TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
lol ya my edgeguarding is abysmal. There are like 4 or 5 of those in that set.
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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.
- Thread starter P. O. F.
- Start date
The best tip I can give you, the tip that helped me kill Falcos. GO GET HIM.
You see fire, you blow it out.
The Falco is passive. You don't need to worry about aggressive edgeguards, you spent two stocks learning that, so it's worth taking extra damage being wrong than losing your stock trying to counter an edgeguard he hasn't demonstrated yet.
You're using the old school edgeguard. It works on him, but it's less reliable. You should do the M2K 50/50s and chase him off with forward airs from your down throw. He's giving them to you. Read the DI. He's DIng away from you so you know he wants to go long and safe. When he's DIing into you, he either wants to rise with aerial, shine stall and grab edge from his double jump, or he wants to jump and air dodge. You can cover all of those options by just turning and watching. If he goes long and goes for forward B to ledge or through you, learn the jab/neutral B timing, and if it connects, just follow them off.
There is no escape unless they smash DI and airdodge onto stage, then you just double jump back and neutral air/grab and throw them off again. You can cover pretty much every option by reaction, it's wonderful.
Down tilt/jab the shine stall, neutral air/grab the air dodge, or WD back forward smash the aerial. If you've tested his reactions, then you can run off when he DIs close to you and bait the aerial with your counter. It's not too risky if you miss, because you float and keep your forward B and jump.
Becareful when you get good at gimping Falco. No one in AZ wants to play Falco against me anymore.
I love Falco. (When he's off stage and dying)
Niko45
Smash Master
Yo Taj, throw me a critique next time around! :D Hopefully I can get some bird vids cause I really struggle vs him imo.
Winston
Smash Master
Okay crimson I'll give it a try
-So the match starts and you do a nair into his shield that isn't spaced or fastfalled. I'll assume its a technical error, but even allowing that, I don't think the intent behind it was good. It looks like it would only have beaten a direct approach from him, but you can cover an immediate direct approach from him without committing like that with approaching nair
-at 0:05 after he misses the shine and you miss the grab, he does a full jump backwards to get out. Whether it was intentional or not from him, you should react to that kind of thing. I'd like to see a sh uair or something there cutting off his most obvious escape path without really committing you very hard.
-0:06 you do a wavedash while chasing him and I can't really see why it would be beneficial. I really, really think you should cut the excess wavedashes from your ground movement.
-that nair that hits him should have led to a grab but I'll chalk that up to you missing the fastfall again
-0:11 when you grab him, I would have uthrown asap to try and get some regrabs going, but dthrow is a defensible choice too. You have to move faster out of the dthrow though so you can be standing next time him when it's time to react to the tech. In that case perhaps it'd be best to walk instead of dash since he didn't DI away from you.
-0:17 when you hit him with the rising fair into the falling fair that knocks him the other way, you just dashed away from him, resetting a situation where you should at least be pressuring him, and at best you could have gotten a grab off it if you reacted fast enough.
-0:22 you successfully baited the bair oos by dashing away, but you do an extra, short dashdance iteration which you don't have time for and give up the grab. Just use the length of Marth's dash and dash away while watching to see if he'll do the punishable response that you're trying to bait. You should be able to cover both spotdodge and bair oos from that position on reaction.
-0:29 like dart said, why didn't he die? react to spacies falling below stage height and then kill them. I'm sure you know all the ways.
-0:46 after you respawn you do an additional small dd in place that doesn't accomplish anything. In this case it used up your invincibility, but even besides that, you gave up the opportunity to close space on falco and corner him during a rare moment that he wasn't lasering. Then immediately after that he dairs you when you decide to wavedash towards him, another example of why movement that commits you (wavedashing) is worse than normal dashdancing unless you need the wavedash for a specific reason (i.e. fsmashing).
-1:17 again overly passive during an advantaged situation (i.e. you're invincible)
-1:22 crucial to do that rising uair with your double jump so that you actually land on the top platform, allowing you to finish the combo.
-1:38 I like this. You made it look like you were going to wd off the platform and fair, which you had been getting him with previously, and successfully bait his approach. Just gotta convert that hit into a combo opportunity next time.
-1:46 your opponent has already rolled away before your rising sh fair finished, but you do the falling uair anyway. Don't be too committed to your plan that you can't readjust it to what's actualy happening. In that case a jump back onto the platform, or a waveland back, would have been fine I think.
-1:49 after you missed the dair and he jumped back, I really like sh charged neutral B in that situation, since it'll beat any illusion unless they shorten. In any case, given that you decided to walk back and he illusioned right in front of you, you should have gone for grab instead of hilt fsmash that doesn't send him far enough at that percent. Then after that, you retreat even further into the stage, which only covers one option. He does a really bad recovery but you retreating into the stage to set up for fsmash allows him to get back.
-2:24 again the retreat from an edgeguard situation. If you were trying to guard against illusion onstage (which it looks like you are), there are better ways. If you were trying to beat an instant jump back dair, you could have done so with something like a short hop backwards or even just moving slightly inwards while still being within sword range of the edge. In any case, in that spot I tend to favor more aggressive edgeguarding lines unless I've picked up that they're overly aggressive with jump back dair in that situation. The way you positioned yourself, you couldn't have covered the downward angle firebird to the edge.
-2:39 used your side B wayyy too early. Once you see that he's grabbing the edge instead of lightshield edgehogging, drift bit farther back from the edge (so he can't ledgehop bair you), then use the side B that you've saved once you are below the stage to see if he'll roll preemptively or do something that misses. If you want to airdodge do it higher and not in the range that is the easiest for him to cover.
-2:49 backthrow? was that an accident? perfect time for the dtilt trap 2 iterations into uthrow stuff.
-3:09 I think you could have curled back onstage around when you did your second side B but im not positive. In any case at that percent I feel like it's worth just taking a hit from landing lag because it's more likely you won't outright die that way.
So if I had to look past all the nitpicky details and summarize, it seems to be mainly
1). Your focus on excess movement seems to detract from your ability to react to the situation properly and pick the right option. Sometimes, the excess movement that you seem to do as a habit directly takes away from your options/positional advantage. Don't dashdance without a purpose in mind.
2). Just execution stuff. Not messing up combos/techchasing. Especially techchasing. Seriously, you need to get way, WAY better at techchasing.
3). Overhaul your edgeguarding game. Experiment with all of the options, especially the aggressive ones with the highest reward against the opponent's "safe" options, as well as the lowest commitment ones that let you cover the most options. For the most part, moving away from the edge and fsmashing doesn't fit either description.
edit: I see Taj already covered the edgeguarding stuff. yay
OK that took a super long time. Sorry if I was overly harsh, and I know you've heard these things from me before, but these are my honest thoughts on some of your biggest issues, and there were some specific examples of them in that game.
Might do the other game later, or do someone else's match if they want me to
-So the match starts and you do a nair into his shield that isn't spaced or fastfalled. I'll assume its a technical error, but even allowing that, I don't think the intent behind it was good. It looks like it would only have beaten a direct approach from him, but you can cover an immediate direct approach from him without committing like that with approaching nair
-at 0:05 after he misses the shine and you miss the grab, he does a full jump backwards to get out. Whether it was intentional or not from him, you should react to that kind of thing. I'd like to see a sh uair or something there cutting off his most obvious escape path without really committing you very hard.
-0:06 you do a wavedash while chasing him and I can't really see why it would be beneficial. I really, really think you should cut the excess wavedashes from your ground movement.
-that nair that hits him should have led to a grab but I'll chalk that up to you missing the fastfall again
-0:11 when you grab him, I would have uthrown asap to try and get some regrabs going, but dthrow is a defensible choice too. You have to move faster out of the dthrow though so you can be standing next time him when it's time to react to the tech. In that case perhaps it'd be best to walk instead of dash since he didn't DI away from you.
-0:17 when you hit him with the rising fair into the falling fair that knocks him the other way, you just dashed away from him, resetting a situation where you should at least be pressuring him, and at best you could have gotten a grab off it if you reacted fast enough.
-0:22 you successfully baited the bair oos by dashing away, but you do an extra, short dashdance iteration which you don't have time for and give up the grab. Just use the length of Marth's dash and dash away while watching to see if he'll do the punishable response that you're trying to bait. You should be able to cover both spotdodge and bair oos from that position on reaction.
-0:29 like dart said, why didn't he die? react to spacies falling below stage height and then kill them. I'm sure you know all the ways.
-0:46 after you respawn you do an additional small dd in place that doesn't accomplish anything. In this case it used up your invincibility, but even besides that, you gave up the opportunity to close space on falco and corner him during a rare moment that he wasn't lasering. Then immediately after that he dairs you when you decide to wavedash towards him, another example of why movement that commits you (wavedashing) is worse than normal dashdancing unless you need the wavedash for a specific reason (i.e. fsmashing).
-1:17 again overly passive during an advantaged situation (i.e. you're invincible)
-1:22 crucial to do that rising uair with your double jump so that you actually land on the top platform, allowing you to finish the combo.
-1:38 I like this. You made it look like you were going to wd off the platform and fair, which you had been getting him with previously, and successfully bait his approach. Just gotta convert that hit into a combo opportunity next time.
-1:46 your opponent has already rolled away before your rising sh fair finished, but you do the falling uair anyway. Don't be too committed to your plan that you can't readjust it to what's actualy happening. In that case a jump back onto the platform, or a waveland back, would have been fine I think.
-1:49 after you missed the dair and he jumped back, I really like sh charged neutral B in that situation, since it'll beat any illusion unless they shorten. In any case, given that you decided to walk back and he illusioned right in front of you, you should have gone for grab instead of hilt fsmash that doesn't send him far enough at that percent. Then after that, you retreat even further into the stage, which only covers one option. He does a really bad recovery but you retreating into the stage to set up for fsmash allows him to get back.
-2:24 again the retreat from an edgeguard situation. If you were trying to guard against illusion onstage (which it looks like you are), there are better ways. If you were trying to beat an instant jump back dair, you could have done so with something like a short hop backwards or even just moving slightly inwards while still being within sword range of the edge. In any case, in that spot I tend to favor more aggressive edgeguarding lines unless I've picked up that they're overly aggressive with jump back dair in that situation. The way you positioned yourself, you couldn't have covered the downward angle firebird to the edge.
-2:39 used your side B wayyy too early. Once you see that he's grabbing the edge instead of lightshield edgehogging, drift bit farther back from the edge (so he can't ledgehop bair you), then use the side B that you've saved once you are below the stage to see if he'll roll preemptively or do something that misses. If you want to airdodge do it higher and not in the range that is the easiest for him to cover.
-2:49 backthrow? was that an accident? perfect time for the dtilt trap 2 iterations into uthrow stuff.
-3:09 I think you could have curled back onstage around when you did your second side B but im not positive. In any case at that percent I feel like it's worth just taking a hit from landing lag because it's more likely you won't outright die that way.
So if I had to look past all the nitpicky details and summarize, it seems to be mainly
1). Your focus on excess movement seems to detract from your ability to react to the situation properly and pick the right option. Sometimes, the excess movement that you seem to do as a habit directly takes away from your options/positional advantage. Don't dashdance without a purpose in mind.
2). Just execution stuff. Not messing up combos/techchasing. Especially techchasing. Seriously, you need to get way, WAY better at techchasing.
3). Overhaul your edgeguarding game. Experiment with all of the options, especially the aggressive ones with the highest reward against the opponent's "safe" options, as well as the lowest commitment ones that let you cover the most options. For the most part, moving away from the edge and fsmashing doesn't fit either description.
edit: I see Taj already covered the edgeguarding stuff. yay
OK that took a super long time. Sorry if I was overly harsh, and I know you've heard these things from me before, but these are my honest thoughts on some of your biggest issues, and there were some specific examples of them in that game.
Might do the other game later, or do someone else's match if they want me to
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
But...but....I wanted to critique D:
Winston
Smash Master
You can critique Chipmunk's vids if you want, nobody's done those yet xD
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Great posts guys. Really helped.
-I suppose I do those WDes away from the ledge because I am so scared of illusion and dair. I need to be more comfortable with my jab/shieldbreaker timings for illusion and my counter for dair. My edgeguarding is really ineffective and frankly I would have won the set if I got kills off even half of the edgeguards.
-I dunno why I was WDing toward my opponent in some situations (like Winston pointed out). It just gives me lag. My movement needs to be cleaned up. The trouble is that whenever I try to play slower (like match 2) I get wrecked. I think I need more experience with a DD-based, low-WD style.
-I hadn't noticed that I was being passive in some advantageous situations. Thanks for that Winston. I think that is why campy players tend to do well against me; I get myself in a good spot, but then I don't maintain control; I just retreat and reset the situation inexplicably.
-Tons and tons of execution mistakes. I try to play a style that my tech skill doesn't seem to be capable of. I need to go back to the lab and practice. I'm def. going to be using handicap DK and autocancel fastfalling my nairs on him all day haha
If I see a fire, I blow it out
If I see an illusion, I swat it out
If I see his feet, I block it out
Words to live by. Gimps gimps gimps.
You guys are awesome. <3
-I suppose I do those WDes away from the ledge because I am so scared of illusion and dair. I need to be more comfortable with my jab/shieldbreaker timings for illusion and my counter for dair. My edgeguarding is really ineffective and frankly I would have won the set if I got kills off even half of the edgeguards.
-I dunno why I was WDing toward my opponent in some situations (like Winston pointed out). It just gives me lag. My movement needs to be cleaned up. The trouble is that whenever I try to play slower (like match 2) I get wrecked. I think I need more experience with a DD-based, low-WD style.
-I hadn't noticed that I was being passive in some advantageous situations. Thanks for that Winston. I think that is why campy players tend to do well against me; I get myself in a good spot, but then I don't maintain control; I just retreat and reset the situation inexplicably.
-Tons and tons of execution mistakes. I try to play a style that my tech skill doesn't seem to be capable of. I need to go back to the lab and practice. I'm def. going to be using handicap DK and autocancel fastfalling my nairs on him all day haha
If I see a fire, I blow it out
If I see an illusion, I swat it out
If I see his feet, I block it out
Words to live by. Gimps gimps gimps.
You guys are awesome. <3
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think working on your spacing would help you not only edgeguard more, but establish better control on the stage. In the first 40 seconds there were numerous cases of poor spacing, like fairing with the hilt of your sword a couple times, or dash grabbing passed someone, or not edgeguarding properly etc. You don't have to play super fast to beat a falco, when the pressure is on him it is easy to keep him shaken.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Vs Falco my philosophy is that you have to be aggro as ****, you can't wait for him.
Palpi
Smash Hero
It has to be intelligent aggro, if he is just throwing dair's out, you can easily DD bait it into a grab, but if he is laser camping you, you have to play more aggro and utilize powershielding. Chops talked about letting a laser hit you, then advancing on the falco in a video vs Mew2king. Dash attack is also a good move to potentially start a combo, get passed his spam and what not.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I love that video, it should have much more views.
Niko45
Smash Master
Is that the "play to learn" video? If it is, that's one of my favorite smash vids. Chops >>>>
Palpi
Smash Hero
Yeah, I am pretty sure it is.
I wish chops would stop playing so sloppily, he could be a top player. Is he really "quitting?"
I wish chops would stop playing so sloppily, he could be a top player. Is he really "quitting?"
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
Hi guys!! I are back!
Feel like my Marth has come a long way, but here's a video against a good fox, one of the matchups I need to understand better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwbEbJAR8ns&feature=channel_video_title
Critique? Especially against 1:29, 1:54, and 3:52?
Feel like my Marth has come a long way, but here's a video against a good fox, one of the matchups I need to understand better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwbEbJAR8ns&feature=channel_video_title
Critique? Especially against 1:29, 1:54, and 3:52?
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Yooo Ace, Mintychip is my best friend. Anyway.
You really need to DI them Uairs. Niko told me to move your controller stick from 6 to 12. It works wonders.
You also could of countered fox's firefox a bunch of times.
Uuaa has a nice dash dance, was hurting you bad.
You also kept SBing at bad times, and when you went to use it there wasn't any spacing.
Work on movement and reaction speed.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
lolol, you told me.
I haven't seen the winter park crew if forevahh
Man, I use to use counters all the time against up-b. I def see some where I should have. I was predicting a second side-B and started charging another counter and just continued to charge it when I saw the up-b, but stupid yoshi's incline helped him hit my feet first. If I wasn't charging I definitely would have countered there. For the most part I don't like countering unless I'm 100% sure he has to up-B my direction. Same reason I don't like countering against ledgehop lasers against Falco.
Side-b offensively or recover-ly? I see most of my offensive side-b's worked, except for 4:44. I messed up the dash before the pivot side-b as you can see with the run to the left. And 5:02 I messed up the SH bair and tried turning my accidental dash into a side-b edgeguared! ><
I actually read that upair DI in the Marth faq's today when I posted that video! I need a specialty lessons training with my sister to get it downn...
Definitely need to learn that!
I haven't seen the winter park crew if forevahh
Man, I use to use counters all the time against up-b. I def see some where I should have. I was predicting a second side-B and started charging another counter and just continued to charge it when I saw the up-b, but stupid yoshi's incline helped him hit my feet first. If I wasn't charging I definitely would have countered there. For the most part I don't like countering unless I'm 100% sure he has to up-B my direction. Same reason I don't like countering against ledgehop lasers against Falco.
Side-b offensively or recover-ly? I see most of my offensive side-b's worked, except for 4:44. I messed up the dash before the pivot side-b as you can see with the run to the left. And 5:02 I messed up the SH bair and tried turning my accidental dash into a side-b edgeguared! ><
I actually read that upair DI in the Marth faq's today when I posted that video! I need a specialty lessons training with my sister to get it downn...
Definitely need to learn that!
mers
Smash Ace
I see you've learned most hidden silly combo Marth has: usmash to fsmash. When you do it at the right percentages, it either puts them on the perfect place on the ground or they jump right into the hit.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I actually played Cactuar in a Marth ditto (in tournament) and Usmashed>tipped Fsmashed.
****?
@Ace. Yeah Winter Haven hasn't been playin that much mintychip is goin to Texas til October.
Winston
Smash Master
1:29 - I don't think using your side B first like that helps you at all and it just takes away an option. I would have jumped back first, but far enough down and away so he couldn't shinespike you without having a really good read. Don't let him shinespike you for free by jumping back if he's already grabbing the edge. From there it's just a matter of reading what he's going to do, if he chooses bad options like rolling. Use your side Bs when you are super low and it looks like you have to up B, to bait his roll. Essentially, low recoveries with Marth are about 1). not getting too close so that they can attack you with ledge invincibility, and 2). preserving as many options as possible (double jump, side Bs, etc.) while getting in range of a sweetspot up B, to make them feel uncomfortable and roll from the edge.
If you're at really low percent sometimes its better to just say screw it and curl back onstage and take whatever hit they get, rather than risking dying. Especially if it's fox. Not the case there of course, though.
If he refreshes invincibility really well there's not much you can do.
so, game 1:
0:19 - you start the match by dashdancing too far away from him (i.e. farther than needed to dd grab a sh nair approach on reaction), and then you dash attack from that position while he's also doing the same. Unless you thought you had a read that he was going to change his dashdance at that very moment, it seems like it was just simply misspaced. Get closer to him and use your DD in a way so you can fight him in the dd back/dd forward dtilt rps. In addition, a dash attack at 0 doesn't even knock him down, so it's better to try to poke him with dtilts/catch him off guard with a fsmash if you want to do something offensive at 0.
0:23 - cheesy dthrow tipper attempt... on FD =( be confident in your chaingrab game! Even if not on FD there are consistent punishes you can go for instead. I especially don't like doing the dthrow at that spacing, where he could slide off to escape, which he did.
0:28 - free grab, not sure why you ftilted. I'm guessing it's because you already planned on ftilting and didn't react in time.
0:29 - sh tipper uair there instead of full jump uair. Maybe a technical mistake? sh uair combos fox so amazingly well.
0:37 - upon landing you dashdance in place for second as he's on the other side of the stage lasering you. Seems like you did that out of habit, but you really want to be closing in on him there and engaging in a spot where you have more of the stage to fall back on.
0:38 - that ftilt after landing from the sh looks like it was meant to stuff a sh nair approach? But at that distance you didnt have to predict it; you could have just reacted to one by DD grabbing it. Then you wouldn't have gotten hit by that FH nair.
0:41 - was the recovery an accident? from his position onstage there was no way he could have edgeguarded you if you sweetspotted well.
0:51 - I don't like using laggy moves when there are less laggy substitutes unless you have a particularly good read. If you wanted to poke him there you could have dtilted; if you wanted to cover the air you could have sh uaired, and then that fsmash was clearly too late. After he was committed to double jumping I think you could have played a little more reactionary and followed under him threatening sh uair/dd grabbing his landing and it would more likely have gotten you a hit.
1:02 - again, a wavedash back while he's way too far away for it to be a bait, and moreover he's lasering you in place from across the stage.
1:04 - You have to sometimes grab in place/pivot grab/somehow punish the "run straight at you" from fox, to keep him honest, because fox runs faster than you so it beats the dashdance back if that's all you do. I don't blame you for missing this one as this isn't particularly easy, but it seemed like a good place to bring it up.
1:07 - misspaced dash attack, dtilt is your friend, etc. It seems like you're spacing your dash attack against a spot a little bit in front of the closest point of his dashdance, as opposed to the far point of his dashdance (which is usually what dash attack is good for; overshooting).
2:16 - is that roll by accident? it's the second time you did something like that (backwards roll towards him) and it seems really bad
2:18 - another misspaced dtilt. Almost all the approaching dash attacks/dtilts have been undershot. It seems as if you're afraid of him attacking you as you run up to him, but that's why you should be dashdancing closer in the first place, so it isn't telegraphed.
2:19 - pretty good spacing on that nair, but to pull that off you need to fastfall AC it really well. Sorry if I'm nitpicking a lot of technical errors if you know about them already.
2:13 - that fair while jumping was super risky, because if he had lightshielded properly it would have knocked him onto the edge and he would have shined you. When you saw that he was rolling towards the edge to lightshield, you should have just jumped back and gotten the edge.
2:34 - again I'm not a big fan of that dthrow fsmash but I guess I can understand the desire to gamble in that situation >__>. Still
2:44 - laggy ground move at 0... even if it hits he has frame advantage >__> He doesn't even need to CC it
Niko45
Smash Master
I don't think chops has really cared for a long time. He moved to Brooklyn so now he's really out of the mix (most of the scene in NY is bronx/westchester). Apparently he was at a smashfest a couple weeks ago tho, but I heard he wasn't doing too hot.
Who knows, everyone quits and comes back at some point. As far as sloppy play, idk. Honestly before he quit I certainly thought he was pretty good.
I think people mistake somebody's playstyle for just being bad or sandbagging or sloppy a lot.
Max?
Smash Champion
This. I played him two weeks ago and yeah... he's looking pretty free. But then again, maybe I'm just good at this game?
....
Nah
Niko45
Smash Master
Maybe.
....
MAYBE
....
Nah.
....
I'M JUST KIDDIN YOU ****IN ***** THAT ***** AND I DONT GIVE A GOD DAMN
....
MAYBE
....
Nah.
....
I'M JUST KIDDIN YOU ****IN ***** THAT ***** AND I DONT GIVE A GOD DAMN
Max?
Smash Champion
I could beat Jman and people would still say I'm bad.
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
That's cause Jman is bad
Dre the Ace
Smash Ace
Hey guys, here are some recent tournament vids of me vs. a Falco and Fox. Any critique is welcome.
vs. Falco (only second half of the set was recorded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvCuT2LU-kQ
vs. Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yvPnWEVTE
vs. Falco (only second half of the set was recorded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvCuT2LU-kQ
vs. Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yvPnWEVTE
Archangel
Smash Hero
You played like you were afraid of playing against a good fox. He could smell fear on ya boy. He disrespected you a few times because he knew you didn't feel like you were on his level...thats the biggest mistake you made to me. I can tell you some things but i'm not that great and you already know alot of them. Like Countering Firefoxes or DI'ing a few things but all in all I'd say you need to work on your confidence and technical control when under pressure. Everything else will show up
.Vs both I'd say mix up your edgeguards/recoveries. You seem to have Various habits that can be read by better players easily. For example going for Fair when being edgeguarded it's a good choice if u get lucky but it's the safest route at higher levels. I'd say work on or learn to do something out of shield aside from standing grab. It works less and less as you play better players especially if you do only shield grabbing. Because you seemingly can't escape pressure Scotu was able to simply attack at your shield until you wilted under the pressure. Try working on WD OOS attacks or WDOOS-DD grab. It changes things trust me. Aside from that I'd say work on juggling to kill setups vs Spacies a bit more. A few times you'd get them in a good position in the air and you would miss an aerial or do a Bair after Uthrowing them or something weird. Perhaps it was actually a mistake do to nerves but if not I'd say work on that as well. Aside from that just keep advancing.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
1st video:
2:00 You grab him and uthrow, you should of just Dthrew him off stage for a potential edgeguard. Always put your opponent in the worst position. Potential edgeguard>potential damage.
2:13 you Uthrow him, you could of re-grabbed him but didn't. Little things like that change the entire match. If you grab a spacie you should at least get them to 40 dmg before they get away.
Overall 1st match: You should have been trying to grab more. His lasers were messing you up at some points. Dash attack works wonders if you notice the falco is doing high lasers(which he was)
2nd match:
0:23-0:30 YES THATS THE MARTH STUFF I WANNA SEE!
4:36 U dthrow him off stage and he jumps and get the ledge. If you Dthrew>Dtilted towards the ledge I think you might of got em.
Sorry I didn't critique much on this video. I didn't find any specific examples of what you were messing up.
2nd match overall: If you notice the Fox has been approaching you, let him, dash dance all day. You need to work on your dash dance game. Fox's Uthrow>Uair hurts a LOT! I actually just learned how to DI it (Thanks to Niko) right as fox jumps at you move your controller stick from 6 to 12. It reallllly works. Your spacing def needs work that Fox was in you all day. When playing Fox he is gonna dash dance you all day until you do something. So don't throw out anything, I know he looks tasty. If you are gonna approach fox and he is dash dancing. Try and hit JUST behind where he currently is. If you remember that your Dtilts and Dash attacks should line up.
Hope I helped <3
Archangel
Smash Hero
Well since I critique alot but rarely get recorded/play on recording setups....I figured I'd put up some matches i played a few weeks ago just for people to poke fun at. Disclaimer though some times if u see something silly done just know that I was Cactuar'ing it so hard in alot of these lol. <3 Cactuar and his random stuff you shouldn't be doing but do it anyway antics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLKDYST58HM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLKDYST58HM
Dre the Ace
Smash Ace
Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll be sure to implement them into my game.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
Very helpful, Winston! I seee. It is FD! I should get outta this upthrow to downthrow phase and just chaingrab. Making 'em mess up with the downthrow just appealed to my psychological warfare side.
In the moment I felt like he was going to grab the edge at 0:41. That's highly unlikely if they're just dash dancing, eh?
Against a falcon I always shoot the dtilt/dash attack at the far point of their dash dance, against Fox, I guess I shoot it at the near point of their dash attack to stifle any advances because I'm scared of eating a nair to the face. That nair just comes out too fast if I'm trying to wall a fox out with SH fair. Dtilt has always been the safe thing for me. Too safe.
Take home message: DD closer to them and be more reactive.
Now that I think about it, my style is less reactive and more throwing out moves hoping it covers this option or that.
In the moment I felt like he was going to grab the edge at 0:41. That's highly unlikely if they're just dash dancing, eh?
Against a falcon I always shoot the dtilt/dash attack at the far point of their dash dance, against Fox, I guess I shoot it at the near point of their dash attack to stifle any advances because I'm scared of eating a nair to the face. That nair just comes out too fast if I'm trying to wall a fox out with SH fair. Dtilt has always been the safe thing for me. Too safe.
Take home message: DD closer to them and be more reactive.
Now that I think about it, my style is less reactive and more throwing out moves hoping it covers this option or that.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
you commit to heavily
Archangel
Smash Hero
I get no critique? I guess that means i'm great.
I'm not good vs non-technical spacies
Winston
Smash Master
@Yeah, if you DD at the right spacing though, you have a natural counter to eating a nair to the face, i.e. just grabbing it. Of course they can run farther at you before nairing, or running shine etc., but that puts them at risk to you calling their overshoot (ideally with grab). If they patiently dashdance back you have the ability to threaten them with dtilt/wd forward fsmash/dash attack, the latter two of course being risky but surprisingly effective once your opponent gets too comfortable hovering just outside your dd range. You can mix in AC nair or sh late fair if you need to hold space or cover yourself for a second, but they have to be spaced and executed very well so they can't just punish them on reaction.
Uhh yeah that's the basic idea. I can't claim to be an expert on all the nuances of the DD game but that should be good to get you started.
@ spam_arrows: I didn't really want to touch it because of the pre-johns you were making =\
And like harbinger said, he doesn't main spacies, etc.
Uhh yeah that's the basic idea. I can't claim to be an expert on all the nuances of the DD game but that should be good to get you started.
@ spam_arrows: I didn't really want to touch it because of the pre-johns you were making =\
And like harbinger said, he doesn't main spacies, etc.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
BTW Winstons advice is amazing, just sayin.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think you mean, "I'm not good vs smart players"I get no critique? I guess that means i'm great.
I'm not good vs non-technical spacies
Archangel
Smash Hero
i'm not. I found that year ago when I played PC. I was like just stop being smart you *****!
he doesn't main those characters but playing the game 10+ years has its advantages. Even if your not super technical you can get away with just being foxxy or Falcoy...lol
Winston
Smash Master
Haha, thanks. My advice so far has been basically 2 things, though:
1). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfBuAo_Bfvw
2). combo better
Just the basics.
Lol watching that spacing video again, it's hilarious that Lucien knows the spacing for Fox's sh nair so well and tries to set himself up exactly for it so HMW can demonstrate, but HMW can't do the nair properly >__>
But yeah, if you haven't watched that video, you should, even if it's just a refresher
Niko45
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFilQHdzqpU&feature=feedu
Meh, got bopped. I made it a point to work on tech skill after this tourney cause I just have way too many random wrong attacks. Can't be dsmashing randomly in front of cfalcon... I also realized after watching this that I'm approaching like...75% of the time lol. I could tone that down a little. Mike's really good tho. Was a good set til I kinda fell apart.
I played much better this weekend so hopefully that means the work I'm putting in has been paying off.
Meh, got bopped. I made it a point to work on tech skill after this tourney cause I just have way too many random wrong attacks. Can't be dsmashing randomly in front of cfalcon... I also realized after watching this that I'm approaching like...75% of the time lol. I could tone that down a little. Mike's really good tho. Was a good set til I kinda fell apart.
I played much better this weekend so hopefully that means the work I'm putting in has been paying off.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
ledgehop counter more
Niko45
Smash Master
^yea that would have definitely helped me, especially when he's blatantly full hop/DJing above me.
Idk why but it seems to have gone out of style to try to grab marth coming up from the ledge in general now even tho that's pretty free.
Idk why but it seems to have gone out of style to try to grab marth coming up from the ledge in general now even tho that's pretty free.