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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

Bing

Smash Master
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Nov 8, 2010
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St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Hmm, apparently I need to stop fairing right at the very end I guess cause I do that **** ALL the time...

Any tips on the Marth - Sheik MU? I heard that Kels went Sheik vs against Dart(read earlier) so Im going to watch that later. :p
 

t-iceman

Smash Journeyman
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May 18, 2010
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I have the most fun playing him out of any character in the game.
ROFL yessss, thats why i went with him too. That and i didnt want to **** my hands by playing spacies

EDIT for bing: in terms of marth vs shiek, hope the shiek is worse than you and then you are probably ok
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
791
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Austin, TX
Gonna be posting a bunch of vids here from a recent tourney in the next few days. Among which I get ***** by Roy.
 

t-iceman

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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Can I get a baseline critique on my Marth?

http://www.youtube.com/user/dddonttrip?ob=0

Vids on that channel. =D
The first thing that i can see of note is that your edgeguarding against falco was fairly timid and it got to the point where brandon upb'd high several times in a row and you would wiff fsmash every time, whereas if you had jab and the fsmashed you would have covered both options. If you read that falco is just up b'ing every time go out there and hit him with a fair/reverse up b. Also at around 10:50 you did an up throw and brandon did di away and was off the stage in which case you can just full hop dair (you can also use this mixup on spacies at around 30%-90% very effectively as if you grab them very close to and facing an edge you can force them to guess as to the optimal di for if they di in you could fthrow and get a free dtilt/fsmash but if they di away you could upthrow and take a stock via dair). Also be VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU USE SIDE B!!! side b is either one of the greatest stalls marth has or it completely ****s you over cause you become predictable with it and your opponent punishes. Something that might seem minor but is actually fairly significant occurs at around 2:50 when you get the up air chain to the top of battlefield but for some reason you move slightly backwards off the midair jump for your final up air and as a result you did not have the ability to follow up with an fsmash whereas if you had just upaired without holding back you would have gotten that combo easy. There's other stuff i see but i would rather talk to you more about it at manifest :)
 

.Chipmunk.

Smash Ace
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Lawrenceville, GA
(you can also use this mixup on spacies at around 30%-90% very effectively as if you grab them very close to and facing an edge you can force them to guess as to the optimal di for if they di in you could fthrow and get a free dtilt/fsmash but if they di away you could upthrow and take a stock via dair).
I'm pretty sure you can angle the dair in such a way that even if they DI in you can still spike them off the stage. If I'm not mistaken it's the left and right tippers at the beginning and end of the move.
 

Dart!

Smash Master
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@shroomed
Go after falco. this is a matchup where you can just go ham and ****. Don't let falco get comfortable. just stay on his *** the whole time. If you feel like thats not working or hes predicting that run wavedash back and throw his mind off.
 

PurDi

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I don't really know anymore...
Oh cause my name is half of your name haha very funny. I need some real feedback though yo!
I know this is my first post on this thread, so don't completely disregard me, but also take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm trying to learn by teaching.

It looks like you could go offstage a little more in the fox matchup, you're good at putting him offstage but you don't optimize it when you do. While charging an fsmash or counter is good sometimes, it also gives him more time to react to you and choose a different direction with his upb. All, mix up the throws, at low percents, fthrow is a great mixup with upthrow; if he's di-ing back, you can fsmash or try for another grab. Overall, pretty good play, but kamaji was messing with your head a little bit, just be aware of where your opponent is going, patterns and things were pretty obvious in the first video.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Videos got uploaded! Listing sets in the order of which videos I want critique the MOST on lol.

Sets I Lost
Roy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg3YqBCsjWE (7:35; last match wasn't recorded for some reason)
Fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSiucIqu4ag (part 1, 10:01)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmJjkprKcqo (part 2, 1:34)

Sets I Won (if you're bored or like watching my Marth or something; the opponents were still very good/better than me)
Marth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRYEKdwRWh4 (7:44; particularly game 2)
Falcon/Fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIFWqfgOrU0 (11:07; cool combo on 3rd stock of game 3)
Falco/Fox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AQyK72kR48 (8:31)

Welcoming all criticisms, comments, and perhaps any compliments also (lol).

What is Roy?!?!?
 

Dart!

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Making a post for critiquing your vids MT
First off just gonna say you were flailing in the air at roy. you don't need to worry about him if he throws you in the air, just avoid his wet noodle sword. Get on the ground and do what you did at the very beginning after you...jumped at him. don't jump at roy. Grab up throw and defeat him (just like you would sheik)
seems like you started to do it but were just going for fsmash too much and getting punished. Don't give roy any credit, he is BAD. And grab the ledge too, force him onstage. the landing lag for him is just as bad as marths. roys grab is only smaller than marths due to heighth so it still has good range
 

TheCrimsonBlur

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I'm gonna comment on Marth v. Roy since I play both characters..

Stay grounded. Repeat. Stay grounded. His side B is actually quite wonderful at stuffing your aerial approaches, and he can get some decent damage after it. Short hop walls have substantial risk because his dashdance is comparable to your own. In this way it is similar to the Marth ditto. Platform camping may seem tempting because he can't really hit you when you are up there, but its very tough to counterattack either; side B and dashdance are that big of threats.

As Dart said, uthrow. Roy is so so so bad in the air. Combo him like Falco. Edgeguarding is rather simple but if your having trouble remember runoff counter. Crouch cancel his upB; don't lose positioning if you can't get the edgeguard.

If you are in a tricky spot, just shield. Take the grab, its not that big of a deal. You should live forever in this matchup as long as you don't get hit by a random fsmash. Whenever Roy sees someone in his shield all hes trying to do is bait something to get a gimmicky fsmash. Don't fall for it and be patient. Lightshield and angle so you don't get shieldstabbed. Eventually he'll dance around your shield so much that you can just do something OOS and **** him.

If hes in a bad spot, just crouch outside his shield. Looks for WD OOS, roll, and (possibly) upB OOS. All of these are super easy to cover and he'll have to choose one out of fear of getting shield stabbed by dtilt. Roys tend to be very defensive after a tech so don't worry about a hitbox being thrown out. He WILL shield/roll/dash. Remember that Roy hates to be on the edge so on techchases make covering roll into the stage a priority. Cover tech in place at the edge with a dtilt; thats so often a stock that you don't need to try reaction grabs/fsmashes. Even if you somehow miss you'll just get his shield and hes still effed. Poor Roy.

Like most low tier MUs, dtilt is your best move. WD dtilt, dash dtilt, walk dtilt...do it all. It may look like Roy has similar range as you but he does not. Push him to the edge. Don't gamble by going in with grabs as much as you're used to; Roy is actually rather hard to grab. Just be patient and push push push. The stock will evaporate once you get your opportunity. Dashdancing is awesome as always but tbh I'd be careful with it. You want to keep dtilt as a threat. If you really want to approach, try dash attack. Its pretty safe against Roy.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
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Thanks for the advice guys, I am definitely goin to have to work on my dtilt game versus Roy and in Marth dittos in general I think.

How am I supposed to DI Roy's throws? I was drawing on Marth ditto matchup experience and trying to DI away on fthrow but it seemed that Sethlon opted to dthrow->side-b or fsmash me a lot... Is Roy able to punish Marth hard if you DI his fthrow in? If not maybe I will just DI everything behind Roy to avoid getting combo'd from dthrow...

And @Dart: lol at "wet noodle"; surprisingly accurate description...

:phone:
 

Dart!

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yeah i've been playing ripple for years (was better than sethlon at one point) and he used to RAAAAPE me. Then i learned how to beat bad characters. Down tilt is your friend.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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yeah i've been playing ripple for years (was better than sethlon at one point) and he used to RAAAAPE me. Then i learned how to beat bad characters. Down tilt is your friend.
those were the good days. :(
 

Ripple

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That would be such a legit team. And Roy/Marth... who are actually being played by good players. I'd love to see that...
I'm incredibly bad at teams, Dart can confirm this. if you ever see us team, it'll be friendlies.
 

ShroudedOne

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Zelda actually seems to get lots better in teams. I don't know about anyone else, though.
 

Dart!

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pikachu is ******** in teams
pika isn't low tier. Link is pretty decent, game and watch is alright...pichu makes a great battery (pun intended) surprisingly he doesn't just get pushed around since the teams atmosphere is crazy so the opponent can't focus on stuffing everything pichu has.

yoshi can be sick in teams, bowser probably sucks still. ness is still bad. Kirby could be a good life tank and damage spunge. Uh, young link idk maybe a good damage builder. same with mario can live forever due to being in a good weight class and can build damage for a character with a good finisher.
 

The Good Doctor

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pika isn't low tier. Link is pretty decent, game and watch is alright...pichu makes a great battery (pun intended) surprisingly he doesn't just get pushed around since the teams atmosphere is crazy so the opponent can't focus on stuffing everything pichu has.

yoshi can be sick in teams, bowser probably sucks still. ness is still bad. Kirby could be a good life tank and damage spunge. Uh, young link idk maybe a good damage builder. same with mario can live forever due to being in a good weight class and can build damage for a character with a good finisher.
If a Sheik is on the other team, dealing with low tiers gets a lot easier.
 

Niko45

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Low tiers generally get much better in teams imo, as most of them have pretty good punish games if they can actually get hits, which teams frees them up to potentially get more. A lot of them also have really slow long recoveries which makes edgeguarding them more difficult.
 
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Zelda actually seems to get lots better in teams. I don't know about anyone else, though.
Zelda probably improves the most in teams. She can put her far reaching recovery to use and not get edge guarded. She can get back down to the ground and get less juggled. Having a partner to distract opponents is god sent for her
 

The Good Doctor

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Low tiers generally get much better in teams imo, as most of them have pretty good punish games if they can actually get hits, which teams frees them up to potentially get more. A lot of them also have really slow long recoveries which makes edgeguarding them more difficult.
Which allows a 2-1 against their partner while they recover.
 
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