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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

MT_

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
Archangel said:
You have some room for improvement but I can see the strides you have made since the last time you posted a video here. I wish I had the anti-laser game down.

anyway. I noticed you sometimes recover to close to the edge. Like the very first kill for example and the last one of the first match. If you are going to be that close you should have try to feel out the opponent's attack and air dodge on stage from that close. Also sometimes you try to hard to DI through Falco. As strange as it sounds you are better off DI'ing out and away from the stage than trying to DI in and through him. If you don't smash DI perfectly you become easy combo food. If Falco is above you and still has a jump left then you have to follow up on him while he is still stunned/in a disadvantageous situation. If he does not have a jump you should still look to catch him with a well timed Uair/Utilt. However if he has been in the air for awhile don't be shocked if he goes for an air-dodge. In which case you should just wait and punish accordingly....umm I'm bad at giving advice in this MU tbh so..this is all I have for now lol.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice! I did a mental facepalm when I got hit by that fsmash on the first stock haha. I definitely see what you're saying about trying to DI through Falco. It gets me set up for easy dairs (like the dash attack->dair that happened) and I'll keep in mind the away DI. IT JUST SEEMS SO COUNTERINTUITIVE lol.

Thanks again for the advice! Anyone have anything else to add?
 
M

mexicanmax227

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
133
Location
Clinton, Mississippi
LOL just found this from like 08 when i tried disecting footage



MLg Dallas 2006
pc chris vs Ken
Match 1



WHEW THE FIRST KO OF ONE OF MY FAVORITE MATCHES

WATCH IT FIRST
AT YOUTUBE.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw8S35JN6Uc
TYPE MLG DALLAS 2006 PC VS. Ken MATCH 1


roll
Dash off plat into Back air
Dash dance 2 mini into short hop then retreat air jump back on plat

tried baiting for kens most comfortable approach and safest I think??
short hop off left plat then airjump into middle map getting hit lands

When Marth gets hit he d I 's toward center of map I think???

turns Marth opposite direction then blocks
Then while bottom mid rolls right under right plat

Diddnt get shined and wasn't being attacked at that time so he relocated towards right side of map, which is closer to edge and if falco made any mistake then Ken couldve capitalized by grabing or trick by rolling back onto middle to regain mid control cuz remember if Ken gets shined it's cuz he prolly tried to grab u, and where a better place to commit a grab then on bottom mid of dreamland, only grab from kens current location if the falco really obviously snicks up, here I would say wait for an opening, in this match falco full jumps and Ken just dash dance grabs which acres pc completely or try to jump out of there or sumthin I think????

Crouch cancels at least two lasers while falco has space in between then blocks and rolls left


(((((((The reason he crouch cancels is as bait, so he can get falco to approach a roll or sumthin, THAT'S WHY KEN INSISTS ON GRABING SO MUCH cuz IF U APPROACH WOTH NEUTRAL AIR SHINE THEN HE'LL ROLL OUT IF IT, MAKING THE FALCO TRY A DOFFERENT APPROACH CUZ IF HE KEEPS WITH THAT APPROACH THEN KEN LL HAVE THE UPPER HAND ROLLING AWAY WHILE UR SHUFFLING, troublesome towards enemy, SO THE ENEMYS MIND IS ALWAYS CHANGING RIGHT, so Ken ALWAYS GRABS, ESPECIALLY BOTTOM MID, CUZ IF THE ENEMY DOESN'T CHANGE THAN THIS MARTHS IMSTINCTS AND REACTION WILL BUT**** THE BIRDS APPROACH, IM NOT SAYING ALWAYS GRAB JUST LEARN YOUR OPPONENTS APPROACH THE WAY THIS GUY DID AND DOMINATE, did y'all NOT DEE IT EARLIER BAITING FALCO FROM TOP TO GET UDER HIM, taking a hi bottom mid AFTER GIVING HIM HELL TO TRY AND APPROACH U, attempting GRABS BOTTOM MID KNOWING FALCOS MOST DEADLY APPROACH IS HIS SHINE BUT ATTEMPTS GRAB ANYWAY CUX UR BOTTOM MID, the SHINELL SHOOT U UP USUALLY SAFELY ON MID PLAT, ROLLING RIGHT UNDER RIGHT PLAT AFTER PREDICTING AN APPROACH OR WAS TRYING TO POSITION HISSELF TO BETTER HISSELF OR WORSEN THE FALCOS APPROACH, once ONCE THAT GRABS STARTED ON A SPACY IT HURTS, develop. UR STRAT AROUND THIS!!!!))))))


THIS PARAGRAPGH THAT IVE SEPERATED BELOW IS QUITE IMPORTANT SO PAY ATTENTION
|||||
------
\ /


Then while falcos above crashing down on Marth Marth dash dancing and catches away from attack and grabs falco throws forwad after a kick

LEARN PERCENTAGES!!! first grab on falco while game ONE KICK FOWARD THROWS 7%

then throws up after a kick
KICK UPTHROWS 13%


while low percent then re grabs and kicks throw up then up tilt BAM!!!

GRABS AGAIN KICK AGAIN BUT THIS TIME 20% WAIT HE'S STILL IN THE AIR SO U GET A FREE UP TILT BAM!!!! 29%


cheap as hell
RANDOM ANOTHER THING I NOTICE IS WHENEVER KEN GETS REFLECTED BY FALCOS SHINE IT'S ALWAYS BOTTOM MID WHICH MEANS KEN GOT HIT BOTTOM MID OR WAS LESS DEFENSIVE BOTTOM MID CUZ IF HE GOT LASERED THEN HE'D JUST GET TO THE TOP PLAT AFTER THAT LASER WHICH IS SAFER THEN WATCHING MEWTWOKING GET SHINED UNDER LEFT PLAT BY PEPE AT ROM THREE HMMM

Anyways back to this game that up tilt forces falco to the ground, this falco just so happens to tech hit and roll
IN THIS SITUATION HE FIRWARD TILTS AS FALCOS TECHING THEN DASHING FOR A MIMD GAME

BUT KENS TRYING TO COVER MULTIPLE OPTIONS OR PREDICTING OR SOMETHING SO HE DASHES TOWARDS THE JUST GOT-HIT-BY CHEAP KEN STRAT- falcO AND BY DASHING TOEARDS THE STUNED PLAY BEING FORCED TO DECIDE QUICKLY KENS THINKING AHEAD AND READY TO DASH DANCE FOR ANOTHER GRAB OR BAIT ETC



Ken left tilts after that up tilt then dashes left then right into grab, it was a slower dash though??hmm

THE REASON HE FOREARD TILTS IS CUZ PRESSURING FALCO B4 he EVEN GETS UP THEN DASHES TOWARD FALCO BUT THE FALCO ROLLED DODGED OUT IF INSTINCT AND KEN GRABBED ONE AGAIN
Grabs again kick then throws up
NOW AFTER THIS CHEAP GRAB KICK UP THROW HE'S AT 35% BUT WAIT THE BIRD HAS YET TO HIT THE GROUND SO KEN JABS RIGHT b4 FALCO touches WHICH RIDICULOUSLY SLIMS THE CHANCE OF A TECH HIT


now the falco lands in front of Ken and b4 falco hits the ground the Marth jabs then dashes back and forth for a GRAB but it's spotdodged
When it's spotdodged Ken shields( for a split second) and f-air out of shields
WHEN A WELL LAYERED GRAB GAME STRATEGY STARTS TO WEAKEN THE PLAYERS OTHER INSTINCTS KICK IN

then b4 hits ground air jump towards falco

VERY WISE PLAYER STAYING AIRBORNE WHILE AGRESSING AS LOMG AS POSSIBLE HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD MINI JUMP FAIR THEN AIR JUMP AGAIN
but gets lasered that's when Ken blocks

WHEN U CAN LOGICALLY DOMINATE YOUR OPPONENTS APPROACHS THEN THESE ARE THE LATER GAME STRATS YOU SEE PERFORMED CUZ ITS JUST PLAYING OFF OF INSTINCT WHEN A MINDGAME DIDNT GO UR WAY
WHEN UR IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION U STILL WANNA STAY AGRO SO THIS IS HOW KEN HANDLES IT WITH A SH FAIR TheN AIR JUMP TOWARDS OPPONENT, I THINK AFTER THAT SECOND JUMP IT'S JUST SMARTER TO JUMP TOWARDS OPPONENT LIKE IF U PLAY AGAINST KILLA FALCOS IN THAT SITUATION IF U DON'T JUMP TOWARDS THEM THEN THEYLL OBLOMERATE U AND RACK UP% OFF SOME CHEAP APPROACH, BUT IN THIS MOMENT KEN WAITS FOR FALCO TO SWITCH UP STRAT OR APPROACH WITH SHUFFLE AND ATTEMPTS GRAB BUT WORST CASE SCENARIO AIN'T THAT BAD CUZ IF UR GRAB DOESN'T GO THROUGH THEN U GET SHINED TOP MID PLAT, REMEMBER UR APPROACH ALL ACTIONS LEADING UP TO THIS MOMENT, ALL MIND GAMES, BAITS, SHFFLS, PLAYED A PART IN THESE SITUATION, U PUT UR SELF HERE BOTTOM MID SO IF U WOULD GET SHINED, WHICH U DID NOT PLAN TO THEN UD POROPERLY AND LOGICALLY HANDLE IT IN A GARZA;) MAMMER AND IT DEFINITLY SHOWS THAT I ADMIRE THE THOUGHT U PUT IN THIS GAME, THIS U DIDNT PLAN BUT U DID PLAY IT BEAUTIFULLY TO YOUR FAVOR......I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN THIS YET!!!!!
ITS LIKE YOUR PLAN B MIDGAME STUFF, NOT THE MOST LOGICAL WAY TO APPROACH BUT SINCE YOUR OPONNENT HAS A BRAIN WHEN YOU TRIED TO JUKE HIM WITH UR BAIT HE SHARPED THROUGH NOW THE NEXT LOGICAL THING TO DO WAS THIS, AGRESS HIM SO HE DONT AGRESS U, AND WORK HIS BRAIN

STAYING AGRO WHILE YOUR OPPONENT FORCING TO PLAY BY YOUR AGRESSIVE SITUATIONAL PLACEMENT
again and attempts a grab, don't forget he's under bottom mid, but gets shined by falcos SH bair l-cancel shine
He's forced up to to mid plat
He gets hit by a dair from falcos massive jump then Ken lands Into shield he then block a dair spike into landing up tilt from falco
After he takes a hit from falcos up tilt, don't forget that Ken landed a Lil left on mid plat, Ken rolls left then drops through mid plat

KENS NOW UNDER OPPONENT VERY CHEAP
He then air jumps from fall and nails falco with a c hit( not slash or rip registry)
PRETTY MEAN BAITING WHILE AGRESSING
Then while falcos recovering landing from closely above mid plat, don't forget that Ken hit this blow not having another jump and still undermid plat, fastfalls a couple spilit seconds after the momentum from air JUmp before dashing off midplat and landing closer to the right side of underneath mid plat on bottom mid

IN POSITION TO DO ANYTHING BAIT RELATING KEN DASH DANCE THE RUN TOWARDS SMASH FOR A HOMERUN( low percent tipper)
Then he dashdance baits while there decent space between himself and the current falco aiming for the ground
Then out of a left facing dash closes in space, using instincts predicting
CLOSING IN SPACE AND PREDICTS MOVEMENT FOR A SICK SMASH FINISHER

movement or a laser or anything from falco, and smash left at 49 damage which is beautifully timed so it's worth 20percent and sends falco to his doom, I think falco frgot to di but Ken usually does that to folks the first stock is taken

WHEW THE FIRST KO OF ONE OF MY FAVORITE MATCHES
 
Construct

Construct

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Messages
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NEOH
MT_ said:
I seem to have a lot of trouble taking advantage of Falco when he's above me, and DEFINITELY a lot of trouble trying to get onto the stage once I've grabbed the ledge. All criticisms/advice are welcome!
Click to expand...
He consistently is spotdodging your utilts/uairs when he's on a platform. When you see someone do spotdodge a uair/utilt more than once in a match, it means they've got it as a habit. Bait it out by waiting a moment for them to dodge, then attacking.

For recovering onto the stage, throw in a ledgehop counter every now and then. I don't recall seeing you do that, and that would have worked nicely against the way he was punishing your recoveries.

That guy has a pretty intense laser game which you dealt with pretty well. I suck against lasers, haha. Good stuff MT.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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MT nice powershields in the beginning. Try to WD at him after powershields instead of whiffing fair. It's a bad habit to fair after a PS.

You are whiffing a ton of fairs oos in general just I guess after failing a PS you end up locked in shield and are just kinda taking a guess at when he will come in trying to catch him and he's not biting. If you miss a PS just drop your shield and take the next laser, don't start committing to all sorts of stuff because then he literally just sits there and lasers and just watches you lag in front of him and proceeds into full combos.

Taking lasers and dash attacking under the next laser also completely dismantles falcos who laser in place repeatedly like this, so you don't even really need to be going for PS's this much.
 
MT_

MT_

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Joined
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Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
Construct said:
He consistently is spotdodging your utilts/uairs when he's on a platform. When you see someone do spotdodge a uair/utilt more than once in a match, it means they've got it as a habit. Bait it out by waiting a moment for them to dodge, then attacking.

For recovering onto the stage, throw in a ledgehop counter every now and then. I don't recall seeing you do that, and that would have worked nicely against the way he was punishing your recoveries.

That guy has a pretty intense laser game which you dealt with pretty well. I suck against lasers, haha. Good stuff MT.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I definitely need to start baiting the spotdodges on platforms. For some reason it hadn't occurred to me haha. I'll try to work in ledgehop counter, but (I play Tirno all the time) in most of the friendlies that I try it in it only works like 50% of the time and the other 50% I get ***** for it... I probably just need to use it smarter and when I have a read on him. Thanks for the critique!

Niko45 said:
MT nice powershields in the beginning. Try to WD at him after powershields instead of whiffing fair. It's a bad habit to fair after a PS.

You are whiffing a ton of fairs oos in general just I guess after failing a PS you end up locked in shield and are just kinda taking a guess at when he will come in trying to catch him and he's not biting. If you miss a PS just drop your shield and take the next laser, don't start committing to all sorts of stuff because then he literally just sits there and lasers and just watches you lag in front of him and proceeds into full combos.

Taking lasers and dash attacking under the next laser also completely dismantles falcos who laser in place repeatedly like this, so you don't even really need to be going for PS's this much.
Click to expand...
Yeah I need to stop those fairs after PS, especially at lower percents like that. I just get CC'd to ***** lol. I did do more WDing at him after PS later though!

Your second paragraph on whiffing fairs rings so true that it hurts haha. I never even thought about just dropping my shield and taking the laser (why have I never thought of this?!) and I'm definitely going to try that. Fair OOS has become my habitual method to stuff Falco's approach but I'm getting super ***** for it and am trying to find other ways to stay grounded and deal with the laser/approach duality of the neutral game versus Falco.

Thanks so much for the advice man, I'll be trying this stuff out.
 
huMps

huMps

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Apr 27, 2010
Messages
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On the fence
JTeg's Marth is coming with a serious vengence. He's melee's human highlight reel. ****er is comboing hard!

suck it Jesse
 
Ballin

Ballin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
122
Hey guys, I played some friendlies with the best players in my state last weekend and recorded some.
Sorry in advance for quality, but it's actually pretty good for Cam.

I feel like I'm at the point where I can see a lot of my mistakes.
Up until a month or two ago, I'd just get ***** and wouldn't understand why, but I'm starting to see why I'm getting fvcked up lol.

Marth vs Shiek
http://youtu.be/ftd_ucB-R_g

vs Samus
http://youtu.be/bnMtNt8vtTM
http://youtu.be/3fGvtOtEeSE

vs Fox
http://youtu.be/k_L6Dw777Nc

vs Marth
http://youtu.be/Kvhnzibz3_A
http://youtu.be/hWdy4yPuaCM

I'm kind of a noob, so bare with me. Let me know the major things I can work on. Thanks!
 
_eternal

_eternal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
187
Location
Toronto, Canada
Ballin said:
Hey guys, I played some friendlies with the best players in my state last weekend and recorded some.
Sorry in advance for quality, but it's actually pretty good for Cam.

I feel like I'm at the point where I can see a lot of my mistakes.
Up until a month or two ago, I'd just get ***** and wouldn't understand why, but I'm starting to see why I'm getting fvcked up lol.

Marth vs Shiek
http://youtu.be/ftd_ucB-R_g

vs Samus
http://youtu.be/bnMtNt8vtTM
http://youtu.be/3fGvtOtEeSE

vs Fox
http://youtu.be/k_L6Dw777Nc

vs Marth
http://youtu.be/Kvhnzibz3_A
http://youtu.be/hWdy4yPuaCM

I'm kind of a noob, so bare with me. Let me know the major things I can work on. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Didn't watch all of them, but...

- Learn the Demo Kirby SDI against Fox's uthrow uair. It takes some getting used to.
- Dair against grounded opponents is pretty cool but very punishable. Nice combo starter but you might be overusing it. I think nair oos is generally "better" than dair oos? Gets your opponent off your back at least.
- Be careful with fsmashing people's shields too. But I guess that's kind of obvious.
- I haven't tried this, but you might be able to edgehog when you throw Marth off the edge and he DJs back on. I try to do this against Falcon. It's much easier to sweetspot a DJ than an up B so you probably won't get far with dtilts.
 
Ballin

Ballin

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Messages
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Tee ay eye said:
have at it :(

there's another set from loser's bracket that will be uploaded soon

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdcJxMG5XA
Click to expand...
accept my friend request on facebook noob =)

I'm pretty bad (as you can see up in the vids i posted^), so take what I'm about to say with a huge grain of salt.
This is just what I saw in the match.

I noticed you get worked up when something bull**** happens, and then u try to go super aggro to try and make up for it. Your marth is flashy as fvck.
When you have him in the air, you let him get away a lot. I would say you could commit harder and try to space and hit him in the air more cause i don't think any of luigi's air attacks can beat marth's if properly spaced.
On the ground, I thought you threw out moves out of frustration because some bull**** luigi stuff was happening. And in general I would say its not a good idea to challenge luigi's ground mobility with dashdancing and **** like that.
Play super passive and gay until u either up throw or get a tech chase opportunity and then just go IN.
 
t-iceman

t-iceman

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May 18, 2010
Messages
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Tee ay eye said:
have at it :(

there's another set from loser's bracket that will be uploaded soon

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdcJxMG5XA
Click to expand...
You jumped so damn much tai lol, i dont think i saw you down tilt from neutral very much at all, you just always did retreating fair. Against any character you cant make your spacing stagnant/predictable because there are ways for you to be punished for it (esp. from good players). Luigi is almost never going to approach you from the air, thus i would just do down tilt a lot more than you did. Of course fair is still good as it confirms into a follow up better than down tilt but you have to mix it up a lot more
 
Ballin

Ballin

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Messages
122
_eternal said:
Didn't watch all of them, but...

- Learn the Demo Kirby SDI against Fox's uthrow uair. It takes some getting used to.
- Dair against grounded opponents is pretty cool but very punishable. Nice combo starter but you might be overusing it. I think nair oos is generally "better" than dair oos? Gets your opponent off your back at least.
- Be careful with fsmashing people's shields too. But I guess that's kind of obvious.
- I haven't tried this, but you might be able to edgehog when you throw Marth off the edge and he DJs back on. I try to do this against Falcon. It's much easier to sweetspot a DJ than an up B so you probably won't get far with dtilts.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much.
Are there any big-picture things I can focus on?
I feel like i lack the fundamentals of this game.
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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t-iceman said:
You jumped so damn much tai lol, i dont think i saw you down tilt from neutral very much at all, you just always did retreating fair. Against any character you cant make your spacing stagnant/predictable because there are ways for you to be punished for it (esp. from good players). Luigi is almost never going to approach you from the air, thus i would just do down tilt a lot more than you did. Of course fair is still good as it confirms into a follow up better than down tilt but you have to mix it up a lot more
Click to expand...
yeah i was really scared of dtilt cuz i get punished for it sometimes so im afraid of doing it like... ever :(
 
_eternal

_eternal

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Hm... not really sure. I'm new too lol. Marth is mainly about controlling space and pressuring your opponent with positioning (as opposed to spacies' pressuring you by hitting your shield), but I'm still struggling with that too.
 
Toya

Toya

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Tai,

1st Match vs. Falcon - Work on your Tipper spacing when looking for it under platforms, and your approaches against the shield; you got shield-grabbed a few times as a result of getting too close. 2nd game, you were near the ledge with the shield up. He grabbed you for it with the Gentleman. A wavedash out of shield to grab the ledge would have been safe and neat, particularly because the Gentleman is predictable in that spot. 3rd game: pretty decent all around apart from random grabs at air; Fair into Shield Breaker is a neat combo when he is desperate to get near the stage. Apart from that, it seems the video freezes near the end...

2nd Match vs. Peach - I am only presuming you have limited experience with this particular match-up. I do as well, unfortunately, so I can only comment on a few things I noticed. When she is floating high, you stood there. Approach with empty threats (not necessarily even attacking); get them scared so they have no choice but to go for safety, but never allow them far enough to get there, then go for the kill. Apart from that, my limited experience disallows further help.

3rd Match vs. Luigi - This is another match-up I have limited experience with, but I noticed a severe problem you had while playing it on Battlefield. You never used the platforms for baiting, but rather insisted on fighting him on the flat surface below. Because this game is much like a game of Chess, using those platforms to lure them into bad situations is important in match-ups you either don't have experience with, or characters like Luigi that can fly around large, flat spaces with wavedashes. Utilizing the platforms cripples that option unless they decide to just sit there. In which case: taunt. A fool will come to you.

I hope this helps you.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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Messages
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tai first match vs falcon

most it is pretty good. I only want to comment on the recovery on your next to last stock. fake jump to the ledge to fastfall up b is not good for use when the opponent is in the air with potential to fall with bair/grab the ledge. I think that isn't bad for when they are actually on stage considering a wavedash to the ledge sometimes, but for opponents in the air it's a lot more risky

but in the situation you were in, it's better just to leave the fastfall off and focus more on avoiding the situation by actually jumping to try to prevent him from reaching the ledge and fairing if he does go for it

and then falling if he doesn't and then using up b to block later attempts to take the ledge.

with up b you can just reactively hit him as well since he was at high percent..though that doesn't work at low percents..
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Some quick thoughts for Tai:

Against Luigi I think CPing him to either YS or FoD is the way to go (gave it some thought after losing to vudujin at apex) because he can't make use of his full WD length there. On FD, he is actually able to extend his range beyond your own because he has a zone where he's threatening you and you're not threatening him and he took advantage of that a lot. ****ing hate luigi tho, and I think Eddie Mexico is nasty for the record.

Against Falcon only comments are that on some of these edgeguards where he is trying his absolute mightiest to recover high instead of letting him get past you and up airing him into an fsmash just swat him with non tip fair. The real key is to just not let him gain height, and there is one instance in that set where you actually up air tippered him from top platform at high % and he went like nowhere after falcon kick (so ****ing dumb, btw, **** this game).

Other thing to keep in mind is to drop zone fair/DJ dair his DJ sweetspot sometimes. Stealing the ledge is all good but in situations where you don't quite have time to get on the ledge just running off with a fair is pretty good.

Lastly, keep ******.
 
t-iceman

t-iceman

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@Toya rofl going on platforms is not good vs luigi/any character vs marth because his whole goal is to get below you, marth has serious problems approaching people that are below him without putting himself in a bad position. He should have just down tilted a lot more lol
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

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Messages
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i don't think going on platforms to bait is nearly as bad as you make it out to be..but if luigi is as bad at mario and doc at getting in on marth it probably isn't worth the risk. however, getting on a platform when boxed out at the ledge and they are likely to approach is definitely a solid mixup. along with full hopping short hopping in place, short hopping forward, and a host of others...but definitely solid at the edge.
 
C

.Chipmunk.

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knightpraetor said:
i don't think going on platforms to bait is nearly as bad as you make it out to be..but if luigi is as bad at mario and doc at getting in on marth it probably isn't worth the risk. however, getting on a platform when boxed out at the ledge and they are likely to approach is definitely a solid mixup. along with full hopping short hopping in place, short hopping forward, and a host of others...but definitely solid at the edge.
Click to expand...
It's not that difficult for luigi to get in on Marth if Marth becomes predictable. Luigi can WD in with shield, then WD past that laggy move to punish. The problem with being unpredictable is that you have to toss out moves sometimes to do that, but because of his long WD you can be punished just for trying to be unpredictable. I think it's important to stay grounded in the MU though, because a well timed jab or dtilt (depending upon the approach) will eliminate almost all of his approaches and dtilt is easily followed up with grab in the case of a shielded approach.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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What answer does luigi legitimately have to marth's dtilt? Other than coming down from a platform? He can't jump over it with an attack can he? So he has to try and time a ftilt between the hits... sounds really fraudulent

:phone:
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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Sveet said:
What answer does luigi legitimately have to marth's dtilt? Other than coming down from a platform? He can't jump over it with an attack can he? So he has to try and time a ftilt between the hits... sounds really fraudulent

:phone:
Click to expand...
he can slip past it with his down B
 
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