but r0y h4s ph1r3!
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Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)
- Thread starter Gates
- Start date
zomg, it's even harder to get around than planking.
It's also universally legal.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Okay, I may be wrong, or the thread for the match-up against Wolf was not updated, or it was just my opponent's playstyle, but the Wolf I played against was unbelieveable. I could only grab him three times during the game for a chain grab, and the rest of the time, he did a regular roll. It was unbelieved because I thought for sure that he couldn't roll, but he did! Wolf's normally abuse their Fsmash and Dsmash to bulky characters, and spam their gun, and that is what the Wolf I faced did also. So I think Wolf should be looked at more for this match-up, because it is unbelievable.
Vayseth
Smash Master
Talking about wolf, people say he can be ledge infinited but I have never seen it/done it. Anyone got proof of this?
@ Commander_Beef - I'm guessing you were either chaingrabbing wrong or your opponent was deliberately trying to stay as far away from you as possible.
@ Vayseth - Go to the Q&A thread.
@ Topic - So what counterpicks would be good against PT? I'm kind of at a loss here since it seems like each pokemon has different advantages for stages.
@ Vayseth - Go to the Q&A thread.
@ Topic - So what counterpicks would be good against PT? I'm kind of at a loss here since it seems like each pokemon has different advantages for stages.
Coney
Smash Master
I think because of just that you should focus on the Pokémon you have the most trouble with.
If you really despise fighting Squirtle, go somewhere where Squirtle's aerial acrobatics can't do him as much good. Same with the other two.
I should note that I have no idea what those CP's should be, but PS1 sounds good against Squirtle and I've knocked some 'zards senseless on Delfino.
Not that I've ever had a problem with Ivysaur, but if I did I'm sure I'd take him to Rainbow Cruise. It'd be hilarious.
If you really despise fighting Squirtle, go somewhere where Squirtle's aerial acrobatics can't do him as much good. Same with the other two.
I should note that I have no idea what those CP's should be, but PS1 sounds good against Squirtle and I've knocked some 'zards senseless on Delfino.
Not that I've ever had a problem with Ivysaur, but if I did I'm sure I'd take him to Rainbow Cruise. It'd be hilarious.
Pick somewhere that you can stay on a long ground. Final Destination seems good. If you want a specific CP level, Stadium 1 is alright. You don't really need gimmicks to help against PT.
lain
Smash Master
just to clarify, i meant do that against everyone.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
Yeah I guess you're right, but if there has been Wolf vs. King Dedede matches lately, I would imagine them spacing a lot. But I think Wolf players have changed a little, therefore, it should be updated. It is just my opinion, because that match was beyond my comprehension. EDIT: And also, it wasn't that I could not chain grab him. I attempted grabs and his roll was unexpectedly faster than other characters that I have experienced, which dodged King Dedede's hand. Do you have anything to say on the edited part of my quote? =(
You mean that a majority of Wolf players have changed their playstyles since we discussed the Wolf matchup TWO WEEKS AGO?
That seems unlikely.
Wolf matchup stands. If you have a problem, PM me instead of wasting space in the thread.
Vayseth
Smash Master
Or talk to me on AIM. I play Omniswell on a semi-regular basis and he's one of the best wolfs around. I know it well.
Jupz
Smash Master
Squirtle can combo Dedede fairly easily but is killed early and has pretty poor recovery. Ivysaur... meh he's pretty good at spacing I suppose but we always have Ftilt and waddle dees. Charizard can't be gimped easily.
Imo 65/45 D3's favour.
Imo 65/45 D3's favour.
This seems right. Especially mathematically speaking.
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
sMexy-Blu
Smash Lord
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CRASHiC
Smash Hero
I'd like to request that 1. we do Jigglypuff and we consider doing Kirby again. Several Kirby's on the Kirby boards now believe the match up is in our favor. And I've heard talk from fogo that Jiggly vs. Dededee is 70/30 JIGGS FAVOR.
roflmao, somehow I doubt Fogo was serious about that. Rest is way too good though...
IN MELEE!
Jiggs was already on our schedule for discussion but I can bump him up since he's got 2 requests now as opposed to Lucas's 1 request.
Also, feel free to suggest rediscussions, though discussing new character matchups will always take priority over them. We didn't get a good turnout when we discussed Kirby last time, so I'm fine with doing it again. Just as long as you don't say something like "ZOMG DERE'S NO WAI SNAEK IZ MOAR DEN 50:50 AGENST DDD!!!11!!" I'll probably be ok with a rediscuss.
Jupz
Smash Master
Woops I meant 65/35 lol 
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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- A2ZOMG
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This matchup is pretty straightforward. Squirtle is very annoying since he can combo DDD, can't be CGed, and can harrass DDD's recovery with water gun and other dumb stuff. The other two pretty much get crushed in this matchup once they get grabbed. DDD also can outcamp those two with superior range and a better projectile.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Put your jammies on and go to bed, killer. It's a school night. Also, characters boards are commonly... a bit off, frome time to time...?
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
Wolf is generally not that easy of a character to grab. That's all I have to say. Then again, I could be wrong, who knows?
Double post btw.
planetstereo
Smash Ace
The stage that immediately comes to mind would be Frigate cause of how much it messes with ivysor (cause of no ledge on one side). Stage is flat so nothing stops cg. Past this the stage changes screw with all the pokemon except charizard far more than with you...thus you have major advantage here
in general, Charizard is the only character in the game to have a larger grab range than you and a good PT will use that to there advantage. Thats all i can think of right now too lazy
WOW closed and i was writing...lol
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
1. Yoshi has a grab release chain on D3, although it hard to use...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178435
Either way...Yoshi's running and pivot grabs are very good...
2. He/she/it also has an annoying projectile...
3. It also lives for a while
4. Overall can be hard to gimp for the most part if the Yoshi is any good as well...even if a footstool equals death on it when it is using its 2nd jump...
5. Yoshi's air movement is greater then JP's and its Bair is pretty good...
1. On the other hand...Yoshi has some issues with killing and in this case with D3, Yoshi's grab release doesn't lock into an Usmash on D3 for one thing and D3 has no issues with living vertically as far as that goes anyway...although you should watch out for the Usmash, Fsmash, and the Uair
2. D3's chain grab adds far more damage to Yoshi then Yoshi's does to D3...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178435
Either way...Yoshi's running and pivot grabs are very good...
2. He/she/it also has an annoying projectile...
3. It also lives for a while
4. Overall can be hard to gimp for the most part if the Yoshi is any good as well...even if a footstool equals death on it when it is using its 2nd jump...
5. Yoshi's air movement is greater then JP's and its Bair is pretty good...
1. On the other hand...Yoshi has some issues with killing and in this case with D3, Yoshi's grab release doesn't lock into an Usmash on D3 for one thing and D3 has no issues with living vertically as far as that goes anyway...although you should watch out for the Usmash, Fsmash, and the Uair
2. D3's chain grab adds far more damage to Yoshi then Yoshi's does to D3...
Jupz
Smash Master
It can be quite hard for D3 to gimp yoshis recovery with bairs unless you predict when he is going to use his second jump becuase of the super armor. Bair beats most of yoshis aerials and on the ground D3 dominates yoshi with a better chain grab, and ftilt which outranges yoshis moves. King Dedede can utilt for the kill but yoshi isn't that light so don't expect to kill until 110+ unless you get a gimp. Yoshi has bigger problems killing though.
Metatitan
Smash Master
yoshi outcamps ddd and the egg lay works wonders on him, but your cg just plain stings x_x
- killing is also a big issue against d3,
- killing is also a big issue against d3,
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
I'm going to quote fogo here, It is impossible to edge guard against a good Yoshi.
YoshiIslander77z
Smash Apprentice
double jump air dodge is how we dont get gimped, basically the air dodge will last the whole double jump frames so it will allow the yoshi to get close to the stage without taking damage, it almost better the just wait for the yoshi on the stage.
pivot grabs have a semi big role in this match up even tho ur f tilt out ranges it, i think it could out range ur back air. this basically helps keep d3 in the air (above yoshi) where yoshi can deal with him much easier.
do not underestimate egg lay, not egg toss. the move is hard to use which stops some players from using it, it is mostly a suprise grab that keep d3 above yoshi .
dont expect a yoshi to cg a d3 as it is very easy to miss and then yoshi can be punish with most moves
yoshi is as heavy as wario so he wont live as long as snake but it will be in the 110% before a up tilt would kill him with di (im not sure the % correct me if im wrong)
bairs will combo into up tilt/f tilt and keep d3 in the air. basically if yoshi can juggle d3 mutiple times the match wont be very hard for yoshi, with this said if u r in the air more side by side ish then this isnt to bad of a place as long as ur close enough a pivot grab would come out soon enough
killing d3 is a betch, he will be living a long while, down b is a kill move and kils pretty early (compared to yoshi's other moves)
thi is my opionion, im not as expirence as some other yoshi's but this is what i take from it.
pivot grabs have a semi big role in this match up even tho ur f tilt out ranges it, i think it could out range ur back air. this basically helps keep d3 in the air (above yoshi) where yoshi can deal with him much easier.
do not underestimate egg lay, not egg toss. the move is hard to use which stops some players from using it, it is mostly a suprise grab that keep d3 above yoshi .
dont expect a yoshi to cg a d3 as it is very easy to miss and then yoshi can be punish with most moves
yoshi is as heavy as wario so he wont live as long as snake but it will be in the 110% before a up tilt would kill him with di (im not sure the % correct me if im wrong)
bairs will combo into up tilt/f tilt and keep d3 in the air. basically if yoshi can juggle d3 mutiple times the match wont be very hard for yoshi, with this said if u r in the air more side by side ish then this isnt to bad of a place as long as ur close enough a pivot grab would come out soon enough
killing d3 is a betch, he will be living a long while, down b is a kill move and kils pretty early (compared to yoshi's other moves)
thi is my opionion, im not as expirence as some other yoshi's but this is what i take from it.
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
If you forward tilt a Yoshi, you will be punished with a added mindgame from Yoshi's options. No joke -_-.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
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- 3,189
I guess I should point out that it makes a nice DJC move overall
Jupz
Smash Master
Forgot to post my ratio before, imo 60:40 or 55:45 DDD's favor. Its almost impossible to edgeguard a good yoshi as he can up b you to interrupt the gimp and the super armour frames on his double jump, if he airdodges he can get back with relative ease.
Depster
Smash Champion
I find myself breaking d3's cg with yoshi's jab more than actually getting chaingrabbed across the stage, though most people don't believe me.
sMexy-Blu
Smash Lord
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I'm 100% sure someone just said the exact thing you just posted, Jupz.
I wonder who was the one...
Yoshi's Up B is the most broken @$$ projectile in the whole game after Zelda's Drin Fire... He can Up B while planking... and I think that cannot be punished lol so he can do it over and over again.
Yoshi has a good grab game or annoying, If you will. He can combo DeDeDe with ease and catch him with his fast Pivot grabs.
He has a lot deadly follow-ups after Egg-Lay and he has the best horizontal aerial movement and I think DeDeDe has the worst... (lol pwnt)
Recovering against Yoshi is hard IMO, His Uair is extremely strong and he can Uair us out of SDJ (Super DeDeDe Jump) so I mostly always cancel it early to grab the edge.
It all comes down when DeDeDe grabs Yoshi... He getsr@ped Chaingrabbed.
Yeaah...
> 
. I say 55-45.
I wonder who was the one...
Yoshi's Up B is the most broken @$$ projectile in the whole game after Zelda's Drin Fire... He can Up B while planking... and I think that cannot be punished lol so he can do it over and over again.
coughSAKURAAAI!!!cough
Yoshi has a good grab game or annoying, If you will. He can combo DeDeDe with ease and catch him with his fast Pivot grabs.
He has a lot deadly follow-ups after Egg-Lay and he has the best horizontal aerial movement and I think DeDeDe has the worst... (lol pwnt)
Recovering against Yoshi is hard IMO, His Uair is extremely strong and he can Uair us out of SDJ (Super DeDeDe Jump) so I mostly always cancel it early to grab the edge.
It all comes down when DeDeDe grabs Yoshi... He gets
Yeaah...
> . I say 55-45.