Q&A Falco Q&A

[DippnDots]

falco is my new main >_> not that my ganon will be slacking or anything. So i'm giving you a call next weekend BigR, now play nicely on the forums

 

[The Irish Mafia]

This really helped. Thx mogwai

 

[Mogwai]

falco is my new main >_> not that my ganon will be slacking or anything. So i'm giving you a call next weekend BigR, now play nicely on the forums

I saw you posted on my fake little combo vid, and just so you know, it was basically just an exercise in me learning to edit stuff. I wanted to make something ~ 5 minutes long to match the song and I only had ~ an hour worth of footage to use, so it's a lot of fluff, lol. (Even though a couple of the Falcon combos would make the cut for IKM2, **** I'm sexy)

This really helped. Thx mogwai

np

 

[The Irish Mafia]

One thing I'd like to mention about lazer spacing and approach:
Lazers are how falco approaches. If he doesn't lazer when he approaches, he's a sitting duck, due mostly to slow running speed and otherwise predictable aerials, which will be punished into next week by a marth. Do not want. The technique I've found most effective against an oponent who's camping is get within 1 shl distance, and do shl to dsmash. Dsmash comes out nearly instantly, and the hitlag from the lazer makes it nearly inavoidable. I'm planning on making that my combo. The great part about this tech is the dsmashes low trajectory puts your oponent in range so you can approach while they tech/get up/ prepare themselves. Hell, you could do it twice! I did it 4 times in a row once.

Then again, this is a scrub talking.

(a scrub with badass lazer game)

 

[pockyD]

falco's running speed!

 

[AvengerAngel]

Your guides are awesome, dude :O
Are you planning to explain pillaring as well? Everytime I approach someone who's shielding (especially Marths and Sheiks) I get shield grabbed >_>

 

[DippnDots]

I saw you posted on my fake little combo vid, and just so you know, it was basically just an exercise in me learning to edit stuff. I wanted to make something ~ 5 minutes long to match the song and I only had ~ an hour worth of footage to use, so it's a lot of fluff, lol. (Even though a couple of the Falcon combos would make the cut for IKM2, **** I'm sexy)

yeah i noticed you made a note about practicing before you "brought out the big guns" so I thought i'd give ya a couple pennies for when the real thing got underway. That comment came more from crappy combo videos i've seen in the past than what you uploaded. Btw, i'm having troubles with starcraft, like, lag every 15 seconds or so. Been researching up though hehe.

Smash related.. what's the best way to get onto the stage against marth assuming you've already grabbed the ledge and he's waiting at the far end of a platform (near the center of the stage)

Edit:

Your guides are awesome, dude :O
Are you planning to explain pillaring as well? Everytime I approach someone who's shielding (especially Marths and Sheiks) I get shield grabbed >_>

Don't hit the top of their shield with your dair.


Second Edit: How the **** do you instant walljump from the ledge?

 

[MarkLoo]

One thing I'd like to mention about lazer spacing and approach:
Lazers are how falco approaches. If he doesn't lazer when he approaches, he's a sitting duck, due mostly to slow running speed and otherwise predictable aerials, which will be punished into next week by a marth. Do not want. The technique I've found most effective against an oponent who's camping is get within 1 shl distance, and do shl to dsmash. Dsmash comes out nearly instantly, and the hitlag from the lazer makes it nearly inavoidable. I'm planning on making that my combo. The great part about this tech is the dsmashes low trajectory puts your oponent in range so you can approach while they tech/get up/ prepare themselves. Hell, you could do it twice! I did it 4 times in a row once.

Then again, this is a scrub talking.

(a scrub with badass lazer game)

assuming they get hit by the lasers.
and the dsmash should be too laggy for you to follow up unless they're extremely slow.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its not that laggy, i mean there are alot better options but as a kill move that or fsmash isnt that bad once in a while

 

[The Irish Mafia]

assuming they get hit by the lasers.
and the dsmash should be too laggy for you to follow up unless they're extremely slow.

startup lag for the dsmash is like nil. You can follow it up if you keep on lazering. This is battle tested.
Edit: If they're not getting hit by the lazers, you should try harder to hit them.

 

[DippnDots]

I wouldn't do lazer -> downsmash unless it's gonna kill them, otherwise you could grab or shine after the lazer to start a longer combo with more damage, lazer -> downsmash -> lazer -> downsmash gives them more room to escape.

 

[MarkLoo]

yea i meant the ending lag, not the startup. Unless we're assuming the opponent's just going to stand there and wait for you to start lasering again after your dsmash, they should be able to avoid any follow up. Anyway, like dippndots said, unless they're in killing percents, it's better to grab/shine.

If in fact they are in the killing percents, and happen to NOT shield the laser, dsmash works fine.

 

[DippnDots]

so, anyone know how to instant wall jump when you're holding onto the ledge?

 

[Chum]

so, anyone know how to instant wall jump when you're holding onto the ledge?

Fall with the C-stick and di towards the stage then wall jump. Thats at least how i do it.

 

[Mogwai]

so, anyone know how to instant wall jump when you're holding onto the ledge?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=57759

Fall with the C-stick and di towards the stage then wall jump. Thats at least how i do it.

that's "scar jumping"

 

[Chum]

My bad I miss read it.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Don't hit the top of their shield with your dair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNwI5eK-B0 @ 1.16 - Isn't Shiz hitting the top of the shield with the Dair? x(
I think I don't get the timing/spacing right, cause if I try not to hit the top of the shield with the Dair I end up hitting the side of their shield and being too far away to reach them with a shine, so that they can easily shield grab me ;_;

 

[Mogwai]

he's fast falling ASAP, which is one of the hardest aspects of pillaring. The Fox is silly for not just buffering a roll away or at least DIing the fsmash after his shield broke. I don't remember the frame data on pillaring and whether it's actually impossible to be grabbed out of it if you're doing it perfectly, but in practice, most people try to grab after the dair, not the shine, which is why most people (myself included) recommend waiting on the dair to minimize the gap between dair and shine and not the other way around.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Huh, so it's Dair > shine > (optional JC shine) > Short hop, wait just a moment and then Dair > fastfall > shine immediatly? :O

 

[soap]

ya i hit the top of the shield but i do it at the top of the shorthop so i can fastfall at the same time. Hit both sticks down at the same time.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Ok, I'll try it next time I'll be playing vs. human players, thanks guys x)

 

[Kinglit]

does any one know how many frames it takes for falco to grab (specifically shield grab) ?

and is it like 9 frames of lag if u successfully l-cancel falco's dair?

if anyone knows the answer it would be helpful thnx

 

[Eggm]

The best time to fast fall is when your ariel starts adding the stun and its best to do the ariel as late as possible unless you are expecting them to expect that and hit you as you jump towards them doing nothing for awhile. Another way to put it is fast fall when it "connects." I also prefer to approach a shield with nair as it has less l-cancel lag less chance of being shield grabbed between the ariel and the shine which is what most people aim for. Although m2k/magus usually wait for the 1st shine then grab immediately after and usually get me even if I was doubleshining its gay.

 

[Stratocaster]

does any one know how many frames it takes for falco to grab (specifically shield grab) ?

and is it like 9 frames of lag if u successfully l-cancel falco's dair?

if anyone knows the answer it would be helpful thnx

Falco's grab comes out on frame 7, with 23 frames of lag, (30 frames total)
there is no difference whether you were shielding and press A or if you press Z

and yes falco's dair landing lag is 9 frames, 18 if not l-canceled

your welcome.

 

[AvengerAngel]

Although m2k/magus usually wait for the 1st shine then grab immediately after and usually get me even if I was doubleshining its gay.

O-m-g, I thought doubleshines were impossible to shield grab. It sucks x(

 

[Oskurito]

O-m-g, I thought doubleshines were impossible to shield grab. It sucks x(

lol yeah, thats what happens when you start playing really good people

 

[Doggalina]

Mogwai, I forgot your counterpicking advice and it got me *****.

I was playing a best of 5 set with our resident Marth main (I main Fox). The first match we go to Dreamland. I 3 stock him handily. 2nd match he takes me to FD. He 1 stocks me there. Smart CP from him. The third match, I decide to go to Corneria, a traditionally good Fox stage. I get *****, both in game and out. At one point, he had 4 stock and I had 2. Granted, he only 2 stocked me in the end, but the mental toll was huge. I took him to Pokemon Stadium and barely lost. It's one of my favorite stages, but the previous match had shaken me up so much that I was completely off my game.

Afterwards, I realized that going to Corneria was a really dumb idea. I had ***** him on Dreamland by using platforms well. I completely outmaneuvered him there and was able to play my game. On FD and Corneria, I didn't have any platforms. Even Stadium wasn't an amazing choice because it's more like FD than Dreamland.

I'm never making that mistake again.

 

[Mogwai]

The best time to fast fall is when your ariel starts adding the stun and its best to do the ariel as late as possible unless you are expecting them to expect that and hit you as you jump towards them doing nothing for awhile. Another way to put it is fast fall when it "connects." I also prefer to approach a shield with nair as it has less l-cancel lag less chance of being shield grabbed between the ariel and the shine which is what most people aim for. Although m2k/magus usually wait for the 1st shine then grab immediately after and usually get me even if I was doubleshining its gay.

M2K and Magus are too good. Have you tried shine grabbing them? It's been a long time since I've played Jason or James, so I dunno if they just get your out of that too .

For Nair vs. Dair on shield in the initial approach, I think they're functionally pretty much the same, (dair generates more shield stun, nair has less landing lag), but for some reason, I find it a lot easier to not miss the l-cancel on the nair, so yea, I guess for the first aerial, I usually do a low nair too.

Mogwai, I forgot your counterpicking advice and it got me *****.

I was playing a best of 5 set with our resident Marth main (I main Fox). The first match we go to Dreamland. I 3 stock him handily. 2nd match he takes me to FD. He 1 stocks me there. Smart CP from him. The third match, I decide to go to Corneria, a traditionally good Fox stage. I get *****, both in game and out. At one point, he had 4 stock and I had 2. Granted, he only 2 stocked me in the end, but the mental toll was huge. I took him to Pokemon Stadium and barely lost. It's one of my favorite stages, but the previous match had shaken me up so much that I was completely off my game.

Afterwards, I realized that going to Corneria was a really dumb idea. I had ***** him on Dreamland by using platforms well. I completely outmaneuvered him there and was able to play my game. On FD and Corneria, I didn't have any platforms. Even Stadium wasn't an amazing choice because it's more like FD than Dreamland.

I'm never making that mistake again.

yea, take him to DK64 or a moving stage. DK64 is awesome, I really recommend learning it, it's more easy to play correctly than Cruise or Floats since it resembles most standard stages.

So I'm actually learning to play Falco pretty well in teams recently, so I might do a lesson on teams Falco soon. I hope Sensei and I vs. Scar and Pakman goes up, that match was insane.

 

[Pakman]

So I'm actually learning to play Falco pretty well in teams recently, so I might do a lesson on teams Falco soon. I hope Sensei and I vs. Scar and Pakman goes up, that match was insane.

I think DJN or Scar overwrote/didn't save those matches, which I am really pissed aboot because I wanted the ledge tech fair I had on sensei.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Mog your sig is win.

all right i have a legit question.

How do you ledge tech Marth's counter

i can get everything else but that.

 

[JonaDiaper]

i have a few serious questions, i decided today im dropping falcon for falco, mostly because i do better with him. anyways, i just wanted to know anyones take on falco's jab, f and dtilt. im going to be uploading some videos of my falco, i use these moves quite a bit and i just wanted to know what you think about them.

edit: another thing, when do you use the dash attack, i was watching some chops and i saw him do it a few times, i just changed from falcon and i never used his dash attack so im not sure when to use it

 

[Mogwai]

jab is great in situations where you would shine but are too far away to connect with the shine.

dtilt is too laggy to use a lot. it is still very good, but you need to know you are going to hit with it. I use it most frequenty after crouch canceling or after someone crouch cancels my dair at a low percent and gets that weird animation where they pull back in stun.

ftilt is awesome, I use it a lot to manage semi close quarters spacing.

dash attack is a great combo move when you know it's going to hit. it pops people up nicely for follow up, but is too laggy in cases when they could shield or dodge.

Take metro north a couple stops up to Stamford and play me.

 

[IrArby]

Is it just me, or does Fox have alot more range on dtilt but his obviously won't CC KO sort of like DSW does at Fast1 vs. M2K? IDK maybe I should ask this on the Fox Boards.

Also, I think dashattack is a good techchase tool but obviously SHL will often be better if you know what I mean.

I've actually got another question too. I recently remember Fluxwolf talking about Shining out of shield really easily by pulling the Cstick up and sliding your thumb up the rest of the way to hit "B" (while holding the control stick down ofcourse). Once you get the timing, its really easy to execute.

I thought it'd be a great way to avoid excessive shield pressure (no chance to test it on people yet) but I'm worried that Falco's shine might not be large enough to hit with shield pressure from most characters with decent range. You've still got the option to JC grab the shine afterwards, but once again, I haven't got a chance to try this on people.

Does anyone have experience with this? Its not a bad thing to know how to do I'm just wondering how useful this might be.

 

[Scar]

I think DJN or Scar overwrote/didn't save those matches, which I am really pissed aboot because I wanted the ledge tech fair I had on sensei.

i have never overwritten any vids ever

 

[Mogwai]

Is it just me, or does Fox have alot more range on dtilt but his obviously won't CC KO sort of like DSW does at Fast1 vs. M2K? IDK maybe I should ask this on the Fox Boards.

Also, I think dashattack is a good techchase tool but obviously SHL will often be better if you know what I mean.

I've actually got another question too. I recently remember Fluxwolf talking about Shining out of shield really easily by pulling the Cstick up and sliding your thumb up the rest of the way to hit "B" (while holding the control stick down ofcourse). Once you get the timing, its really easy to execute.

I thought it'd be a great way to avoid excessive shield pressure (no chance to test it on people yet) but I'm worried that Falco's shine might not be large enough to hit with shield pressure from most characters with decent range. You've still got the option to JC grab the shine afterwards, but once again, I haven't got a chance to try this on people.

Does anyone have experience with this? Its not a bad thing to know how to do I'm just wondering how useful this might be.

please refrain from asking generic differences between Fox vs. Falco, they're boring and have been covered one hundred million times. Yes, Fox's dtilt has longer range and significantly less knockback and hit stun.

dash attack and SHL are in no way interchangeable, they are used in completely different situations. I use dash attack to combo after nairs or tech chase or challenge weak priority shffls. It's usually better than a SHL when you're using it correctly, but SHL has a much much wider range of application as it is a projectile and not a narrow combo move.

shining out of shield is awesome if you can do it. I find even the buffer JC shine out of shield really hard to do in practice, but if you can get good at it, it's obviously insanely useful vs. Spacies (turn their shield pressure into your combo). As to JC grabbing out of said shine, that doesn't make any sense, you might as well shield grab in any situation where that's at all applicable.

 

[IrArby]

please refrain from asking generic differences between Fox vs. Falco, they're boring and have been covered one hundred million times. Yes, Fox's dtilt has longer range and significantly less knockback and hit stun.

dash attack and SHL are in no way interchangeable, they are used in completely different situations. I use dash attack to combo after nairs or tech chase or challenge weak priority shffls. It's usually better than a SHL when you're using it correctly, but SHL has a much much wider range of application as it is a projectile and not a narrow combo move.

shining out of shield is awesome if you can do it. I find even the buffer JC shine out of shield really hard to do in practice, but if you can get good at it, it's obviously insanely useful vs. Spacies (turn their shield pressure into your combo). As to JC grabbing out of said shine, that doesn't make any sense, you might as well shield grab in any situation where that's at all applicable.

Firstly, sorry I didn't know I'll search all the pages next time. I was really just interested in the range but again sorry.

I understand they're not interchangeable ( I don't think I said they were but . . . ) merely saying the Falco's mobility comes much more from SHLing around than from running so Dashattack isn't as good of a tech chase or at least its more difficult to land/situational generally speaking. Basically what you said. I was merely pointing it out as a techchase option as I don't think you mentioned that initially.

My point was that Shining out of shield becomes really easy if you do it the way I described. The only hard part is the timing. It doesn't require great speed or precision. Usually, if I did it wrong, I did it too fast in fact, so its not hard that way at all.

Also, JCing a shine to grab is a great way to shine anyone looking to shieldgrab you. Then, if they shield your dair to shine, you just grab them. Shiz does it alot and if you're spaced closely its a really good tactic that'll beat out someone's shieldgrab and allow you to combo them from a shine or grab them directly. The frame gap between pillaring after a shine (shine, jump, aerial) is much greater than a Shine to JC grab if I'm not mistaken. Good Shield DI can put a stop to it however.

Anyway, I'm asking more for other characters as obviously Fox has to be close to you since his range is almost the same. Maybe someone like Falcon you know? Greater jab range I guess. I think shield to shine will be largely useless against a properly spaced Marth/Shiek which is my major concern since their grabs out range Falco's shine badly. Make sense?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

mog i thinka teams falco lesson should be your next one :D

 

[Falcinho]

I use the c-stick buffer shine oos and i personally find it a lot easier to do this way.
When i played more and wasn't rusty i could even do a shinebair out of shield (intentionally leaving the ground for a bit)

@teams: On small stages like YS i like to d/fsmash a lot (when they roll for example) lol

 

[JonaDiaper]

jab is great in situations where you would shine but are too far away to connect with the shine.

dtilt is too laggy to use a lot. it is still very good, but you need to know you are going to hit with it. I use it most frequenty after crouch canceling or after someone crouch cancels my dair at a low percent and gets that weird animation where they pull back in stun.

ftilt is awesome, I use it a lot to manage semi close quarters spacing.

dash attack is a great combo move when you know it's going to hit. it pops people up nicely for follow up, but is too laggy in cases when they could shield or dodge.

Take metro north a couple stops up to Stamford and play me.

i got a car, i could go down there for a bit sometime this week. whens good for you?

 

[Pakman]

mog i thinka teams falco lesson should be your next one :D

I would be very interested to read this if such a thing were posted.