent...then that means they dont have to regrab the ledge as often....
So if Falco in on the other side of FD, MK can simply hang on the ledge and only regrab it when he automatically falls, which is like every 20 seconds.

This means if Falco want's MK to grab the ledge enough to get DQed, he has to actually approach, which defeats half the purpose of the rule. People can still run the timer, unless your opponent approaches the ledge, which for the most part is what you want because you can put them at a disadvantage.

This rule negates the usefulness of planking with any character except MK....which doesn't really help, because MK can **** almost any character trying to approach him while he's on the ledge.

I think the ledgegrab rule needs a bit more fine tuning before it's ready for people willing to try and abuse it...not that anyone has, but it technicall has a loophole...

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But red, what you have to understand is that calling a judge over is completely biased. Unless you can get exactly what constitutes planking, there is no way to enforce that. If we do, then it is easy. have everybody hack their wii and when somebody is accusing another person of planking, save it, call a judge, then have them watch the replay. But we can't do that until we have a 100% solid definition of planking that doesn't shift based on who you are calling over.

 

[OverLade]

But red, what you have to understand is that calling a judge over is completely biased. Unless you can get exactly what constitutes planking, there is no way to enforce that. If we do, then it is easy. have everybody hack their wii and when somebody is accusing another person of planking, save it, call a judge, then have them watch the replay. But we can't do that until we have a 100% solid definition of planking that doesn't shift based on who you are calling over.

No don't get me wrong, I think trying to call a judge over is a ridiculous idea.

I just think we have to be careful about how the rule is worded because people will still find ways around it. I support the ledgegrab rule, but I think we'll need a lower number, more like 35-40.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well yeah start from 50 and go down. 70 is DEFINITELY too much.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Again, that is why the number needs tweaking. There are a certain amount of ledgegrabs that can be used legitimately in a way like that, but there comes a point where that number becomes ridiculous, and can only happen from camping. I think that starts at like 45 or 40.

 

[AfroQT]

um... but what if the opponent is applying legitimate ledge pressure (IE: grenades + C4 + mortars + tilts) and my choice is either to get hit or wait for an opening to return to the stage?

No amoutn of grenades + c4 + mortars can cover all optiosn for more then like...1 ledgegrab.

 

[Noa.]

I think that a ledge grab limit should just be 35. I practically always grab the ledge less than 10 per match, and ESAM said that he only grabbed the ledge around 25 times on Norfair. 35 seems to be mostly reasonable.

 

[Master Raven]

Keep in mind the 70 grab rule only applies to the Japanese settings, which has the timer at 10 minutes. It'd be reasonable to lower the limit by our standards.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

That would make it 50 raven.

 

[PolMex23]

I still say the "If I notice your planking ima say somthin to you an if you continue I will punch you square in the face" is the best course of action

xD xD xD, thats how tampa does it

 

[nevershootme]

I still say the "If I notice your planking ima say somthin to you an if you continue I will punch you square in the face" is the best course of action

xD xD xD, thats how tampa does it

dude. i keep telling my friends if something like this happens... in a few steps

1. If you notice planking, pause the game
2. Put the controller down gently
3. Stare at your opponent for 5 seconds
4. Clinch your fist and imagine it as a drill
5. Charge your fist to full blast
6. Scream, "GIGGGAAAAA, DRRRRIIIILLLLLL BREEAAAKKKKERERRRR!!!!!"
7. Fist blows through face, person is dead..
8. Reap and win the profits that he just got DQ'd

 

[Finch]

Honestly the best solution is to remove the time limit. I don't see any reason to ledgecamp with it off.

 

[PolMex23]

Honestly the best solution is to remove the time limit. I don't see any reason to ledgecamp with it off.

This is a great idea, but characters with superior aerial movement will just "camp" forever...so...

=(....

But planking should somehow be stopped