Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)

[Jim Morrison]

Jigglypuffs B-airs are crazy. U-tilt KO at mad early %'s

 

[Dream Land Works]

QSTN: Does the kings B swallow Jiggly's overB roll attack? It swallows sonic like no tomorrow (who I noticed was missing from the matchup list).

If you mean her neutral B Roll Out, then yes, D3 swallows that up pretty easily, a problem though with Jiggs though is that you may be setting her up in a position where she can start WoPing you.

Really though, Jigglypuff is a pretty easy match. While she does have good combo potential in this match, it loses out due to D3's massive priority compared to her small priority. F-tilt and D3's aerials just have too much on her. All you really need for this match is the ability to time your attacks right. One thing you may want to watch out for though are small stages with platforms because it helps Jiggly a lot in this match. Otherwise, I would say 60:40 D3's advantage or even a little more in his advantage.

 

[Gates]

Are you eventually going to go over the infinite matches without the infinites as they are often banned

Hold on, let me check.

It's very unlikely.

 

[Timbers]

Luc boards are discussing Luc vs. DDD here.

>_>


<_<

 

[Gates]

Luc boards are discussing Luc vs. DDD here.

>_>


<_<

1. Well it's about time.
2. I really don't like it when people put their matchup exports in this thread, but on the other hand the mods are pretty trigger happy when it comes to giving infractions about this sort of thing, so I guess I should stop QQing about it.

Well I guess we should move onto the next discussion.
LUCAS DISCUSSION GO!

 

[Irsic]

Just a few things -

Your CG only works until like...40%ish, right? I'm not too sure about that.

Your Waddle Doo's can heal us for about 67%. That's a lot of health. Yes, I know you can just get rid of any Waddle Doo's on stage by throwing more. Where do you keep those *******s, anyway?

You're a fatty. Plain and simple, soon as we get in their with our attacks, we're pretty much bound to do about 40 - 50% damage on you. That is what will happen if you let us hit you with a full blown FHdair.

Although because of your fall speed, it makes it quite a bit harder to do on you, we can utilt juggle fatties for a pretty long time, and when doing it correctly, you can't just bair or nair through us, you have to get away. So I'd recommend just jumping away soon as Lucas starts utilt juggling.

I'm sure I'll think of more things to say later, that is it for now.

 

[CO18]

Just a few things -

Your CG only works until like...40%ish, right? I'm not too sure about that.

Your Waddle Doo's can heal us for about 67%. That's a lot of health. Yes, I know you can just get rid of any Waddle Doo's on stage by throwing more. Where do you keep those *******s, anyway?

You're a fatty. Plain and simple, soon as we get in their with our attacks, we're pretty much bound to do about 40 - 50% damage on you. That is what will happen if you let us hit you with a full blown FHdair.

Although because of your fall speed, it makes it quite a bit harder to do on you, we can utilt juggle fatties for a pretty long time, and when doing it correctly, you can't just bair or nair through us, you have to get away. So I'd recommend just jumping away soon as Lucas starts utilt juggling.

I'm sure I'll think of more things to say later, that is it for now.

Out cg works at any percent...

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Your CG only works until like...40%ish, right?

This ain't the Falco boards... DeDeDe can CG at any percentage. (even at 900% b/c Dthrow doesn't kills)

So Lucas is most likely screwed about the chaingrab.

 

[lil cj]

Im actually surprised Lucas has the advantage in this matchup
B/c DDD is such a good character and Lucas is not as good
DDD out ranges Lucas,has a spammable projectile, and his CG affects Lucas to an extent
But not as bad as most characters
Lucas can stop Waddle Dees/etc. with PK fire before it hits him
Also nair is the move to use in this matchup since DDD is such a big target,Nair combos will be easier to
hit with.
Its hard for Lucas to gimp DDD with PKT and PK Freeze due to DDD's great recovery...but we can still spike you easily with bair and dair....PKT will be used as bait to get DDD to use his up B
And while DDD is plowing down to the stage...Lucas' up smash can hit DDD before he lands on him...so watch out for that at mid high percentages.

The numbers in the Lucas matchup thread says 55-45 in Lucas' favor
I think thats about right

Well thats all I have

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I believe it's possible for Lucas to time PK Fire such that Dedede can't throw Waddle Dees fast enough to break through. This is from ages ago, but I don't see how it could be invalid now, unless my memory's failing me.

An unlikely scenario, but if you end up tossing a Gordo into our fsmash, it'll get reflected. I'm not sure what happens to Dees/Doos.

Already mentioned, but Waddle Doo's laser heals an absurd amount of health if we Magnet it. This is actually due to it being a lot of small hits that don't individually break Magnet's healing cap.

Your ftilt can stop PK Fire in its tracks last I checked.

I may post more later, but that's all I can remember for now.

 

[Jupz]

Battlefield is definatly not good so make sure to ban it, because if u Upb onto the platforms u can get owned by usmash. but the CG is definatly an advantage for DDD. Its also quite easy to gimp a lucas. If the DDD plays smart its imo 55/45 in D3's favor. Although lucas can combo him easily.

 

[ToxiCrow]

gimping lucas isnt as easy as everyone thinks. most people will think its exactly like gimping ness, when its not.
lucas has several recovery options, which include
-Zap jump and wavezap
-magnet pull
-tether
-wave-bounced PKFires
-and finally, PKT2.

my views on this match up- obviously, DDD's chaingrab can hurts lucas but it doesnt cripple him.
like jupz said, lucas can combo DDD easily. his size makes it easy to land every hit of nair, and when it can autocancel into most of lucas ground moves. this includes jabs, utilt, ftilt, fsmash and grabs.

PKFire isnt as great in this matchup because of DDD's Waddledoos/dees/gordos and forward tilt. Also, Gordo's cancel out our PKT if we use it to recover

DDD's size makes it easy to land a bair offstage too. Like Cj said, PKT will be bait for your Up B.

However, D3 hits you like a bus full of fat people. Doesnt his Utilt KO at around 90-100?
he's pretty quick for a big character too. his tilts arent really slow

King Dedede is an amazing character, but i dont think he beats Lucas; and if he does, its not by alot.
i would say the match up is 55-45 in whoever's favor

 

[Gates]

gimping lucas isnt as easy as everyone thinks. most people will think its exactly like gimping ness, when its not.
lucas has several recovery options, which include
-Zap jump and wavezap
-magnet pull
-tether
-wave-bounced PKFires
-and finally, PKT2.

Could you explain the first two please? I'm sure a lot of Dedede mains have no idea what those are.

 

[ToxiCrow]

Could you explain the first two please? I'm sure a lot of Dedede mains have no idea what those are.

of course

Zap jump- if lucas immediatly does a PKFire after a jump, it'll send him up about twice the distance of a double jump. the button input has to happen quickly. some of us set L or R to jump
Wavezap- its when u do a wavebounce combined with zapjump. so not only will you go up really high, but it'll be like u wavebounce your PKFire. This is beneficial because you can immediatly do a magnet pull from this spot.

here's a video. if that isnt clear or if something happens that you dont understand, let us know. someone else can probably explain it better than i
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvuUzJ-eOsw

 

[lil cj]

Could you explain the first two please? I'm sure a lot of Dedede mains have no idea what those are.

Edit: Toxi beat me to it lol

1. Zap jump: is PK fire and Lucas' second at the same time causing him to jump extremely high
You have the press both side b and jump at the exact same time for it to work
Great for vertical recovery
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26ZRc1eCeA

2. Magnet Pull: right after a wave bounce PK fire if you execute Lucas' psi magnet(down b) he will bounce back or forawrd very fast.
Great horizontal recovery
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrcORhFJDoY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8OX07YruUM

3. Wavezap: Its pretty much a mixture of Zap jump and Magnet pull.
Great vertical and horizontal recovery
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He8Ymh5h2VQ

 

[ToxiCrow]

Edit: Toxi beat me to it lol

you're too slow!

(crickets chirping)

 

[Coney]

One thing I've learned against Lucas players:

Try to hit the bolt. When you're off the stage, they'll most likely try to PKT you on your way back. We DDD's have very small jumps both horizontally and vertically, so it's crucial that we not get hit by this attack and risk using an ^B into an usmash.

Play like Ness: always DI up if you can and if that little ******* tries to throw out a bolt, predict where it's going and try to kill it. He can loop it around and trick you, but if you see it coming and swat it out of the air with a fair or uair, you might save yourself a lot of pain.

 

[Zeadro]

One thing I've learned against Lucas players:

Try to hit the bolt. When you're off the stage, they'll most likely try to PKT you on your way back. We DDD's have very small jumps both horizontally and vertically, so it's crucial that we not get hit by this attack and risk using an ^B into an usmash.

Play like Ness: always DI up if you can and if that little ******* tries to throw out a bolt, predict where it's going and try to kill it. He can loop it around and trick you, but if you see it coming and swat it out of the air with a fair or uair, you might save yourself a lot of pain.

Or you could try to inhale him? Never know.

 

[_clinton]

Lucas has an easier time with the King than Ness does...and I still don't see Ness as 6:4 D3...but whatever...

2 frame jab instead of 3...
Nair to jab combos as well...

Lucas' Ftilt comes out on frame 6, has good auto cancel frames IIRC, and has more reach than G&W's Dtilt/Ftilt...in case you wanted a range comparison...it is beat by D3's but that isn't the point...

For example...D3's standing grab has more reach than Ness' Ftilt...but not Lucas'...

I'm just saying...it might be harder to chain grab Lucas overall...

 

[Chuee]

ok he can CG us. We can space with PKF and our jab is faster than anything DDD has.

 

[Irsic]

Regardless of that CG, doesn't change anything else I said.

 

[_clinton]

I think Lucas might have the favor for this by a bit...but whatever

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Camp with PK thunder ftw.

 

[Gates]

lulz.

If we can get past Snake grenade camping we can get past PK Thunder camping lol.

 

[ToxiCrow]

Camp with PK thunder ftw.

um.....no? PKT is so slow; u cant camp anyone good using that. PKFire is by far a better option

 

[_clinton]

Everyone is so serious...

 

[Tero.]

lulz.

If we can get past Snake grenade camping we can get past PK Thunder camping lol.

^ this.

We can space with PKF and our jab is faster than anything DDD has.

that's like saying "D3 is higher in the tier list, 90:10 DDD"

 

[T3h Albino]

most underestimated top tier character ftw

 

[Commander_Beef]

lulz.

If we can get past Snake grenade camping we can get past PK Thunder camping lol.

What's the maneuver of "getting past grenades" gates?

 

[Gates]

What's the maneuver of "getting past grenades" gates?

Waddle Dee on the ground to prevent pure horizontal camping, approach in at a diagonal using multiple jumps and airdodges. Finish with either a landing bair or a dashgrab. It's alright if you get hit by a few as long as you avoid the explosions.

Now get back on topic.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Okay.
Lucas relies on his neutral air, and a diagonal down air to keep King Dedede busy while he's on the ground. So we should expect every Lucas to do those two attacks because they sometimes go through King Dedede's actions.
Lucas will abuse PK Fire when at a distance to space himself, so we must expect that too. I am just pointing out the things a normal Lucas will do in this match-up.

 

[_clinton]

He'll also kill you at around 80% if you screw up and land into his Usmash...it isn't Ness' level of screw up KO power...but it is something...

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Just remembered something else: dair can combo into a dtilt lock and/or fsmash starting at the mid-70's, so watch out for that.

 

[daisho]

He'll also kill you at around 80% if you screw up and land into his Usmash...it isn't Ness' level of screw up KO power...but it is something...

And if lucas lands in DDD's Fsmash he will die at 40%... whats your point.

 

[ToxiCrow]

Okay.
Lucas relies on his neutral air, and a diagonal down air to keep King Dedede busy while he's on the ground. So we should expect every Lucas to do those two attacks because they sometimes go through King Dedede's actions.
Lucas will abuse PK Fire when at a distance to space himself, so we must expect that too. I am just pointing out the things a normal Lucas will do in this match-up.

QFTW.
10wins

 

[_clinton]

And if lucas lands in DDD's Fsmash he will die at 40%... whats your point.

Lucas has a set up for his usmash on D3...god just get him to use his recovery move at the right area...

 

[Commander_Beef]

QFTW.
10wins

Lol, I'm curious. What's the Q in the Ftw for? =D

 

[Gates]

Lol, I'm curious. What's the Q in the Ftw for? =D

The Q stands for "Quoted".

 

[Commander_Beef]

The Q stands for "Quoted".

Oh okay thanks. This video might be getting annoying to people who look at the DDD boards everyday, but I want to spread how explosive brawl can be. Read the description first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJXVvHmG5ew&feature=channel_page

 

[CRASHiC]

Beef, I thought you just posted that in the vid thread. That would have been fine. But in every thread, all at once. That's a bit much :/ especially the stickies. Come on man, don't get banned.