Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[Metal Reeper]

Stelzig. Listen to what Chopz says to M2K in this video. It completely changed my playstyle vs Falco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUqJ-IVTihI

 

[Metakill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBCqLwhs7v0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDGg-JRwXaE
i didn't critique the last... 'cause i REALLY sucks at melee... hope someone can help me... and maybe I can help in the next post.

please D; <3

 

[Metal Reeper]

please D; <3

You both have a lot to work on.
You need to work on your movement a lot, always be moving as fast as possible. You hit him, then just stand there.
Utilt can kill Samus.

 

[Niko45]

Vids:

Vs Jman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohO_75Mj07M&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Vs Eggm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2YXN5vlNKE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Vs Chain-Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChiicKco7JI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Vs Ryan-K
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc4aWFTXOHo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Vs Nando
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY8jJed7UBA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[Palpi]

Ryan K did something pretty neat against you. I doubt it was on purpose. He was light shield edge guarding you, so you made your up-b above the ledge to land on the stage, but he wasn't close enough to fall on to the ledge, so he down smashed.

 

[Wenbobular]

I'm pretty sure that was him not knowing that holding down does nothing, holding away is the one that makes you fall onto the ledge ... he misses one when it would've killed Niko and he consistently misses it through the set

I think you need to be a little more comfortable going down / out there when they're recovering with up-b ... there was one part in particular against Chain ace (pretty sure, either him or Ryan K) where you let him back temporarily and dropping down and reverse upb or sideb would've killed him

Also crouch below LHDL -> Dtilt is pretty sweet because the lasers have to be real low to hit you when you crouch

I'll watch them some more later haha

 

[Tee ay eye]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYm-z2R4c3A

was choking a bit this set, but still did some solid things

tell me what i was doing that seemed to be a result of panicking so i know what to try to avoid next time i'm in a high-pressure situation.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Ryan K did something pretty neat against you. I doubt it was on purpose. He was light shield edge guarding you, so you made your up-b above the ledge to land on the stage, but he wasn't close enough to fall on to the ledge, so he down smashed.

Lol I do that all the time. Just don't Shield DI towards the ledge when they touch you. Except I usually shine>bair them.

Niko I saw you beat eggm <3 Im gonna watch all those matches now.
Niko in the vid you fought Nando in: You keep using your double jump when recovering. At 5:44 you do it. I've been watching your vids a lot lately and you always do that. Is there any reason? Cause you have much better recovery options if you save the double jump. (But I'm sure you knew this all already lol.)

 

[Niko45]

Yea you're right. I think it tends to be in situations where I've ****ed up DI horribly and I'm just desperate for some height. Maybe I should still save the jump but I think what I really want is the height to be able to harrass the edge still before I have to up B.

I didn't beat Eggm dude.

 

[MasterShake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYm-z2R4c3A

was choking a bit this set, but still did some solid things

tell me what i was doing that seemed to be a result of panicking so i know what to try to avoid next time i'm in a high-pressure situation.

I think the most important thing is to fight your urges to go for things that aren't guaranteed. I just watched the first match and saw you try and do that dair to end it. I think you knew that it wouldn't connect (or at least realized it right when you tried). At worst, if you don't attempt it you reset the situation.

 

[Niko45]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYm-z2R4c3A

was choking a bit this set, but still did some solid things

tell me what i was doing that seemed to be a result of panicking so i know what to try to avoid next time i'm in a high-pressure situation.

You basically played crazy solid and then started getting hit with side B a lot towards the end which is a ridiculous momentum swing and allows massive comebacks to happen. Same exact **** that happens to me when I'm choking.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Yeah...you took a game off Eggm, I thought you took the set. It was late, please understand lol.

 

[Niko45]

Oh the other thing I should have mentioned about using the jump early is that when you get hit by something powerful randomly (like in the example you showed he just knee'd me outta nowhere) sometimes I'm not fully confident I still have my double jump. If I'm ever not fully confident that I have the DJ I try to use it early rather than later, since you're ****ed if you try to use it late and it's not there.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I always save my jump. If people notice that you use your second jump its so much easier to get hit. + If Marth trades he loses.

Can we talk about Puff for a sec? I've never really played a Puff and have no idea what to expect.

 

[BigD!!!]

yeah sveet, i dunno it worked for me once actually and i won the set but now hes all over my sheik

 

[BeLia]

Well I finally was able to record a match, here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR0qriLMZDQ&feature=channel_video_title

Any advices ? I know that I surely made a lot of mistakes so feel free to point them out.

 

[Dart!]

work on your DI and reaction time.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Well I finally was able to record a match, here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR0qriLMZDQ&feature=channel_video_title

Any advices ? I know that I surely made a lot of mistakes so feel free to point them out.

Don't throw out attacks just to do something, you WILL get punished for it.
Sword dance recover, THEN jump.
Yeah you need work on your reaction time, I saw Falcon hit your shield and you would shield-grab him very late. Most of your throws are good vs Falcon, but I think Uthrow works best.
I think you wait a spilt second to throw off your opponent....but it never works.
Stop Fsmashing the ledge, it works sometimes but Dtilt is better. It also doesn't help that your friend isn't sweetspotting.
6:36 you Fthrow him and Dtilt him off stage, if you Dtilted him again you probably would of had him, but you threw out a laggy Fsmash.
You need to work on your dashdancing a lot. You DD, then he starts to approach, and instead of moving away to lure him and retaliate, you just stop the DD and get hit.
9:02 you should of hit that Dtilt.

I hope I helped. Just mostly work on your movement and find things that work against Falcon, not your friend.

tl;dr Watch Taj.

 

[BeLia]

You actually seem to think that I've played a lot versus him, but it's not the case, this was like one of my first match vs him, so the things I tried were not granted since I didn't know how he would react ( " find things that work against Falcon, not your friend." i'm talking about this).

But thank you that's useful, especially the first point, and about my dashdance game, i will try to work on that a lot.

 

[Palpi]

I would tend to agree with u-throw being the best for falcon.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I would tend to agree with u-throw being the best for falcon.

Yes I believe you get the most frame-advantage from Uthrow my good sir.

 

[Winston]

At low percents with back to the edge dthrow is the best

at like 5% and above but still low percents fthrow is the best if your back is not to the edge (basically when he falls over from it)

then at low-mid to mid percents uthrow is the best

 

[Metal Reeper]

I suck, I just learned that if you Uthrow Falcon and they jump out cause they dont wanna get Utilted....You can fair>uair>etc

 

[Niko45]

Dam, I didn't get much feedback on my vids. Anyone have anymore thoughts for me?

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Dam, I didn't get much feedback on my vids. Anyone have anymore thoughts for me?

Just went back and watched the sets again so I'd have some fresh thoughts for you. I think the biggest thing overall is that your opponents were just getting back to the stage too easily. There were plenty of times where you threw out the wrong move or just didn't toss a move out at all. I admire the creativity and what not, but sometimes you just need to do the simple guaranteed stuff to get the kills.

Also, don't forget what stage your on and plan your kills accordingly. Even on YS with a low ceiling you were using nair very high when you possibly could have killed with an uair.

I'm gonna bring up the edge guarding thing again just to say that, when that gets better you'll be more confident and go for more gimps. Hey, you may not like to gimp, but it works. Especially with Marth vs spacies. I cringe when I see a space animal over 150. And to see it that many times? Ouch.

Your DD WD game is on point, and for the most part I'm loving the use of nair. (More marths should use more nair).

There were times when it seemed like you would get the grab and you would be either surprised you got the grab, or unsure of which throw to use and/or how to follow up. That may, of course, not be the case. From my perspective though, I dunno, it just seemed hesitant.

Oh, right. Don't forget who you are playing either. Different players play their characters different ways, so don't just play the MU but play the player as well. Jman pestered you with uthrow uair every chance he got and your counterpick wasn't a stage to counter that. Keep little things like that in mind and let it influence your decisions and I think you'll do better. Overall, good placing in the tourney though.

Also, I'm still new and all, so may want to get second opinions and what not.

 

[Niko45]

Yo chipmunk, thanks a lot. I appreciate the feedback and I think you're spot on. I also felt like the biggest thing I took away was that my edgeguarding needs to step up. I'll also keep that in mind about playing the player instead of the MU necessarily.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Yo chipmunk, thanks a lot. I appreciate the feedback and I think you're spot on. I also felt like the biggest thing I took away was that my edgeguarding needs to step up. I'll also keep that in mind about playing the player instead of the MU necessarily.

Hey, that makes me feel more confident thanks for saying that. I personally feel that the MU is the starting point and then from there you adapt to the player. For example, you started out playing amazing vs Eggm, and I heard the commentator say that you guys had experience playing together. I could have probably guessed that just from the confidence you projected during your play against him as opposed to Jman (2 foxes with alot of marth experience).

 

[Metal Reeper]

@Niko: I watched you vs Chain Ace, really good.
I noticed you kept getting messed up by them dere lasers, I don't think ya PS'ed one.
Sometimes you should of fair'd OoS and would of caught him, at one point you fair'd OoS but retreated with it and got punished.
Why didn't ya approach with Dtilt? Just don't like it vs Falco?

EDIT: I saw you vs Nando. Everytime you nair'd at him it hit his shield and he ****ed you up for it. I think nair>Dash might have gotten you out of the way. I saw you spotdodge and that didn't work.
It happends at 2:36 (but you missed his shield, and went for a DB after landing)
Happends again at 2:55 you hit the nair, spotdodge, he Nair>Knee's you.
It happends again at 3:14, after the nair you got for a grab, then Nando is all like Uthrow>bair>knee>GAME!
Again at 5:57 yo Nair>spotdoge, and he Nairs agian.

At 7:18 you Fthrow>Dtilt him off stage. You could have ran off>fair'd him. It works really well. Winston told me to do it and now I gimp Falcon's hardcore.
Hope this helped a little. I am definetily taking notes from you :3

 

[Niko45]

Thanks Metal. Yea my fair oos spacing needs work. I hate playing oos vs Falco at all honestly I just like to let lasers hit me but idk, YS annoys me in that matchup.

Wow you're right nair sidestep was getting me *****. I guess the days where I can count on people to try to grab that are over.

I have some new tricks for fthrow dtilt situations that I've tested out on both Nando and Hax now and I'm extremely happy with them. Hopefully you'll see what I mean soon enough.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Hah send me the vids when you do :D
I just played Nando for the first time 2 days ago. WOW. I never played a Falcon at that level. And Hax is better? whoa. Scary.

 

[Winston]

I don't think Falcon can ever punish a properly spaced and fastfalled AC nair on shield. nair -> dd gets you away safely and baits grabs pretty well, though if you dash back too soon you might get hit by nair oos.

I think you can even just do another AC nair asap and that'll beat grab/nair oos, though that could lose to something like wd back oos, not sure. Not very good probably, but I like doing it cause its fun to try to play Fox Marth in friendlies >__> and it does beat them trying to do attacks directly out of shield

 

[Niko45]

Marth nair is really really good imo. It's much better than fair for opening up really big punishes, and being really good at overshooting nairs tends to **** in lots of matchups I feel.

I just have to stop sidestepping afterwards. That was cool and ***** for a while but now sheiks/falcons just nair oos all day.

 

[Palpi]

It is pretty easy for characters, especially fast ones to get under a falling nair, which I see many marths do, so you have to be careful when you use it.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Random falcons raptor boost under my nairs

 

[Niko45]

You are prolly nairing too early/too far away. Unlike fair, you don't want to be challenging other moves with nair. wait for them to lag, then nair past them while they are locked down.

 

[MasterShake]

Don't try to use nair as your main defensive move in that mu. Falcons look for that. They can raptor boost, bair, nair or run up shield grab it.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I know how to use Nair...I was just saying Falcons raptor can get under Marths nair sometimes lol.

Someone post vids. I'm really bored and love critiquing.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I know how to use Nair...I was just saying Falcons raptor can get under Marths nair sometimes lol.

Someone post vids. I'm really bored and love critiquing.

Here's some recent videos, but I've studied the mess out of them and have gotten better since then. It's amazing how well you do with Marth when your focus is keeping the proper spacing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCcsZZFMe3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb3nV6Yt4c4

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Help me too

 

[Dart!]

@0:35 why didn't he die? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KzmF41Jfc&feature=player_detailpage#t=29s