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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

_eternal

_eternal

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May 15, 2010
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Toronto, Canada
No vids this time because I had a few incorrect settings in Virtual Dub, but I have trouble against aggressive spacies. How are they "supposed" to play the MU? Do they generally want to get in Marth's face and pressure, or does that only work on scrubby Marths who have inconsistent punishes?

Either way, I'm noticing that I do way worse when spacies mains go full aggro with no respect. Are there any general things I should be doing to stop this? I always run out of space to DD grab and dtilt everywhere but FD and Dream Land. Not sure if I should be more aggressive and approach them or just wait for a mistake and hope for a gimp. The latter isn't working too well.
 
ArcNatural

ArcNatural

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_eternal said:
No vids this time because I had a few incorrect settings in Virtual Dub, but I have trouble against aggressive spacies. How are they "supposed" to play the MU? Do they generally want to get in Marth's face and pressure, or does that only work on scrubby Marths who have inconsistent punishes?

Either way, I'm noticing that I do way worse when spacies mains go full aggro with no respect. Are there any general things I should be doing to stop this? I always run out of space to DD grab and dtilt everywhere but FD and Dream Land. Not sure if I should be more aggressive and approach them or just wait for a mistake and hope for a gimp. The latter isn't working too well.
Click to expand...
Yes they want to get in Marth's face and pressure. They have less range (not counting projectiles) and priority than you do. If they are confident in their l-canceling staying close to you and not giving you room to space is the most effective way to kill you. It works on every Marth.

Without videos it's hard to judge. But proper dash dancing and evasion is done from roughly dash attack range. Any farther and you have to ask yourself what you're even baiting. The only time you should try to be further away than that is if you don't think they are going to camp you and you think you can punish them near the edge or easily read their approaches. But you should be comfortable being able to DD and bait from close to them.

Learn to pivot grab (not for the CG, but for being able to grab approaches with proper spacing), mix up your DD (dash past them when they approach opposed to backwards for example), learn the timings for wavedash oos (usually after shine), CC grab/ASDI down grab all your attacks (this nets sooo many free grabs), etc.
 
_eternal

_eternal

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Thanks. That helped a lot, actually. What should I be CCing? Nair?

Also, how would this apply to Falco? Seems like I can't dtilt because he hops over it while lasering, and DDing barely works because that just leads to a laser to the face. I like to full hop/dj spaced fair to approach campy Falcos (which I think is safe), but against aggressive ones, I find it hard to deal with his horizontal control. I feel like the only options are ps laser -> grab (which I'm inconsistent with) or try to read shield pressure and get out with shield grab or nair oos -> techchase grab. I can always escape with WD OOS but then he just approaches again. Should I be doing something while he's approaching but before he dairs my shield? I can't dd back like vs Fox thanks to lasers.
 
ShroudedOne

ShroudedOne

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That sounds weird, that he's jumping over your dtilts with lasers. Either you're choosing bad times, or he's calling them out? Either way, I'd focus more on reacting to his movement with dtilts, for more guaranteed hits, if that makes sense.
 
_eternal

_eternal

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Okay, so something like shield laser -> wd oos -> dtilt as he lands? Or if I'm already facing him I guess I can just crouch and poke.
 
ArcNatural

ArcNatural

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_eternal said:
Thanks. That helped a lot, actually. What should I be CCing? Nair?

Also, how would this apply to Falco? Seems like I can't dtilt because he hops over it while lasering, and DDing barely works because that just leads to a laser to the face. I like to full hop/dj spaced fair to approach campy Falcos (which I think is safe), but against aggressive ones, I find it hard to deal with his horizontal control. I feel like the only options are ps laser -> grab (which I'm inconsistent with) or try to read shield pressure and get out with shield grab or nair oos -> techchase grab. I can always escape with WD OOS but then he just approaches again. Should I be doing something while he's approaching but before he dairs my shield? I can't dd back like vs Fox thanks to lasers.
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My friend Zoso is incredible at PS'ing lasers (try crouching before PS makes it easier). Work on Minimizing your shield time to help maintain your spacing and movement. Basically by trying to only shield lasers/moves at the last second and immediately wavedashing or jumping out will not only make you faster but will also give you PS opportunities. I got better at reacting when I powershielded with this method.

I occasionally fj space lasers, or use platforms for wavelanding. I also like jumping into lasers or getting hit by lasers while holding back and fairing with the c-stick right after. Abuse your spacing once you get close enough to prevent them from lasering easily. Jab/Ftilt/Dtilt range you can obviously throw those moves out or maybe get a grab.

My main issue with really good Falco's is I just lose focus, slip up on my wavedashes oos or get caught in shield too much. I think it's really about getting used to the movement in the matchup and never losing focus of that.
 
ChinesePanda777

ChinesePanda777

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Oct 11, 2009
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Anyone in the mood for some critiquing? I've recently started really wanting to get competitive/better. I'm still figuring out the neutral game, basic execution (up-tilt), trying not to throw out ****ty aerials, learning to DI and edgeguard better, etc but need more knowledgeable people to expose more weaknesses.

Here's some vids from NWM
vs Falcon
Fox 1
Fox 2 (laggy but really wanted it because I lost)
Falco

Not my greatest but still pretty indicative of my skill. Thanks in advance, any advice is greatly appreciated!
 
Aber

Aber

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Dec 8, 2010
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A whole bunch of new videos me vs. Proskater (all Marth vs. Fox)

Look at any you want just let me know what video your referencing if you have any specific comments.....Thanks in advance people



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6QdmzIpEk&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&index=15&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT2irhxmcVc&feature=BFa&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&lf=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUk1Ft5LdtE&feature=BFa&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&lf=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eESyOIZ5Q30&feature=BFa&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&lf=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6TBarOOQYE&feature=BFa&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&lf=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMtFqXDQn1o&feature=BFa&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&lf=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdzMyOo4iJA&feature=BFa&list=UULSTS4bvoWZEynFz4L7BKWg&lf=plcp
 
Stylez

Stylez

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ChinesePanda777 said:
Anyone in the mood for some critiquing? I've recently started really wanting to get competitive/better. I'm still figuring out the neutral game, basic execution (up-tilt), trying not to throw out ****ty aerials, learning to DI and edgeguard better, etc but need more knowledgeable people to expose more weaknesses.

Here's some vids from NWM
vs Falcon
Fox 1
Fox 2 (laggy but really wanted it because I lost)
Falco

Not my greatest but still pretty indicative of my skill. Thanks in advance, any advice is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
I feel like the first match with falcon wasn't very indicative of your skill based off the other three. It looked like you made errors due to nervousness or something (e.g., missing a waveland, techs, etc), and you didn't really follow up on anything.
Forward air is an easy punish to his nair approach, but you just sort of hit him out of it and then stood there
You hit him with the tip of nair and he missed a shield grab from it; in your match with fox the same happened but you punished with dtilt
There's actually a lot more but it's gonna be along the same lines so i'll just say EDGE GUARD FOX. :smirk:

Side Note: I'm trying to learn by critiquing and possibly way off so take my advice lightly haha
 
Archangel

Archangel

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combat22386
danieljosebatista said:
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the scene and this is one of the few videos I have of myself, just a few days ago actually. Any critique would be appreciated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZNUv9tjiwA
Click to expand...
You made so many general errors in this MU in game 1. I'm gonna guess you don't play against good Falcons too often or needed time to adapt.

NEVER Fsmash spam at a distant Falcon because it's free ****.

You missed to kills in the first minute and half by not taking the ledge when Falcon was off stage.

you seemed not to DI or to DI upwards at times...not sure what that was about.

I'll think of more a bit later
 
Chip.

Chip.

you know what to do
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No, DI away at low to medium % against his aerials and his grab -> uthrow/dthrow at low to high %.

DI'ing away allows you to not get comboed as much and harder for him to combo off a grab. DI his aerials up when you're at a high % to survive longer. Anytime you expect a knee DI up
 
Niko45

Niko45

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at mid % if you DI up throw in and then DI away immediately for first uair it makes it much harder for him to string up airs together on you
 
Chip.

Chip.

you know what to do
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True, but also they could knee instead of upair at that percent (like 70) and if you're DI'ing away it can kill you =/ it's happened to me before
 
GaGa

GaGa

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Ref: AS17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZHdN6WnwDA


- this is somewhat old considering how much I play melee and how much I've changed but every piece of advice helps. my marth is still trash xD

- the main things I focused on were PS'ing lasers, my horrible spacing, and my movement/speed.

P.S. - its pretty long. kthanks :p
:phone:
 
Metal Reeper

Metal Reeper

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Falcon vs Marth: You need to DD your *** off and wait until Marth throws out some stupid attack then you run in and **** him. Dthrow Marth until about 32%. Then always Uthrow>Uairs and you can sometimes knee. If marth is above 60% you can Uthrow>Knee. If you throw Marth at very low % and he DI's away you can chaingrab him. If he DI's in he can jump out and you can't grab him because he goes too high. But you can nair and sometimes uair.

Marth vs Falcon: You need to not throw out random attacks, accuracy is everything. Uthrow gives you the most frame advantage when tech chasing but he can jump out of it. If you know he's going to jump (They usually do) you can Uthrow>nair. At about 42% if you Uthrow Falcon you can Uthrow>Utilt>continue combo. If you Fthrow>Dtilt Falcon offstage you can run off>fair>fair and gimp him easily. DO NOT GET GRABBED. When Falcon Dthrows you at very low % you should DI in and try to jump away. If Falcon nairs then you can DI the nair behind him so the 2nd kick doesn't hit you. I hope this helped.
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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t-iceman said:
Up throw knee never combos if you di up and away.
Click to expand...
i don't really believe you

how and why does that work?

u-throw sends you like, up and BARELY away, so if you DI up and away on the uthrow, it'll have the exact same effect as very slight DI away on the u-throw.
 
t-iceman

t-iceman

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It is never guaranteed, trust me lol ive tested it, i think there is some percents where you sometimes will jump into the knee but it is definitely not guaranteed
 
Shroomed

Shroomed

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t-iceman said:
It is never guaranteed, trust me lol ive tested it, i think there is some percents where you sometimes will jump into the knee but it is definitely not guaranteed
Click to expand...
I refuse to believe this. I've knee'd a lot and have gotten kneed'd a lot with every type of DI imagineable.

:phone:
 
Ørn

Ørn

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Anyone feel like critiquing some friendlies I had with Armada a month ago?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCMsLwDeN1k#t=22m40s

I play Marth for about 20 minutes starting at that point. The first 8 minutes are Marth dittos and the rest is vs. Fox/Falco.

On one hand I feel like I was really on top of my game, but on the other hand I feel like I missed a bunch of fundamental things.
 
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