RestInPeace
Smash Ace
In Melee, there is no way to instantly learn a new tech skill. Just practice.
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Q&A Falco Q&A
- Thread starter Mogwai
- Start date
D20
Smash Lord
Mogwai... I <3 you. This is some really good stuff.
I started playing falco after this 
IDJDLs are sooooooo good
Amazing guide Mogwai <3
IDJDLs are sooooooo good
Amazing guide Mogwai <3
Skrah
Smash Ace
Yeah im picking up falco to make up for my link xD.
p.s. waveshining is a ***** at first :/
p.s. waveshining is a ***** at first :/
Too tired to format this lesson or make it good
Lesson 3: Approaching With Falco
Part 1: My Goals:
Learning to approach correctly is something that one learns mostly from experience. There is so much feel to it that trying to explain all the ins and outs of what’s going through one’s head when they decide to close the distance as Falco is hopeless. What I’m hoping to do with this lesson is set you on the right track about how to think about your approach and learn to solve your own problems with approaching as they come up. For this lesson I’m going to try a different approach (har har, I made a funny) than with my laser lessons, and start with the higher level theory and work down.
Part 2: Musings on Approach
Section 1: Risk vs. Reward:
So let’s start by discussing general risk vs. reward theory with regards to making decisions. In straight math terms, if risk and reward can be measured quantitatively, a decision is worth making if the value of success times the probability of success is greater than the value lost by failure times the probability of failure. Now I’m sure many of you are just reading gibberish in that last sentence, so let me give you an example of what I’m trying to get at with regards to Falco’s approach game.
Let’s say you think that you can combo Samus from 0-35% on a successful approach, but if you fail she will screw attack you out of shield for ~ 5% (cause you’re good and will probably crouch cancel). In this case, mathematically speaking, you only need 1/6 chance of success for this approach to be worth it (35% x 1/6 > 5% x 5/6). In other words, approaching a shielding Samus is a low risk, high reward situation, meaning that, in the long run, you’ll end up ahead even with fairly poor chances of success.
If however, we replace Samus with Marth and consider the risk being getting grabbed and comboed from 0-60% (since it’s likely between 30% and death), the situation suddenly becomes high risk, low reward, so you damn well better have a good chance of hitting to risk getting grabbed.
Of course, this is all oversimplifying what %s mean and how momentum can affect the way you play a game, but it’s certainly worth thinking about when considering whether approaching is worth it or not. Just think about what you’re risking and what happens if you succeed before approaching and you’ll get a lot smarter about deciding when to attack and when to lay off.
Section 2: Information is Valuable:
Seriously, taking note to how your opponent reacts to your forms of pressure is what separates decent Falcos from good Falcos. Many Falcos have very predictable approach games and very predictable follow ups to all of them. As such, most players’ anti-Falco strategies are very predictable as well. When facing the same approach twice, most players will react exactly the same and as such, you should keep mental notes on what they do and react appropriately. That Falcon keeps short hopping over your shine and stomping you? Then start going dair -> dair, rather than dair -> shine. That Sheik keeps full hop nairing your pillar? Then start full hop dairing after the shine. Don’t underestimate the value of knowing what your opponent does when faced with a given situation. If you can learn to keep track of this and adapt, you can learn to turn your opponent’s knee-jerk reaction into a win on every approach.
Section 3: Shffling is NOT the Only Way!
Don’t sell yourself short by always shffling an aerial into your opponent or their shield. There are many other options and the more you learn to use them and stop relying on shffls for everything, the more effective your approach game will become. Some things that aren’t shffling that I like to do to create offense:
empty short hop -> waveland -> grab/shine->grab
short hop -> double jump -> waveland on platform -> drop -> fast fall dair
when they are just sitting in shield: run up -> wavedash -> walk -> shine -> grab
run up -> wavedash -> DD -> shffl
shl -> shine/grab
There are obviously many more ways to do things, but the point is that there are a lot of mix ups that you can put into your approach game which should throw your opponent off. Changing tempo will frequently leave your opponent flustered, confused, or caught in their shield which makes your eventual approach much more likely to succeed.
Part 3: Questions About Approaching
Should I be Using Dair or Nair to Approach?
This is probably the most frequently asked question on Falco boards that can’t just be answered by giving a definition (“How do I pillar?” “How do I multishine?” and “How I mine for Fish?” all seem to come up more frequently…). The simple answer I always give to people is that if you’re worried about actually being able to hit them, use nair, otherwise, use dair. Basically, nair = lower risk, dair = higher reward. This isn’t always the case, but it’s the foundation of the nair vs. dair dilemma.
Against dash dancing opponents who I fear will powershield my laser, I will nair for the extra range. Against crouch canceling opponents I will dair for the hitstun and then follow up with dtilt. Against shields, dair is better unless you’re trying to space vs. a good option out of shield (DK/Samus/Bowser up Bs, for example). Essentially, be smart about it. Use the information you’ve gathered in the match about how your opponent will react and make an educated decision about whether to nair or dair.
If you have questions, please ask them and I will add them to the lesson if I deem them worthwhile. Sorry for the shortness and fragmentation of this lesson, I just sorta rambled about stuff and found that I didn’t have as much to say as I thought I did, lol. I hope it’s helpful.
Lesson 3: Approaching With Falco
Part 1: My Goals:
Learning to approach correctly is something that one learns mostly from experience. There is so much feel to it that trying to explain all the ins and outs of what’s going through one’s head when they decide to close the distance as Falco is hopeless. What I’m hoping to do with this lesson is set you on the right track about how to think about your approach and learn to solve your own problems with approaching as they come up. For this lesson I’m going to try a different approach (har har, I made a funny) than with my laser lessons, and start with the higher level theory and work down.
Part 2: Musings on Approach
Section 1: Risk vs. Reward:
So let’s start by discussing general risk vs. reward theory with regards to making decisions. In straight math terms, if risk and reward can be measured quantitatively, a decision is worth making if the value of success times the probability of success is greater than the value lost by failure times the probability of failure. Now I’m sure many of you are just reading gibberish in that last sentence, so let me give you an example of what I’m trying to get at with regards to Falco’s approach game.
Let’s say you think that you can combo Samus from 0-35% on a successful approach, but if you fail she will screw attack you out of shield for ~ 5% (cause you’re good and will probably crouch cancel). In this case, mathematically speaking, you only need 1/6 chance of success for this approach to be worth it (35% x 1/6 > 5% x 5/6). In other words, approaching a shielding Samus is a low risk, high reward situation, meaning that, in the long run, you’ll end up ahead even with fairly poor chances of success.
If however, we replace Samus with Marth and consider the risk being getting grabbed and comboed from 0-60% (since it’s likely between 30% and death), the situation suddenly becomes high risk, low reward, so you damn well better have a good chance of hitting to risk getting grabbed.
Of course, this is all oversimplifying what %s mean and how momentum can affect the way you play a game, but it’s certainly worth thinking about when considering whether approaching is worth it or not. Just think about what you’re risking and what happens if you succeed before approaching and you’ll get a lot smarter about deciding when to attack and when to lay off.
Section 2: Information is Valuable:
Seriously, taking note to how your opponent reacts to your forms of pressure is what separates decent Falcos from good Falcos. Many Falcos have very predictable approach games and very predictable follow ups to all of them. As such, most players’ anti-Falco strategies are very predictable as well. When facing the same approach twice, most players will react exactly the same and as such, you should keep mental notes on what they do and react appropriately. That Falcon keeps short hopping over your shine and stomping you? Then start going dair -> dair, rather than dair -> shine. That Sheik keeps full hop nairing your pillar? Then start full hop dairing after the shine. Don’t underestimate the value of knowing what your opponent does when faced with a given situation. If you can learn to keep track of this and adapt, you can learn to turn your opponent’s knee-jerk reaction into a win on every approach.
Section 3: Shffling is NOT the Only Way!
Don’t sell yourself short by always shffling an aerial into your opponent or their shield. There are many other options and the more you learn to use them and stop relying on shffls for everything, the more effective your approach game will become. Some things that aren’t shffling that I like to do to create offense:
empty short hop -> waveland -> grab/shine->grab
short hop -> double jump -> waveland on platform -> drop -> fast fall dair
when they are just sitting in shield: run up -> wavedash -> walk -> shine -> grab
run up -> wavedash -> DD -> shffl
shl -> shine/grab
There are obviously many more ways to do things, but the point is that there are a lot of mix ups that you can put into your approach game which should throw your opponent off. Changing tempo will frequently leave your opponent flustered, confused, or caught in their shield which makes your eventual approach much more likely to succeed.
Part 3: Questions About Approaching
Should I be Using Dair or Nair to Approach?
This is probably the most frequently asked question on Falco boards that can’t just be answered by giving a definition (“How do I pillar?” “How do I multishine?” and “How I mine for Fish?” all seem to come up more frequently…). The simple answer I always give to people is that if you’re worried about actually being able to hit them, use nair, otherwise, use dair. Basically, nair = lower risk, dair = higher reward. This isn’t always the case, but it’s the foundation of the nair vs. dair dilemma.
Against dash dancing opponents who I fear will powershield my laser, I will nair for the extra range. Against crouch canceling opponents I will dair for the hitstun and then follow up with dtilt. Against shields, dair is better unless you’re trying to space vs. a good option out of shield (DK/Samus/Bowser up Bs, for example). Essentially, be smart about it. Use the information you’ve gathered in the match about how your opponent will react and make an educated decision about whether to nair or dair.
If you have questions, please ask them and I will add them to the lesson if I deem them worthwhile. Sorry for the shortness and fragmentation of this lesson, I just sorta rambled about stuff and found that I didn’t have as much to say as I thought I did, lol. I hope it’s helpful.
yayy gonna read now!
its very helpful not just for falcos. the whoel risk vs reward and shffl'ing isnt ever the only option.
its very helpful not just for falcos. the whoel risk vs reward and shffl'ing isnt ever the only option.
MarkLoo
Smash Ace
that was good =)
shl to full hop dair punishes full jump nairs out of shield on fox
shl to full hop dair punishes full jump nairs out of shield on fox
Big_R
Smash Champion
dl64 is good vs peach just camp the top platform and she cant dj without u noticing it.
gg
lol
plus u have room to run and just kill with dairs dope style
gg
lol
plus u have room to run and just kill with dairs dope style
This is some good stuff.
My Falco's been getting lazier and lazier since Brawl came out.
My Falco's been getting lazier and lazier since Brawl came out.
thanks for the positive feedback people.
some of us like to have fun while playing melee, but w/e floats your boat.
I enjoy play vs. non-Vidjo Peaches *shrugs*
It's good target practice and combos on Peach are funny cause they never look like they should work.
Big_R
Smash Champion
oh u havent played vidjo...?
plus i dont rly do that it doesnt like make them die. id just l2p mute or brinstar....
i think ur getting me mixed up with some kinda super camper but if u play falco ur gonna camp a lil no mattter wut so get off ur high horse
plus i dont rly do that it doesnt like make them die. id just l2p mute or brinstar....
i think ur getting me mixed up with some kinda super camper but if u play falco ur gonna camp a lil no mattter wut so get off ur high horse
No, I played him at Smashtastrophe 2 pools and he ***** me. I'm saying that he was the only Peach I've played and felt hopeless against.
I'm neither on a high horse nor trying to cause beef, I just responded to what you posted, because in theory, you could camp platforms all game vs. Peach. I was just pointing out that it would be mad boring and mentally exhausting.
If you're going to post sarcastically, don't take things personally.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6430282&postcount=1
mogwai how do i make my guide as cool as yours plz critique
mogwai how do i make my guide as cool as yours plz critique
you use actual smash matches XD
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
As a noob getting into Melee a bit too late, this is epic win.
Good ****.
Good ****.
put animated gifs into it...
everyone's a sucker for animated gifs...
your guide is pretty awesome as is though.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
for some reason i'm reminded of the boondocks when they're discussing ***** technology and it's like
"I sent that ***** a smiley face. *****es love smiley faces."
or something like that
"I sent that ***** a smiley face. *****es love smiley faces."
or something like that
I texted that ***** a smiley face... B!tches love smiley faces!for some reason i'm reminded of the boondocks when they're discussing ***** technology and it's like
"*****es love smilies"
or something like that
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
<3 <3 <3
Wow I need to move to EC. So I can meet Mogwai.
And I have to then kidnap Dogysamich. So I can make him love me like I love him.
Wow I need to move to EC. So I can meet Mogwai.
And I have to then kidnap Dogysamich. So I can make him love me like I love him.
Big_R
Smash Champion
im just saying i beat vidjo on dl64 and im amazing so dont hate, appreciate.
yes friendlies mattter!
i beat doh there too that was actually tourny. aww ya and i won that set. i was proud of myself...
i got the peach matchup on lock im from the mw!
one man cant do it all...or so i thought, but i guess i will go to u if i have any questions all knowing falco master...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
you have vidjo training you filthy cheat
*high five*
they sure do
you should be, he's good. *high five*
i'm very happy for you
um, ok, w/e.
lolz ****...
Big_R
Smash Champion
well **** u and ur grammar ok square! im out there livin it! i dont have time to write guides and things like that. im experiencing the world man!
Lose? I don't lose! I win! I win! I'm a lawyer! That's my job, that's what I do!
Lose? I don't lose! I win! I win! I'm a lawyer! That's my job, that's what I do!
soap
Smash Hero
big R is now a cocaine cowboy
if u were wondering why he is so jumpy recently.
that info was sex, thank you, i knew down air was the shiz i dont know why i doubted it.
although my approach is still just look for an opening, dair>shine>grab, and when they wise up and sidestep my grab, i do dair> doubleshine>grab, and when they wise up to 2 and sidestep my grab i do dair>shine>grab cuz i cant do 3 and they r just sitting there waiting for me to do 2 anywayz
i get alot grabs now lol, tell me what to do with them. Lesson 4 should be following up your grabs the most efficiently for a bunch of characters
if u were wondering why he is so jumpy recently.
that info was sex, thank you, i knew down air was the shiz i dont know why i doubted it.
although my approach is still just look for an opening, dair>shine>grab, and when they wise up and sidestep my grab, i do dair> doubleshine>grab, and when they wise up to 2 and sidestep my grab i do dair>shine>grab cuz i cant do 3 and they r just sitting there waiting for me to do 2 anywayz
i get alot grabs now lol, tell me what to do with them. Lesson 4 should be following up your grabs the most efficiently for a bunch of characters
soap
Smash Hero
what u can roll away from the grab too?
nobody does that to me
nobody does that to me
Ryan-K
Smash Master
yeah lol the stun isn't enough to lock you in for a grab
Mixing up your throws is probably the best you can do.
uthrow can usually be followed up the best but if you oly do uthrows they'll DI them corrextly sooner or later.
You can do a lot of sexy things after throws, but only if you surprise your opponent.
uthrow can usually be followed up the best but if you oly do uthrows they'll DI them corrextly sooner or later.
You can do a lot of sexy things after throws, but only if you surprise your opponent.
soap
Smash Hero
lol u are right, i just realized i do that myself.
if u doubleshine will it catch their roll attempt? or will the buffer just not kick in till after the second shine?
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Falco's grabs are weird. But hey, a grab is a grab. Anyone know any grab combos? I think I remember Mogwai saying that you can get a free aerial if they DI the Uthrow. Anything else?
just uthrow --> aerial.
its really all that works.
LOL...onetime i dthrow regrab bthrow
that was sort of funny.
its really all that works.
LOL...onetime i dthrow regrab bthrow
that was sort of funny.
Big_R
Smash Champion
just any throw but up to mindgame soap
up is outta style for the winter
up is outta style for the winter
soap
Smash Hero
when we do dittoes u r throwing me in all these crazy directions i dont know what is going on.
come over one time and lets record stuff, then i can study up how to play my new main
Ryan-K
Smash Master
if they di bad you can do the rob$ on spacies, on the edge at low percents bthrow ftilt always works and if they jump early then they lose their jump, if they dont they grab the edge but at least they dont just land right next to you like usual
most people here DI the uthrow super gay so i usually fthrow and try to tech chase into something it kinda depends
what i do alot vs foxes is bthrow and depending on DI and percent, they usually can jump out because the bthrow has ****ty stun sometimes so you can read their jump with an aerial
most people here DI the uthrow super gay so i usually fthrow and try to tech chase into something it kinda depends
what i do alot vs foxes is bthrow and depending on DI and percent, they usually can jump out because the bthrow has ****ty stun sometimes so you can read their jump with an aerial
Big_R
Smash Champion
new main?!?when we do dittoes u r throwing me in all these crazy directions i dont know what is going on.
come over one time and lets record stuff, then i can study up how to play my new main
seriously?
u crazy bro is this like 4% when he said he was switching to marth at this last tourny then he went marth one game and got 4 stocked by X?
if i were u i wouldnt concentrate on being a cool flashy unique falco i would concentrate on maining some good ole cheap aka Fox