Mew2King
King of the Mews
teams falco - Dair Scars
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Q&A Falco Q&A
- Thread starter Mogwai
- Start date
lol, if only every team had a Scar on it to gimp
IrArby
Smash Ace
Falcinho: Any further thoughts on the effectiveness of Shine OOS vs. non Spacies?
OOS ShineBair sounds sexy as hell I'm going to try it right now actually.
OOS ShineBair sounds sexy as hell I'm going to try it right now actually.
depends on what non-spacies. honestly, it's pretty useful character independent, it's just spacing dependent. any time someone misspaces an attack on your shield and ends up in shine range, you should shine oos if you can.
MarkLoo
Smash Ace
His point was that it'd be stupid to jc grab out of shine out of shield, since you could just shield grab, not that it was dumb to jc grab out of shine in general.
IrArby
Smash Ace
Yea that makes sense I was just interested if people were doing this often or finding many of those situations. I'll keep it in mind.
But Shining out of shield makes you momentarily invincible and will hit with the shine if they shield grab or don't already have it up. Shining will obviously lead to more combos from Falco than a grab will. Grab is a good option to fall back on too.
We're not talking independently about Shine out of Shield or Shine to Jump Cancel Grab, we're talking about shining out of shield into a jump cancel grab. At least, that's what I'm talking about, and that's what I thought you were talking about,
Sooo, if you are shining out of shield, it's because they attacked your shield.
Shine -> JC Grab is used after you shine someone's shield to grab them before they try to do anything out of shield before you can follow up your shine.
My point is: Why would they be shielding at all after attacking your shield? If someone likes to attack your shield and then just shields, please just shieldgrab them, it's not hard.
I'm saying that they're both good techs, but don't make any sense to put together as it sounded like your were suggesting.
Work on making your posts more readable, it's taking me several read throughs to extract meaning from them.
Sooo, if you are shining out of shield, it's because they attacked your shield.
Shine -> JC Grab is used after you shine someone's shield to grab them before they try to do anything out of shield before you can follow up your shine.
My point is: Why would they be shielding at all after attacking your shield? If someone likes to attack your shield and then just shields, please just shieldgrab them, it's not hard
.I'm saying that they're both good techs, but don't make any sense to put together as it sounded like your were suggesting.
Work on making your posts more readable, it's taking me several read throughs to extract meaning from them.
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
Quick question. I just started playing falco and have most of the technical skill down. However, I was wondering about the fox matchup. I can do shine -> jump -> shine -> jump -> dair consistently, but I'm pretty sure this only works at like 0%. Would it just be better to hit them with a shine, then wavedash to another shine and continue the combo?
that's old school Bombsoldier stuff and is much more difficult to do against good DI and is no better than more conventional combos. I usually do shine -> WD -> shine -> dair to start from 0 on fox, but you can also just shine -> WD -> dair if you want, it's just more difficult to place your dair and time it before they hit the ground @ 0%.
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
Do you think shine oos is imperative to learn with Falco? With fox i used to use the c-stick up to jump and then shine, but Falco's jump animation is really screwy...
hit b 2 frames later.
it's really helpful. maybe not imperative, but it's an important tool for high level play vs. other spacies.
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
B 2 frames after I press up on the c-stick?
no 2 frames later than you would with Fox.
there's some useful thread in Falco section on JC shining...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214549
IrArby
Smash Ace
What I was orinially saying is you can still JC Grab if for whatever reason. Obviously, you have lots of options after you shine I just listed that one off the top of my head for some reason. JC grab as you said, wouldn't neccesarily make sense.
soap
Smash Hero
that actually makes sense in theory.
for instance, they hit your shield but you dont have enough of a frame advantage to shieldgrab, but u have enough to shine them before they can do another move on your shield.
They anticipate your shine and shield, afterwhich u grab them
frame perfect shine out of sheild is 6 frames.
shield grabbing is 7 frames -_-.
so we're talking about someone hitting your shield and giving you a 6 frame advantage and anticipating perfect shine out of shield and putting up their shield on that exact frame..?
I'm pretty sure that the way that goes is that they have powershielded by definition, leaving them at a big enough frame advantage to shield grab you -_-. You know, despite the timing being completely absurd.
Binx
Smash Master
LOL, good point.
Yeah shine oos *****.
I once developed a strategy against sheik's spaced tilts that should work like this:
1.) Shield gay sheik moves when you can't dodge them otherwise (usually aerials)
2.) Wait for the spaced ftilt and shield-SDI it
3.) Shine oos to combo
4.) ???
5.) profit
However, our sheikmain retired so i could never really practice to shield-SDI those tilts consistently =/
I once developed a strategy against sheik's spaced tilts that should work like this:
1.) Shield gay sheik moves when you can't dodge them otherwise (usually aerials)
2.) Wait for the spaced ftilt and shield-SDI it
3.) Shine oos to combo
4.) ???
5.) profit
However, our sheikmain retired so i could never really practice to shield-SDI those tilts consistently =/
lmao, Falco players have such 1-track minds XD. You could just time a grab in that situation, it's not like Sheik's moves are so broken that you can't shield grab. shield-SDI is silly.
IrArby
Smash Ace
Shield SDI saves you from getting Shine JC Grab against both spacies though.
Could be, i didn't play a good Sheik for some time, but are you sure that can grab a spaced ftilt?
Sure the hitbox moves forward with her leg, but i don't think it stays out very long
And i don't want to miss a shieldgrab against sheik =/
Plus a shine usually means a combo while a grab . . is a grab
It can lead to sth but not necessarily
right, but the point is that Shield SDIing is like, stupidly hard and impractical and won't close more distance than the difference between shield grabbing range and shine rage. I mean, you could just sh nair out of shield too, there are plenty of options that don't require redonkulously difficult tech to do.
D20
Smash Lord
Shield SDI? WTF?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYlXIjMfWbE
@ about 1:30, the peach vs. lasers thing. You move your character in shield while in shield stun, like regular smash di moves your character while in hit stun.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
falco lazer gifs be on point
i'd like to hear opinions and stuff bout DD with falco. its obviously harder to be effective with it, as much as lets say .......fox. I think its worth learning(control timing, making it work well for you etc)
discuss tiem?
i'd like to hear opinions and stuff bout DD with falco. its obviously harder to be effective with it, as much as lets say .......fox. I think its worth learning(control timing, making it work well for you etc)
discuss tiem?
Ofc it's mad hard, but i think it would be pretty useful if you can master it.
I thought about other options like grabbing, doing aerials or WDs out of shield but i don't feel like they are very safe =/
(Especially when you're at >50% and/or Sheik has like none)
I agree tho, my idea isn't very practicable
Just wanted to share it
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Isn't that clip in Perfect Control a Peach Powershielding, then floating to cancel the shield drop lag and powershielding again? That's why it's peach, no one else can powershield fast enough to powershield every one of Fox' lasers. No shield DI involved.
oh, my bad then, I don't actually know how half the things in Perfect Control work.
I think there are examples of Shiz doing some crazy shield SDI thing against Sheik's needles. We need some help on this one. And by help I mean videos.
SUMMON Cactuar.
SUMMON Magus.
SUMMON Cactuar.
SUMMON Magus.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
magus is so awesome, he knows more then m2k
xyt
Smash Lord
i wish someone made a sheik thread like this = /
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Like I said, I'm not sure, I just recall something like this being brought up in a discussion of frame perfect tiers. I know SDM posted explanations to Perfect Control 2, but I don't think he ever did anything like that for Perfect Control 1.
I'll contribute to the summons:
Magus magus420 magus 420 ohmygodsmart
cactuar cactus awesome ohmygodcool
you forgot hardgay
Haha. You guys are silly.
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
WD out of Shield is useful for everyone. JC Shine from shield, or Power Shield Shine are some of Falco's better answers to close combat situations.Ofc it's mad hard, but i think it would be pretty useful if you can master it.
I thought about other options like grabbing, doing aerials or WDs out of shield but i don't feel like they are very safe =/
(Especially when you're at >50% and/or Sheik has like none)
I agree tho, my idea isn't very practicable
Just wanted to share it
IT WORKED!
Yeah but how do you wanna counter a spaced attack with a JC shine out of shield?
And i don't think you can WD in and attack Sheik before she can do sth.
You could WD back tho
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
If Sheik f-tilts your shield, I know Fox can WD out and grab her before she can act again. Now, Falco has a jump that's two frames slower if I recall correctly, but you might be able to shine her before she can act. In which case, you just earned yourself a combo.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
^^are you sure about that? even if the sheik buffers a spot-dodge? (to avoid fox's grab)
edit: another question. When you follow DI in combos with waveshines (say you're comboing a fox), do you react or guess/predict?
edit: another question. When you follow DI in combos with waveshines (say you're comboing a fox), do you react or guess/predict?
I just noticed this.
Dash dancing is good with Falco as long as you do it with a different mindset than you do with Fox/Marth/CF, you know, characters with good dash dances. Like, with those characters, you can DD camp and use it as a way to bait your opponent into attacking and then get a free grab. With Falco, I just use it as timing mix up on the approach and to avoid a telegraphed attack that's relying on perfect spacing. Also, since Falco can't cover as much ground in the dash dance, I usually shffl out of it rather than going for a shine/grab as I would with Fox/Marth/CF.
You just wavedash towards them. If you shine them when they're in front of you, wave dash forward. If you shine them when they're behind you, wave dash backwards. If they DI the other way, they'll usually pop straight up which gives you enough time to react and get back to them.
In other news, I was playing PC Chris yesterday and I have decided that double shining is really really fcuking important vs. players who are ridiculous playing out of their shields. The only games where I was even close against his spacies were the ones where I double shined his shield a lot and caught him trying to do stuff OOS against me.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
Q . F . T .