Evo 2013 Ruleset

[Fortune]

Not to take away from the work IC players put in to learn their infinites, but i'm not sure how good this would look for EVO.

No wobbling imo.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

May I suggest:

The tournament organizer has the right to save/record any tournament match if possible and has the right to upload said match.
i. The m2k Rule - By entering the tournament you agree to play your matches on the setup requested by a tournament organizer whether it be a stream, recording, or non-recording setup.

I'm not sure if EVO has anything in it's general rules regarding this, but I've found this useful in my events as a 'just in case' type of rule.

I think they have a video release agreement covering that already?

Good idea though

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Wobbling legal. The ICs are going to kill you dead if they grab you anyway.

Though I'm a nobody lurker from the middle of nowhere, so taking my opinion would be ill-advised.

 

[sephirothken]

Where can I find a tentative schedule for evo? Like when is smash being held Friday sat and Sunday?

 

[Ponder]

Where can I find a tentative schedule for evo? Like when is smash being held Friday sat and Sunday?

We won't know until we get an estimate of how many people are coming. Ask again in a few months.

 

[Revven]

Wobbling should be legal. Like I said on page one, #freeiceclimbers.

 

[smashmachine]

We won't know until we get an estimate of how many people are coming. Ask again in a few months.

yet another reason to get as many people to evo as possible
what were numbers for last year's games?

 

[TreK]

'Ice Climbers have an universal grab infinite due to the fact that there's two of them, and there's only one of you.'
If wobbling is allowed, it's going to be up to the commentators to make it as hype to external viewers as it is to us smashers. Make sure they're briefed properly.

That was just an advice, I'm not gonna discuss the rules of a game that's not mine. Lurking back to the brawl boards, see ya around :V

 

[Ponder]

yet another reason to get as many people to evo as possible
what were numbers for last year's games?

The biggest games had over 1000. MK was the smallest at about 160.

 

[smashmachine]

The biggest games had over 1000. MK was the smallest at about 160.

more specifically, what was the largest game after SSF4:AE and UMvC3 (those were the only two that broke 1000 right)

 

[SmokeMaxX]

more specifically, what was the largest game after SSF4:AE and UMvC3 (those were the only two that broke 1000 right)

I believe SFxT was rumored to have ~450 teams or so which would make player count at just under 1000.

 

[luzbwl]

I think KoF had about a thousand, all the others except for AE and marvel were in the hundreds

 

[Revven]

KoF was kinda inflated though because people wanted the free t-shirt lol.

 

[FoosJr]

My main question is, WILL THERE BE TEAMS!?

 

[Fortune]

4 stocks please.

 

[Revven]

My main question is, WILL THERE BE TEAMS!?

Not as a main event, there's several other games there. Though I'm sure someone will be willing to run teams as a small side event anyway if there's enough demand and doesn't take away any setups from the tournament.

 

[Bones0]

Speaking of time constraints, should we be lowering the timer? 8 minutes is way too high for an event of this scale.

Yeah I believe we lowered the timer to 5 or 6 minutes last time at Evo. 8 minutes is too long.

For what it's worth, I would caution against lowering the timer to 6 minutes. The lower the timer is, the easier it is to time someone out. If someone thinks they can stall vs. their opponent for 6 minutes, it's quite likely the match will go the full 6 minutes. When you have an 8 minute timer, people are less likely to attempt timing out opponents because it's much harder to stall for 8 minutes without getting killed than it is to stall for just 6 minutes. Even though it seems paradoxical, you may end up increasing the average set length when you lower the time limit. I doubt it will matter much either way, but it might make a difference later in the bracket if you have matches waiting on sets in which players are trying to time out their opponent for the full 6 minutes instead of fight straight up for 3-4 minutes.

i think apex ruleset w/ simpler counterpicking and NO BUTTON CHECKING would be fine

Button checking/warmups/handjobs are important because it allows players to adjust to the television and ensure that their controller is plugged in properly without any drift on their stick or some other issue.

Please stop calling them "button checks"

People just practice their tech skill (i.e., warming up) and they're not really checking buttons to see if they're functional.

People definitely ARE checking to see if they're functional. Plugging a controller in when your stick is pushed in a certain direction will screw you up big time, and like I said above, CRTs can be weird for multiple reasons (color is off, sound is weird, and some even lag which is why I personally always check a TV before I compete on it). I have no problem limiting them to 30-60 seconds though.

 

[Melty Venus]

People definitely ARE checking to see if they're functional. Plugging a controller in when your stick is pushed in a certain direction will screw you up big time, and like I said above, CRTs can be weird for multiple reasons (color is off, sound is weird, and some even lag which is why I personally always check a TV before I compete on it). I have no problem limiting them to 30-60 seconds though.

I'm pretty sure you can check if your analog stick is moving by itself in the character select screen. The CRT thing sounds a bit too OCD for me. I mean, if the color is blatantly off, you can tell without even "button checking" but if it's like minor discoloration, that's a bit too nitpicky; same thing with the sound (I can hardly hear the TV in a tournament environment anyways). As for the lag, I don't know about that but I'll take your word for it.

 

[Strong Badam]

APEX ruleset with Wobbling legal is the best ruleset.

@Trahh how we "look" at EVO or any tournament for that matter should not be a factor in our ruleset. Wobbling is not broken and should not be banned in any tournament. I'd be more worried about smashers being disrespectful or generally unpleasant than putting rules in place to make sure the things that might be "unpleasant" to some of us about the game are prevented. You don't see people going around trying to ban Rest. #freeiceclimbers

I really hate when I get grabbed by an ICs in any situation, and getting wobbled sucks. I also hate it when I get drill shine -> upsmash'd, or utilt -> rested, or Ken combo'd. I'd rather our game remain pure and untouched. The only rule that should be in place regarding wobbling is preventing stalling-based usage.

BTW I'm glad to hear you're going with 4 stocks 6 mins. There is too much fear of time-outs occurring in this game. It won't happen in the vast majority of situations, and when it does, it'll take 2 less minutes. :]

 

[Signia]

APEX ruleset with Wobbling legal is the best ruleset.

Yup, stick with what has worked, no changes.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wobbling Legal

DSR for Bo3, no DSR for Bo5

#freeiceclimbers

 

[Clever]

So from what i gathered is wobbling is banned because it's to hard for average players to handle. But this is EVO, where we see who is the best of the best. If it doesn't affect high level play then i don't see a problem with it.

 

[PB&J]

I first want to say Thank You MR. Wizard for doing all this for the melee community.

I think we should have pause turned off and 4 stocks with 6 minute timer.

I guess the whole wobbling thing will be legal as im reading everyone's post so ...#freeiceclimbers

P.S.- Ken- train with m=Mango and become the King again

P.P.S- I hope we can have a doubles side tourny and a crew battle for the evo community can see how hype melee can really get.

 

[luzbwl]

Yes, side crew battle and side doubles plus m2k vs mango hype mm!

Oh and I'm happy for wobbling being legal #FREEICECLIMBERS

 

[alejandroidex]

APEX ruleset with Wobbling legal.
Pause Turned off
4 stocks - 7 min

Thanks Mr. Wizard for the second chance, also thanks to all the EVO and SRK members/founder, etc.

 

[Fox Hater]

Really wobbling..?..?

After watching this Amanita vs Sfat is there a wobbling tech really necesary...

Mr wiz I know there is a lot of controversy about IC infinite, but i dont think its necesary, IC's metagame has evolved a lot and they have found other ways and mix ups to win
If you care please check this link the last minute grabs seems pretty legit to me

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6QiUhr-uZlc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=6QiUhr-uZlc


Also It could be interesting to see if 5 minutes and 3 stocks could work. ive played like that in friendlies with my friends when there is only one set up and a lot of people waiting and it works. What do you guys think??

 

[Renth]

allow wobbling

Let's allow the freeze glitch while we're at it.

 

[King Funk]

Agreed with Bones, 6 minutes is too low, and would increase the likelyhood of time outs. While I know matches don't reach 6 minutes that often at all, many players would be tempted to try timing out opponents especially in some of the slower match ups (Puff), or on Pokemon Stadium. I think you'll actually end up making the tournament run longer if you implement 6 minutes.

If you think about it, a lot of match ups can average 5 minutes (almost any char vs Puff ; Marth/Sheik/Peach vs Peach), and when only 1 minute is left on the clock players WILL start thinking about timing out.

If you want to run 6 minutes, you better run 3 stocks. 1 stock for 2 minutes has always been a healthy recipe.

Some of you might complain it'd be too short, but you should remember that most of the other fighting games at EVO tend to have much shorter sets than we do, so it would only be natural to use 3 stocks if you are worried about time constraints.

 

[sephirothken]

#freeiceclimbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsbLZq7AUII

 

[King Funk]

To explain my reasoning:

-> players will often consider timing out their opponents when 1 minute is left on the clock
-> in a 4-stock ruleset, extremely few matches reach 7 minutes (less than 5% of matches) ; 8 minutes acts as deterrence for attempting to time out
-> in a 4-stock ruleset, a good number of matches reach 5 minutes (about 15-20% of matches)

A 4-stock, 6 minute ruleset would increase the likelyhood of timeouts/time stalling and end up making the tournament run slower than faster.

If you absolutely believe the Melee tournament should run faster than it usually does (I honestly don't think it needs to because it'll be bracket pools ; double elim anyway), you should look at the stocks and not at the time.

My suggestions are either:
- 4 stocks // 8 minutes (the usual, should run fast enough anyway)
- 3 stocks // 6 minutes (will run extremely fast but not necessary)

 

[Beat!]

Apex ruleset, wobbling legal.

Mr wiz I know there is a lot of controversy about IC infinite, but i dont think its necesary

So your argument is "it should be banned because it's not necessary"?



Whether or not ICs players can do other grab combos is irrelevant. They should be allowed to wobble if they want to. People who want to go for other stuff are completely free to do so even with wobbling allowed.

 

[Vain]

#freeiceclimbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsbLZq7AUII

So you lost this match to wobbling, yet your competitive spirit is so high that you'd let it it be free, you're amazing!

Or maybe it's just sarcasm.
Either way, after that display of wobbling, why would anyone want a match to go down like that? Apex rules are fine, but why would we want this sort of thing to go down and be exposed to in the FGC?

 

[WindMajor]

I'm a Melee noob and I think Wobbling looks cool.

 

[Revven]

To explain my reasoning:

-> players will often consider timing out their opponents when 1 minute is left on the clock
-> in a 4-stock ruleset, extremely few matches reach 7 minutes (less than 5% of matches) ; 8 minutes acts as deterrence for attempting to time out
-> in a 4-stock ruleset, a good number of matches reach 5 minutes (about 15-20% of matches)

A 4-stock, 6 minute ruleset would increase the likelyhood of timeouts/time stalling and end up making the tournament run slower than faster.

If you absolutely believe the Melee tournament should run faster than it usually does (I honestly don't think it needs to because it'll be bracket pools ; double elim anyway), you should look at the stocks and not at the time.

My suggestions are either:
- 4 stocks // 8 minutes (the usual, should run fast enough anyway)
- 3 stocks // 6 minutes (will run extremely fast but not necessary)

Funk, I remember at one time the default timer used to be 7 minutes. Any reason why it was bumped up to 8 in the last couple of years? If we wanted to lower the timer and keep the stocks the same, since you say less then 5% of matches reach 7 minutes, wouldn't it be better to just have it at 7 minutes and 4 stocks? Getting the best of both worlds, where the timer isn't too low for people to ledgestall to victory and/or other stalling tactics?

 

[Juushichi]

Timeouts are a viable strategy... and not just in SF x T where it kinda interferes with the gameplay (less so in v2013! but I think that should have had a marvel timer).

4 stocks, 6 minutes is fine. M2K shino stalling someone for the last minute or so would kinda be hilarious.

 

[Eval]

3 stocks 5 minutes. Try it.

 

[MK26]

Let me rephrase: DSR modified makes it so the order that you won the matches in matters.

So, we've established that if m2k wins on FD and his opponent takes 2 attempts to win on his cp, then m2k can pick FD again. But what about the case where his opponent wins on his cp on the first attempt? Then m2k has to pick a different stage, and thus this prevents him from using FD twice in the same set.

I obviously agree with the theory behind counterpicking but it seems like double jeopardy that if you lose on your own counterpick, you enable your opponent to pick his best stage for a second time. It just seems to defeat the whole purpose of the "modified" part of the rule.

So how would you write the rule to avoid the double jeopardy situation without negating what DSR Modified was originally created for (which, to the best of my knowledge, was to allow the neutral pick to be used as a counterpick at the end of a bo5 by the person who won on it)? Or should gentleman's rule cover that in the case that both players are ok with going back to the neutral?

 

[Bones0]

Read my post on the previous page, MK26.

 

[Problem2]

If we do need to change the rules due to time restraints, we definitely must be careful about not lowering the timer so low that it encourages timeouts in every game. Brawl and SFxT are both examples of when the timer is so low that you naturally end up in a game state where timing out is often a vaible strategy. Neither player is necessarily trying to slow play and go to time. Literally, by just playing out the game by trying to defeat your opponent and play smart, you eat up 80% of the time, and by this time, the winning player notices that making the game go to time is more feasible than rushing in to KO the opponent.

I would not recommend taking away best of 3. If we need to change the rules due to time restraints, we should probably do 3 stocks, 6 minutes. (It was decided long ago that the timer should be the # of stocks x 2)

3 Stocks is the default stock count anyways. Our decision to make it 4 stocks has nothing to do with trying to balance the game, but is more of a preference to how long we wanted our games to take.

 

[Juushichi]

It's not that the timer is (s)low that it encourages timeouts in Brawl, it's more that the gameplay and the rewards of good decisions / punishments for bad decisions are not good or hard enough in the latter case that it speeds up the game.