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Q&A Falco Q&A
- Thread starter Mogwai
- Start date
So what's the next lesson?
I dunno, someone suggested recovery so I may do a short write up on that. If anyone has a more interesting suggestion, I'll do it instead.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Why not? Its flashy and fox can do **** out of grabs.
If you meant falco, then I dont think anyone is arguing that its the best or even a good option but somebody asked if it was an option.
Speculation says, it would be difficult and require special circumstances. It still looks kinda cool. do it in a friendly or somethin
puckgood
Smash Journeyman
Suggestions for next lesson: Grab combos, ledgeguarding, miscellanious tricksies (firefox stall, ledgecancel, dair through platform etc.), off stage gimps, recovery, and a matchup list. You could supplement your counterpick list with the matchup list.
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Lol. I say basic comboing against each "weight class" for the next lesson.
Meneks
Smash Lord
What about uthrow?
metashinryu
Smash Ace
uthrow dair is 1337
also:im having some problems to jump outta shine and hit with aerials(dair)to shine again,i always wavedash outta shine then go for aerial,i dunno if its hitlag or something that doesnt lemme go from the shine,also when i shine-dair someone i have trouble for shine them again,cuz my dair gets to ground slow to be autocanceled but not as fast to be l cancelled,some friend of mine uses shine-shine dair and he says its easier to perform,should i use this instead? or what can i do bout it?
sorry if my message isnt very clarified,i speak spanish
Actually dair doesn't work very often at high level play, but if the enemy chokes and ****s up his Di then go for it.
i was told that not even uthrow --> FJ Bair/Nair is guaranted if the enemy SDIs the lasers of the uthrow. I'm not sure if this is true tho.
@metashinryu: That sounds like you jump too soon (when you hit somebody with your shine)
Just wait a moment.
Same for the dair thingy: Jump --> wait a moment --> dair --> ff --> lcancel -->shine
If you start the dair as you are rising its hard to make it combo
i was told that not even uthrow --> FJ Bair/Nair is guaranted if the enemy SDIs the lasers of the uthrow. I'm not sure if this is true tho.
@metashinryu: That sounds like you jump too soon (when you hit somebody with your shine)
Just wait a moment.
Same for the dair thingy: Jump --> wait a moment --> dair --> ff --> lcancel -->shine
If you start the dair as you are rising its hard to make it combo
metashinryu
Smash Ace
you sir have just killed me,i dair as soon as i jump XD
We were talking about Falco. it is a Falco thread after all...
Matchup List may happen at some point. I'll probably lump recovery and edgeguarding together for the next lesson as both are fairly straightforward and come from experience and knowing good general practices.
This is entirely true.
well of course it's character dependent, but for all characters...
this is true. Cort does it and you basically have to guess which way he's going to SDI, it's really hard to follow up. Characters also get out of laser hit stun faster than throw hitstun, so when they get hit by lasers, they typically have a window to get an aerial out earlier than anything you can follow up with.
yea, stop that. it's a hard habit to break, but you simply have to suck it up and do it or you'll get wrecked.
Proverbs
Smash Lord
Mogwai, I have a mildly abstract question. I'm thinking of picking up Falco, but I'm just not sure where to start. The technical aspect is no problem for me, but since I haven't played a lot of good Falcos, I'm not sure exactly how to play him...Any suggestions for where to start? I've been browsing pieces of the first post for a while as I've tried to learn him, but there seems to be a lot of information there when I just don't even know where to start.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
lazers,wavedashes,shine,learn that stuff in that order and then mix them up.
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
For shine to waveland onto another platform, is it best to use the control stick for both jumping out of the shine as well as the waveland (it's quicker this way), or just using X/Y for the jumping part?
I use x/y/control stick, so it really doesn't matter which, but I was wondering which is "standard", or most easiest?
I'm thinking of taking Falco as a secondary (Fox is my main), so it would seem that learning this would be beneficial.
I use x/y/control stick, so it really doesn't matter which, but I was wondering which is "standard", or most easiest?
I'm thinking of taking Falco as a secondary (Fox is my main), so it would seem that learning this would be beneficial.
Proverbs, my advice would to just play people with your falco, and develop your own style of play.
Proverbs
Smash Lord
^That works, I guess. I'll figure it out.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
try jump with stick,shine(hold down-diagonal)jump with x/y+r,is easier that way i think.
It's whatever they are most comfortable with.
Why do people try and tell others what the best way to jump with is?
Why do people try and tell others what the best way to jump with is?
soap
Smash Hero
hearing other peoples preferences and the reason behind it is useful in trying stuff out.
i use control stick to cancel midair shines.
except if i wanna midair shine and then waveland on a plat. i use the button cuz it frees the stick up for the directional waveland.
rest of the time i use button on the ground unless i wanna fulljump insta-aerial out of shine
i use control stick to cancel midair shines.
except if i wanna midair shine and then waveland on a plat. i use the button cuz it frees the stick up for the directional waveland.
rest of the time i use button on the ground unless i wanna fulljump insta-aerial out of shine
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
This. After fiddling around I ended up doing exactly this.
Just took a bit of adjustment, since like you I cancel midairs shines with the control stick, and it works perfectly now.
I guess. I think it just makes more sense for people to work with what they are most comfortable with.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
It does but sometimes just hearing another thing is good. You dont know whats easiest or better for you until u have tried them all.
So its valid to ask to see how other ppl do it.
for example. I like to double shine but slidings my finger from B to X. like pushing B A X in that order. its easy and A does nothing while u are shining. lol
and of course I slide twice
yes, it's possible to dair too early
if you wait until the last possible frame, you can't get shield grabbed on the first dair -> shine, but after that shine, you will leave enough frames for most characters to be able to shield grab you either before or after your next aerial depending on the timing.
if you wait until the last possible frame, you can't get shield grabbed on the first dair -> shine, but after that shine, you will leave enough frames for most characters to be able to shield grab you either before or after your next aerial depending on the timing.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Mogsi lol.
whats your take on the falco jiggs matchup.
whats your take on the falco jiggs matchup.
it's even, you just go pew pew pew and space all game, and they pretty much can't touch you. but then when they do touch you, you die, whereas you don't kill them till 100+ with usmash/dtilt or 130+ with bair.
platforms are cool cause you can camp dair on platforms and she has a helluva time trying to approach you.
platforms are cool cause you can camp dair on platforms and she has a helluva time trying to approach you.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
haha pew pew good ****.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
What's up Mogs!? long time no see.. Nice job on the thread man.. keep the Falco world alive.. well yeah that's all i gotta say for now.. Air force life kinda sucks right now.. Keep up the good work!
deuces~
deuces~
the jiggs matchup is verrrrrrrrry even. the great part is that it's a natural matchup-lasers and aerials work pretty well. combos don't really work, but at a high level it's usually about spacing.
mogwai, can you explain an updated version of the ice climbers matchup? you can't camp icies cuz their iceblocks **** and the lasers hit nana half the time. it's hard to space them bc of the wd out of shield too. their chain grab might as well be a rest. in fact, i'd rather be rested than cg'ed cuz it's not as demoralizing.
edit: also, who does this matchup favor?
mogwai, can you explain an updated version of the ice climbers matchup? you can't camp icies cuz their iceblocks **** and the lasers hit nana half the time. it's hard to space them bc of the wd out of shield too. their chain grab might as well be a rest. in fact, i'd rather be rested than cg'ed cuz it's not as demoralizing.
edit: also, who does this matchup favor?
you can escape the dthrow -> dair chain grab by holding down and away on control stick, down on the C-stick and shield. Your buffer spot dodge will always come before their re-grab, at which point you can usually shine or if the spacing is bad, run away. Of course this is a problem if they just decide to smash you since you're DI is all f'ed up, but this is how you escape the CG.
I just ban FD and stay on platforms a lot vs ICs and just wait for them to try to do something and then punish with bair/dair. Once they're split up, you **** Nana and then camp Popo's balls off for the rest of the stock.
I just ban FD and stay on platforms a lot vs ICs and just wait for them to try to do something and then punish with bair/dair. Once they're split up, you **** Nana and then camp Popo's balls off for the rest of the stock.
wow, i seriously didn't know you could escape that CG. is there any timing about it or is just holding down and away? can fox do that too?
also, will their upair and uptilt outprioritize the dair? sometimes i feel like the dair spike can go through it.
yea, it works for both Fox and Falco. There's no timing involved as long as you have down and away held on the control stick when they throw you and R/L and c-stick down held when you land, you will escape due to the beauty of buffering.
your dair wins when you come in at an angle. if you come straight down, their hammer's disjointed hitbox will get you before your dair gets them, but if you come in at an angle, you completely avoid their utilt/uair hitbox and get em.
your dair wins when you come in at an angle. if you come straight down, their hammer's disjointed hitbox will get you before your dair gets them, but if you come in at an angle, you completely avoid their utilt/uair hitbox and get em.
Incronaut
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 610
so im having problem fighting low tier characters with my falco... because im not used to playing ganondorfs and links, i got schooled the other day even though i think i can beat them... any advice would be great..
also, i played them with my definitely not as good sheik and did a lot better which was sad...
also, i played them with my definitely not as good sheik and did a lot better which was sad...
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Low tiers are just like high tiers but worse. Easy.
State a specific character.
State a specific character.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
ok i got shine to stuff pretty consistently,by pracicing with fox O_o(only difference is that falcos shine takes a tiny bit longer to jump outta) weird but anyways i have some questions:
1)i can dair-shine as fast as i can but still get shieldgrabbed by some friend of mine,it gets me frustrated to see good falcos making them eat a shine everytime you try to grab them,how can i do that???
2) im practicing retreating lazers now,but sometimes i just f*cking illusion offstage,is there a specific button sequence for that or what? i run,do a moonwalk movement with stick as i jump, then press b,fastfall,im doin it right?
3)im picking falco as fox counterpick,but i cant do drillshine(im diying to say pillar,but thats for shield pressure right?) combos very well to him cuz he goes too low when i shine him(im practicing on lv1 cpu,its better than nothing...) what i can do about that?
1)i can dair-shine as fast as i can but still get shieldgrabbed by some friend of mine,it gets me frustrated to see good falcos making them eat a shine everytime you try to grab them,how can i do that???
2) im practicing retreating lazers now,but sometimes i just f*cking illusion offstage,is there a specific button sequence for that or what? i run,do a moonwalk movement with stick as i jump, then press b,fastfall,im doin it right?
3)im picking falco as fox counterpick,but i cant do drillshine(im diying to say pillar,but thats for shield pressure right?) combos very well to him cuz he goes too low when i shine him(im practicing on lv1 cpu,its better than nothing...) what i can do about that?
soap
Smash Hero
u dont moonwalk to do reverse lasers
just run jump, flick and release. KInda like pivoting.
just run jump, flick and release. KInda like pivoting.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
i do it like that to time it better,when i just flick the stick i REALLY mess up a lot of times more
1) check the first post, even frame perfect pillar will get shield grabbed. you must leave 20 frames of your opponent being out of shield stun between the shine and dair and dair and shine, so ideal distribution is 10 frames in each gap and most characters grab in under 10 frames. That being said, you're still probably not fast falling asap or being really predictable with your timing, both of which make grabbing you really easy. Anyway, learn to not just pillar their shield, try spacing attacks on the shield so that you can't get grabbed.
2) listen to soap, moonwalk stick movement is inefficient when you can just flick back and practice practice practice.
3) he doesn't go too low, you're just not being fast enough, again, practice practice practice.
it also seems like you could gain a lot from reading the first post in this thread, I'd recommend reading up on that.