Sometimes I lightshield by accident and it works, but usually I'm shield DI'ing away.
Shield DI *****
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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.
- Thread starter P. O. F.
- Start date
Shield DI *****
Archangel
Smash Hero
Press R/L then lightly tilt your shield away. Peach's dsmash is instantly not a threat.
I just mash to the side LMAO
whatever works
whatever works
Archangel
Smash Hero
LOL. Well as long as you don't get hit it's all good I guess LOL.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Still new to the competitive scene so my advice might not be too hot, but I did notice a few things. I only had time to watch the first match.
You go for counter a little bit too often in the first match, and it gets you punished most of the time you use it. I only use counter as a mix up or when I'm certain its going to work.
It looks like you were having trouble edge guarding Falco. You usually do a decent job standing on the stage, but you could limit his options a lot more if you went out (excluding the last stock, solid shut down). In friendlies I like to take more risks with the edge because Marth's edge game is awesome. Especially against Falco, going out and swatting with a fair usually guarantees a stock.
It seems like every now and then you whiff an aerial close enough to Falco where its pretty unsafe if you miss. And there are and handful of times when you do and you get punished for it. Maybe more falling fairs w/ a DD after to get out of range. Idk, I'm bad.
And hey maybe since I commented on yours I won't get completely ignored like I normally do. /whine
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8PLkeTK_I
Recent vid of me and a friend grinding out Marth v Fox. I'm better than this guy so I tend to slack off sometimes (especially when it comes to recovering lol) /johns
Seriously though, I'm a new (and hope to be up and coming) Marth main and I'd love any advice you guys have. Maybe try skipping to the middle the first few matches are loaded w/ suicides.
Beat!
Smash Master
Your edgeguarding is passive and inefficient at times. As soon as you know Falco has to up-B (like when you hit him out of his DJ/side-B and he doesn't air dodge or side-B again immediately) you should just go off stage and hit him.
A little more WD OOS wouldn't have hurt, but he didn't pressure you all that much and was on the defensive most of the time so it wasn't really necessary in this case.
Also, he had some really ugly rolling habits. You punished some of them, but a little more patience in some situations would've gotten you a lot more free hits/grabs.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I'm not positive, but doing Fthrow -> wavedash -> fsmash near edges usually works extremely well providing your close enough to the edge that the wavedash will edgecancel.
really? word, I'm having a hard time figuring out throw stuff on floaties based on that DI so I'll test it out, thanks! =)
t-iceman
Smash Journeyman
f throw to pivot tipper fsmash works really well on most floaties but its di dependent. if they di up and in you cant get it but on char's such as puff you can get it to work from like 50 to 80 as long as you know the spacing. Great thing about it is that if you mess up the pivot timing all you do is dd back so its worth it to go for it
Archangel
Smash Hero
@Boat and Beat.
thanks I basically get what you guys are saying. My edgegame is very...almost non-existent at times. I find myself just reacting to late and even if there is still time I have a strange habit of not going for things if I don't feel comfortable doing it. I might need to break that then.
@ boat.
you seem to be my exact opposite lol. I am too safe when it comes to edge you are usually right there for the attempts Sometimes they don't benefit you though and you are a bit too risky. 23:11 comes to mind when I say this. I do notice that you space your sword almost too well. Alot of attacks are so far from fox it has no chance of hitting him but he usually has no chance of getting to you either. Still I am not sure if this fox is really technical enough to give you a fair challenge so you might as well go all out and see what you can do. Holding back because you are better than the person you are playing keeps you from growing.
thanks I basically get what you guys are saying. My edgegame is very...almost non-existent at times. I find myself just reacting to late and even if there is still time I have a strange habit of not going for things if I don't feel comfortable doing it. I might need to break that then.
@ boat.
you seem to be my exact opposite lol. I am too safe when it comes to edge you are usually right there for the attempts Sometimes they don't benefit you though and you are a bit too risky. 23:11 comes to mind when I say this. I do notice that you space your sword almost too well. Alot of attacks are so far from fox it has no chance of hitting him but he usually has no chance of getting to you either. Still I am not sure if this fox is really technical enough to give you a fair challenge so you might as well go all out and see what you can do. Holding back because you are better than the person you are playing keeps you from growing.
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pat4gOISpI
I'm new-ish. Tips? First match was kinda rough.
Also, I figured out later in the day that I can edgehog when I expect my opponent to go for a sweetspotted dj instead of jumping right after being thrown off.
I'm new-ish. Tips? First match was kinda rough.
Also, I figured out later in the day that I can edgehog when I expect my opponent to go for a sweetspotted dj instead of jumping right after being thrown off.
Archangel
Smash Hero
First tip don't camp in a friendly
on a serious note~
I like your mindset for this MU. Even though you are new I can see you being one of the few Marth's that like fighting Falcon but there are somethings you should watch out for and try not to do.
I noticed you got for majority of the video you never shielded anything. You seem extremely offensively aware which I think you need to beat Falcon. I like the fact that you try to stand your ground and swat falcon out of the air from time to time. Just be careful with jumping too much when you don't need to. Falcon's gets a hit on you while you are caught using a jump and it could be your life. So please try to ask your self in each situation Can Falcon possibly hit me with something? If he can you should have a response prepared for that situation so you don't take unneeded % for it. Offense is usually the main focus especially when you are starting off but don't neglect defense so much
Also, I notice you attacked his shield a few times. If Falcon shields just grab him
. Try to keep that in mind always. Also try not to be too robotic with your technical stuff and movement. Sometimes you had moments of what I call Start and Stop Movement. Basically that is when you play like this; Move-slight pause-another move-slight pause-another move-slight pause-another move-slight pause...etc. Considering you are new-ish that is understandable though because you are at the point when you must make certain movements like WD or WD OoS SHFFL's....etc into things you do easily without effort or thought. You have the ken combo down I noticed.
I like the way you pull it off it's a real throw back to the glory days of Marth, seriously I love it. I'd just say you need to make everything else you do as smooth as the Ken Combos and you'll be one to watch in the future.
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
Thanks! I'll try to keep your tips in mind, especially the jump thing because I do that way too much (I often get ledgehop double lasered against Falco because of careless jumping). Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "start and stop" movement? Are you talking about pausing mid-combo to decide what to do next or pausing in neutral while dashdancing, etc.?
Archangel
Smash Hero
I was talking about both actually but more of the neutral pausing then anything else. It is about transitioning mostly. As you get more experienced you'll be able to react and make reads on the fly rather then having to stop and look at everything before deciding what to do next. It takes time but it'll happen eventually.
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBH1O3Usbv0
my marth vs shiek/marth from a month or so ago
****ing marth, tips?
my marth vs shiek/marth from a month or so ago
****ing marth, tips?
Archangel
Smash Hero
You did alot wrong, He did more wrong...yet you lost the second match to him(someone you seem significantly better than). Do you know what that is? That is the gayness of Sheik vs Marth that you always here so much
You have the general Idea of swinging your sword to establish dominants part down. You lack the correct spacing and at times the fear needed in the MU. High double fairs or aerials in general for example are a no no no no no!(aside from rare circumstances anyway). Most Sheiks will watch you high jump fair and then swat you out of the sky before you get to even use the second one. Jumping off the stage and then jumping back with a Bair(A.K.A. the smash64 mindgames) Is also a not something you want to get use to doing seeing as how....well you put yourself in kill position purposely. Fsmashing at at Sheik's dsmash or shield will get you know where. You are better off grabbing both.(Yes if spaced right you can grabe Sheik's dsmash). Sometimes you dropped the ball when it came to edgeguards or potential edge guards. Twice I saw you upthrow sheik when she was close to 200% and both time she just calmly came back down. You are better off tossing her off(even if it takes 10 times). Also if the chance presents itself try to dash behind sheik and grab rather than playing the spot dodge game.
as for Marth dittos....it's Marth dittos what can I say. Faster player or sword swinger and overall better Marth usually wins. You did play it a bit rageful and reckless though but sometimes that works. How the hell did that second combo even work btw did he like...DI down or something?
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I like your Marth it looks like you know this MU pretty well so I didn't see much you were doing wrong.
Don't guess vs Sheik. Early on the first match her dash attack was messing ya up.
When Sheik is on ledge get close so she can ledgehop>fair. But just waveland back and Fsmash.
At 2:19 you grab the ledge and Sheik is RIGHT next to the ledge. You could of ledgehop>dair. If you made sure the backside of your dair hit her she would of fell off stage and you could of dair>dair> or even dair>reverse dolphin slash. Or whatever you want really.
I would say to dash cancel>dtilt>dash away more. Or whenever you Dtilt dash away.
3:39 watch out for doing double fairs at Sheik. She can Dtilt and get underneath you. At this time Sheik gets the Dtilt>Grab>Tech chase.
If you are spacing out Sheik with fairs and she roll in, and you're in the middle of your shorthop. You can dair them it works perfectly and you can usually combo off of this. I remember I did it at Apex and Ken comboed off of it and freaked out lol.
8:38 you fair and as a result she gets 2 dtilts off ( I think she CCed one)
That's all I really see. Keep up the good work!
EDIT: as for the Marth ditto....There isn't much to say cause its Marth dittos....But if you notice that the Marth you're playing isn't a complete idiot and actually DI's the Fthrow>Fsmash just Uthrow>Utilt them instead.
Beat!
Smash Master
You seem to feel very uncomfortable staying grounded against Sheik. Unfortunately, walling with Fair won't cut it (no pun intended) if you do it too often and for too long. There's too much room for punishment as soon as the Sheik player catches on. You need to explore your ground options more. DD, grab, Dtilt, WD, etc. Save the aerials for when you know/think she'll be in the air.
I may rewatch it later and see if I can come up with more.
Archangel
Smash Hero
I love how the start of your Marth dittos critique is pretty much mine.
****ing marth dittos or ****tos as I call them.
****ing marth dittos or ****tos as I call them.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I messed around a ton with pivot smashes the last time I got to play. Some of the things I came up with:
1. fthrow -> pivot fsmash against Peach doesn't really seem to work unless they miss the DI on the throw. I'm hoping to get this tested though.
2. DDing a lot with occasional pivot fsmashes mixed in with wavedash fsmashes during early stocks gave me a lot of free shield grabs due to my opponents respecting the fsmash range if I managed to tipper them once or twice.
3. Doing shffls to pivot fsmashes seem to have AMAZING potential. Either through comboing or baiting approaches/shieldgrabs.
1. fthrow -> pivot fsmash against Peach doesn't really seem to work unless they miss the DI on the throw. I'm hoping to get this tested though.
2. DDing a lot with occasional pivot fsmashes mixed in with wavedash fsmashes during early stocks gave me a lot of free shield grabs due to my opponents respecting the fsmash range if I managed to tipper them once or twice.
3. Doing shffls to pivot fsmashes seem to have AMAZING potential. Either through comboing or baiting approaches/shieldgrabs.
Beat!
Smash Master
Yeah, pivot fsmash *****.
Archangel
Smash Hero
ya know.....I'm going to try some of this out. Thanks.
MaxThunder
PM Support
I think you mean hairThat is the gayness of Sheik vs Marth that you always here so much
...
Archangel
Smash Hero
I was barely awake when I posted that.
MaxThunder
PM Support
me dun caer... me makes crappy crappy jokes...
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
hell yes thanks guys! I can definitely see everything you guys are mentioning. (the bad spacing fairs, over use of my aerial game ) the part about me always being aerial, i dunno why but yeah in this matchup i always feel like im in a bad position if im grounded. i guess i just need to watch the matchup in vids.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I heard being in the air vs Sheik is bad. She can punish you multiple ways for your aerial approaches.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
*Sigh*
I need to get Action Replay. There are so many fundamental questions that come up that I want to test.
Anyone know how/where to get it? Is there an official AR thread or something?
Grape Ape
Smash Apprentice
Yea, You generally want to stay grounded vs. Sheik. it gives you more defensive options (if you're in the air you can really only attack) and lets you wait for Sheik to come to you-which she can't do. Marth has the advantage playing defensively and allowing Sheik to approach, because she has such a hard time approaching him.
You shouldn't let her get you cornered, like you did after your first KO. try to keep in the middle of the stage so you have space for....spacing.
When you did jump for double fairs, you double jumped a LOT. using your Dj so much is a bad idea-if you're hit off you'll have a hard time recovering. As others have said, your Fairs are somewhat excessive anyway.
Not sure what else to say. Massive respect for letting them re-transform at the beginning, in loser's semis, though.
You shouldn't let her get you cornered, like you did after your first KO. try to keep in the middle of the stage so you have space for....spacing.
When you did jump for double fairs, you double jumped a LOT. using your Dj so much is a bad idea-if you're hit off you'll have a hard time recovering. As others have said, your Fairs are somewhat excessive anyway.
Not sure what else to say. Massive respect for letting them re-transform at the beginning, in loser's semis, though.
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
yeah, me and him both are pretty unaware of the proper way to do a marth ditto. hence me being here ;D
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
QWA
Smash Apprentice
Please don't make fun of my n00bness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqyfxi6BdaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqyfxi6BdaU
_eternal
Smash Apprentice
I'll leave the detailed comments to the pros but in general you want to fsmash less. It's a laggy move and most human players will shield it and punish if it's not part of a combo. Also you go for shield breaker a lot when fair is usually a better option. Shield breaker gets people out of your face but it doesn't lead to anything (and is virtually punishable on hit?) at low percents.
If you can't practice with people you should work on technical stuff like wavedashing and shffling. Those are things you have to learn on your own no matter where you live.
If you can't practice with people you should work on technical stuff like wavedashing and shffling. Those are things you have to learn on your own no matter where you live.
QWA
Smash Apprentice
Thank you very much kind sir or madam!
Fortress | Sveet
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I would find some real people to play against ASAP and unlearn everything you've learned playing against lvl 9 computers (i can tell you play against them a lot).
Beat!
Smash Master
Yeah, you should start working on fundamentals instead of trying to beat the CPU. Playing against lvl 9s doesn't help at all because they just walk towards you all the time. Play against lvl 1s and practice movement/tech skill instead (l-cancel, wavedashing, dashdancing, SHFFL, etc), and, as Sveet said, find people to play against as soon as possible.
Mahie
Smash Lord
- Don't play with level 9s. Either 4 or 7, or just 1, I guess. 9s have stupid DI, powershielding, and will overall leave you with bad habits. 4s/7s have DIs similar to Humans, and move a little, which makes it a little bit more interesting than 1s.
- Practice your advanced techniques. Watch Wak's Advanced guide and learn EVERYTHING there is in those. It's 3 parts, make sure you don't miss one.
- Look up your area for players. Marth can't be learned on one's own, imo, a huge part of his game is to be able to read the flow of the game to then control it. That comes with experience.
Fortress | Sveet
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When playing against computers, you shouldn't be fighting them; instead just use them for target practice. I suggest starting with lvl1 since they don't interrupt you as much. 4 and 7 are good at later stages since they have different (better?) DI