Emblem Lord's Emo Moment

[Emblem Lord]

Lately I have just been feeling like there is no point. I go to tournies and I place well, but I lose to Snake's and MK's. I feel like other Marth players are going through the same thing all across the world.

I also just feel like Marth's popularity is on the decline. He hasn't really been repped during the summer at all and he isn't doing nearly as well as he used to in tournies. I know this is because the pros have turned their backs on him and because Marth doesn't have alot of gimmicks like CGing and things like that. And it doesn't help that his moveset is mostly unchanged and that you CAN play him like his Melee counter part. This leads people to pre-judge Marth and abandon him for other characters.

The other thing that just bugs me is that I CONSTANTLY find the other boards/posters underestimating Marth and perpetuating false info about him or his match-ups. It's simply exhausting and extremely frustrating. I'm tired of defending Marth or trying to convince people that he is actually good. It's tiresome.

And as Marth continues to become more and more unpopular, more and more people will continue to misunderstand what he is capable of.

Another thing that I have just have to accept, is that Marth will NEVER be winning tournies consistently. He isn't good enough. He will never be on the level of MK or Snake. Those two are broken characters and Marth just isn't. So no matter how much work the Marth community puts into Marth, I find myself feeling like it's all in vain.

Which of course...pisses me the **** off.

And of course. Brawl isn't exactly an amazing game. Actually let's be real, it's a bad game. So, now I'm asking myself, "What's the point?" Why am I repping Marth so hard and doing all this work for a character who most likely will never be given any respect and will probably never become popular again?

It just seems so pointless. People in this board will see the dumbest things about Marth, like how SH fair is all he is or other nonsense like that and I don't even have the drive to correct them anymore. I don't even want to debate his match-ups anymore with other people.

And I'm also questioning should I even stay apart of this community. The Smash community has fallen and my crew that was influential in NJ's tournament scene is dying and lost pretty much all of it's unfluence. They are stuck on Melee for the most part, which I want nothing to do with, so now I feel as though I really have no reason so continue on with being apart of this community.

I know this will upset alot of you, but that's really how I feel. I haven't made up my mind yet, but...there it is.

Thoughts/comments?

 

[Zankoku]

I'm not exactly sure why you don't want to have anything to do with Melee when you feel that Brawl is a bad game.

I've mentioned before, but the game Brawl isn't nearly as bad as the community that's been showing up as of late. Most of them haven't been to tournaments, have no Melee experience, and sometimes even base all their thoughts on their "experience" in Wifi. **** happens. I suppose you have it extra hard, since you're trying to rep a character who's simultaneously popular in the boards and unpopular in tournaments... sort of like Ike and Sonic, except that Marth is actually good.

I don't really have much else to say here, if you'd like to talk further I'm always on AIM.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Because...I also think Melee is a bad game and I never really liked Melee in the first place.

 

[iMeeHow]

Is it possible to get broken charachters banned from tourneys :D

 

[Steel]

We'd all miss you man. You've given this community so much and I think there may still be more to discover. May I suggest giving it a few more months?

 

[Anth0ny]

I feel ya. Getting pwned by Snakes and MK's piss me off too.

And as Marth continues to become more and more unpopular, more and more people will continue to misunderstand what he is capable of.

That's when we catch em offguard

As for you leaving the community, that would really be a shame. I can say with certainty that you are the authority when it comes to Brawl Marth at the moment, and some of the stuff you've written about him (expecially the match-up thread) is simply put, awesome. You would definately be missed should you leave.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Emblem Lord, things are going to get better. When those gimmicks die down after about a year, the official tier list comes out and people have gotten over simple things like grenade countering and found ways around them, then Marth will begin to get better. Marth is the fourth best character in the game and I can see him staying there. You of all people of course know what marth is capable. What we need is what Sethlon is to Falco, a figurehead player who beginners will see and think, **** I want to main that character. There isn't one right now but there will be a Ken of Brawl (possibly even Ken himself as he is going to a national tournement soon).

And to Ankoku, Brawl's community will improve with time aswell. The game has been out five months and is still in the middle of noob surge. That'll be much better in a years time. The terrible Brawl community atm is full of people who play games for around half a year to maybe a year and it will be only then the skill gap will become more pronounced and dedicated players will shine through once again

 

[JesiahTEG]

I don't think MK is as good as people make him out to be. He never wins any major tournies, and doesn't have what it takes to be "the best character." People say he's good because a lot of people place high with him, but you never see one actually winning a tourney. Off the top of my head, the top tourney winners so far have been Snake, Lucario, DeDeDe, Falco, IC's, Wario. Not a single MK taking first. M2K seconds MK, but thats about the closest you'll get.

Give it time Emblem Lord. Like you always tell me, train and power up to the next level.

Also, although Ken hasn't made an appearance at any Brawl tournies yet, he thinks Marth has potential to be top tier...Some may discredit Ken, but you have to remember he is a genius at Smash. I'm interested to see his Marth.

 

[iMeeHow]

Actually Meta has won the 2nd most amount of tournys
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

 

[KaosKun]

As much as I enjoy winning tournies, i think you should just represent the character you like to play most. For instance, when i was playing melee with OBM he played GaW in tournies and that character was not even close to being good enough to win tournies. If you honestly like playing a character, then play the character. I don't care that ROB, GaW, MK and snake are far superior to him, I am still going to play him. I don't just play Marth though, i throw in a Wario and DK every now and then. If you don't like marth because no one else likes marth thats kinda lame.

 

[iMeeHow]

If u think Marth has no chance againsta certain charachter Try having a secondary that might have a better chance

 

[JesiahTEG]

No, that's not how many tournies he's won, that's just how well he's ranked. What I said is still true, he places really high frequently, but never wins.

 

[iMeeHow]

Read it again its strictly a list of Tourny results and nothing on opinion
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

 

[Zankoku]

Old tournament data:
Snake won 35 tournaments
Meta Knight won 18 tournaments
Wario won 17 tournaments
Dedede won 15 tournaments

 

[iMeeHow]

But Meta is still 2nd right
btw why isnt link or samus on the list?

 

[Jibbles]

Give it time EL. It's probably simply natural that Marth's usage will drop. Don't worry. He'll rise sometime in the future. I know it's very sad to see the other boards underrate Marth, but don't give up just because of that. Don't go correcting them if you feel that it's pointless. Sooner or later they'll learn it the hard way

In fact, this is the perfect moment to turn things around. Once people start underestimating Marth, they'll be beaten senselessly. This will oddly make him THE only one that's high up on the tier list that people will simply not know how to play well against.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

wait til i start going to tournaments more *****, u will be a happy boi

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dang. I got *****. xD

Recently though, is it still true? I know Wario+ Snake win most recent cali tourneys, along with DeDeDe...Falco G&W and IC's in Texas, DeDeDe in NJ, Lucario in MD, along with DDD, R.O.B. in midwest...

 

[MarthTrinity]

Well if it means anything hopefully it'll also show a decline in the amout of people going "ZOMG! MARTH ISH TEH BROKEN! PEOPLE WHO USE MARTH DON'T HAVE SKILL!!"

And it shouldn't matter what the other character boards think about Marth, the dedicated fans will continue to use him even if he's not the unholy tournament winner everyone wants to play. And by no means is Marth a bad character at all, there's still amazing Marth players like Yayuhzz and others.

Just my two cents though, whether you want to continue with the Smash community is up to you.

 

[DireklianCliff]

I've noticed something: All four of those "best" characters that won all those tournaments are new characters. I personally feel (above everything else) that Snake, MetaKnight, King Dedede, and Wario are hard to beat simply because they have the unknown factor. We've been playing the Melee cast for five or six years. We know what to expect, we can adjust to their translation from Melee to Brawl fairly easily, and we've got all sorts of paradigms stuck in our minds. But there is no such thing for the new characters.

As for the popularity... I'm glad Marth's popularity is dying! One of the things I hated about Melee was that Marth, Fox, and Captain Falcon were among the *only* characters played competitively. And most people played Marth. That made being Marth nothing special. Everyone was Marth. With people spreading out and adopting different characters, its makes Marth better, in my opinion.

I say give it time. MetaKnight isn't *that* amazing, and while Snake is incredibly broken (has to be the best friend thing), he isn't all that hard to defeat. Keep playing these guys, and even seek out the "unbeatable" and keep playing against them. You'll learn the secrets to their characters nad you'll find out how to beat them. Afterall, as you said, Marth is a solid character with a pretty good match-up against the entire roster. He has all the tools he needs to win.

But even if you do leave, Emblem Lord, when I finally do get my own Wii, will you play me? I would love to pit myself against one of the elite.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Everyone in Melee played Marth, Fox, Falco, or Sheik, not just Marth. Those 4 were used more than Captain Falcon also. And, Marth had so many options, every good Marth was different from each other....Ken, Azen, M2K, Neo, DJ Combo to a lesser extent, KDJ, Cactuar...Saying Marth isn't anything special is wrong.

 

[xcapablancax]

dont let the bs tier lists get to your head. this game has been constantly changing since it came out. i remember the first tournies had a ton of zelda's and pit's, and campers like toon link were supposed to dominate the game. just think about why you decided to main marth in the first place. for me it was his bad *** edge game

 

[∫unk]

This is why you play Brawl teams

And Melee is a good game.

 

[Dannykat]

It is true, Marth is becomming unpopular. At AZonetwostep, I only saw about 5 that actually mained him. None of them were very good though except for B-stick.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I have been feeling the same way recently, but if you really wish to leave, then there is nothing we can do to stop you. However, to say that you would be missed, would be an extreme understatement.

I have also realized the issue with Snake and MK, and have been trying my best to create a decent Snake guide. Speaking of which, you are in the Smash Backroom for a reason, and any comments, or additions to my guide would be highly appreciated.

Well do what ever you want to do, as there is little point of doing something you don't enjoy.

 

[Unusual_Rex]

It doesn't matter what others think of Marth, it's what we know of him. Them hating Marth doesn't make him a worse character.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I personally think that you should just take a break Emblem Lord. You shouldn't give up on Marth, but just let other people find out stuff for themselves. Marth as a character is definately good enough to win tournaments, it's just that the top level players are also playing characters that are more than good enough to win, and nobody really noticable is playing Marth. That doesn't mean that Marth will never win consistantly, just that we have a large hill to climb (hey, if Mango can win with Jigglypuff, then why can't some other person storm through the scene with Marth). Still, that's probably going to take a long time, and reading the boards every day waiting for it to happen is just going to make you more depressed, so really, just take a break. You deserve it after all. I'll defend Marth myself if need be, so don't worry about his reputation falling while you're gone.

Besides, I've been getting rather bored anyway, and I'd enjoy having a few debates with people.

 

[Ulevo]

Emblem Lord, you know that I am a supporter of Jiggs as a character, both competitively and statistically. Now, regardless of whether or not my opinion of Jigglypuff is wrong, or even farfetched, I don't go around telling people what's what about a character just because I think they're wrong or a little narrow minded on a subject. There are plenty of "Jigglypuff is the worst character in brawl" threads in the Jiggs Sub Forum in which I could be in right now attempting to correct others, but what's the point? I enjoy the character for my own reasons, and at the end of the day, if I enjoy this character competitively, I should be happy.

You don't need to liberate Marth just because people are naive. If they wish to be ignorant then let them, you have better things to spend time on. And you don't need to be concerned with his popularity. He's a popular character with plenty of potential, and he will always remain that way, no matter how many Snakes or Meta Knights dominate. As for your crew, and your personal view on Brawl itself, I can't say much else other than train hard, have fun, and climb to the next challenge.

I'm on AIM if you wish to converse.

 

[AdmiralComrade]

Ahh... yes.. Brawl is alot "different" to melee its not as fast paced and all that plus now with snake marth needs a new playing style agasitn him... hmm ...

tbh i dont really care if snake and MK is better, i like marth =D hes my fav character (i really dont kno why and i cant explain why) but it just is! well i kno my level of expertise isnt as good as urs but.. yeah.. imo more techniques are going to get discovered... (well so far, i see every marth playing the same) well.. imo, snake has caught my eye (ofc being a MGS fan) but not for his tourney results

i really hate it when im just discussing Brawl with my friends and they're like why do u play marth hes such a broken character and im like ... wtf. and then im like how about snake he seems fun, and hes like wtf hes more broken.

well.. iunno about u guys.. i play for fun rather than competetivness well... ok ok 60% fun 40% competetiveness but still... EL im going to try take Marth to a level that surpasses all =P well at least try ive won 1 tourney so far (ofc thats when brawl came out not long ago so not all players knew how to use snake and MK) so yeah i agree on ur statements but stilll im not going to give up :D

 

[Brightside6382]

Why are you acting like such a baby? Marth is a ****ing video game character get over it and pick a new char you KNOW is good. (AKA Snake)

 

[iMeeHow]

Ive been beating a few snakes when i choose Rainbow cruise, think about it
When snake plants his C4 (or w/e it is) u can easily get away because of the moving stage.
Snake doesnt jump to high so when u are moving he doesnt reaaly have time to get grenades or plant and if he deos get a grenade just keep following with the stage and itl usualy miss u
Marths ariel game is amazing and in rainbow cruise ure in the air alot so u can defintly punish snake easily

As for MetaKnight.. he's still a problem

 

[Boat Mode]

Why are you acting like such a baby? Marth is a ****ing video game character get over it and pick a new char you KNOW is good. (AKA Snake)

ur pretty cool

but yeah, to what EL said, ive been feelin the same thing lately, w/o the i brought marth to a new level and defended him on the boards part. the meta game is going to become campy hell, and is being dominated by snakes and mk's(w/ a few others mixed in between), and im really feelin a switch back to melee...

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Ive been beating a few snakes when i choose Rainbow cruise, think about it
When snake plants his C4 (or w/e it is) u can easily get away because of the moving stage.
Snake doesnt jump to high so when u are moving he doesnt reaaly have time to get grenades or plant and if he deos get a grenade just keep following with the stage and itl usualy miss u
Marths ariel game is amazing and in rainbow cruise ure in the air alot so u can defintly punish snake easily

Yeah I totally agree, I was planning on adding this to the counter pick section of the Snake guide, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[VietGeek]

The other thing that just bugs me is that I CONSTANTLY find the other boards/posters underestimating Marth and perpetuating false info about him or his match-ups. It's simply exhausting and extremely frustrating. I'm tired of defending Marth or trying to convince people that he is actually good. It's tiresome.

I feel that I am somewhat responsible for the match-ups part, as I have had some trouble with ROB. I feel that my posts may have implied that ROB is a Marth counter, or that the match-up is slightly on ROB's favor. I apologize for my immature behavior and should not have let my emotions skew my logical though process.

Also, in the earlier days of my membership to this board, I may have agreed on controversial match-ups such as Marth vs. MK to be skewed toward the latter character, and along with a few others, created a falsity toward the match-up and being un-rightfully bias.

I also have recognized that it is difficult for me to portray my thoughts correctly, and felt I may have slipped up here and there. The fact that I visit this board daily also brings to mind that I may have posted up false information near-daily. The inaccuracies of my post or my inability to transfer conscious thought into language may have caused misunderstanding and may have carried ignorance unforeseen.

Therefore, I apologize to you Emblem Lord in regards to myself and possibly any others that may have caused such discrepancies in declaring Marth's capabilities in the competitive scene.

Also, I feel that if you are to allow yourself some...relaxation. Perhaps that will allow you a new outlook on Marth, and possibly the Brawl metagame as well.

I too have found myself to be a troubled player as of late, and perhaps straying away from Smash Bros. for a little while may refresh our spirits. I also apologize if my ROB depression/worthless player attitude may have disheartened you as well.

Err, I have no more words. I believe I have tried to describe my thoughts as accurately as possible using my limited 8th grade vocabulary.

 

[3xSwords]

As a current marth mainer I feel obliged to respond to this thread. The ironic thing is that EL is feeling depressed over Marth and all and I was the same way except for my previous main.........Ike. Laugh all the heck you want but I really liked to play him. The notion of being the few who were "truly" skilled with a noob character really appealed to me.

So I would defend him as much as I could, try and convince ppl he aint that bad but eventually I got to the point where its just not worth it. Than I saw Marth and I saw the light (of the tip? lol). Finally a character who could beat Meta and Snake on a more even scale. To me everything about Marth seemed like ultima.

Result? I switched from Ike into a Marth mainer. I guess the only thing that influenced my decision was that Marth was high tier compared to Ike's low-mid tier status, but really I think its just a matter of opening your eyes. Because before I switched over to Marth I took a really realllyy long time. I thought well Ike is still fun, he can still counter projetiles with ....., and characters like MK and snake with ..... But in the end I just gave up.

Ike has very limited options a lot of the time and it just felt like I was doing the same thing over and over again which is why I changed. Hopefully this doesn't make you quit Marth and move on to another character but really EL I'm just saying if you know that Marth can win against others and you know that he is more than ppl really think he is than don't switch. Also for one if ppl really just think Marth is SH Fair spamming doesnt that imply that more noobs are coming to these boards. And if more knowledgables like yourself, EL, leave than doesn't that just turn the Marth forums into a noob and scrub breeding ground like the Ike forums? So please don't leave.

 

[feardragon64]

EL, lemme just sum up the whole situation about you leaving with a sentence since you already know how it is: The marth community will be at a tremendous loss without you. Enough said on that since I know you're fully aware of that and don't want everyone to be going "T_T" on your topic.

I can see where you're coming from. In the end, it sort of doesn't make sense if you're playing to win to play a character that you think won't make it to top tier. I can only attempt to imagine how the yoshi or falcon players feel. But let's also make note that marth really isn't doing that badly. He's still high top tier according to the tournament listings. Brawl has only been out for approx. 3.25 months? Marth is also one of the few characters that I feel can successfully play a more aggressive game(in comparison to others). But the other thing is, are you just playing marth because he's your style? I may not be a total expert, but I'm pretty sure that the top players aren't winning those tournaments just because they're using good characters(well...most of them). Sure they're great, but I doubt that those players are only winning because of that. Those players found a particular play style IN that character that suits them. If you feel that way about mk or snake, then you should, by all means, go play them(although I'll be greatly saddened). But if you DON'T then you're honestly probably better of going with marth since I think you'll end up being more SKILLED for it. While characters have a great deal to do with the skill level, the players have more influence in the end. And besides, ask yourself why you're playing this game. You obviously think it's a "bad" game. So I'm guessing you have some level of satisfaction. Well then, why not just stick with the satisfaction and see if you can work around those snake players. I know they have a huge advantage due to their character, but I honestly don't believe any single one of them has developed some unbeatable strategy...so if you want you can work to develop the strategy that works against them(and everyone else should do the same, preferably together of course as the marth community), but hey, it's all part of the game. If the game didn't have any complex challenges like that, I wouldn't bother with the game honestly =b.

As for the whole defending marth, who the hell cares. I know you want to defend your character and everything, but they're not going to listen. How many people do you think were truly convinced and made an actual mental change about their opinions on marth when you argue with them, and how many of them will have the mental change when they SEE a good marth. Let your actions speak for themselves. You have a good marth, as do a lot of other marth players. We might not have a gimpyfish persay, but the marth's we have show how skilled marth can be without all the gimmicks other characters have.

Anyways, I know several people have said they're open on aim for talking, and same offer applies to me(although I will be sleeping now since I have to get up early tomorrow). Best of luck, and look forward to seeing a reply from you on this rather interesting topic you've decided to post.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

What are you complaining about? At least everyone actually knows how good Marth is. It's not like you're a Lucas/Ness player who has to deal with unfair chain grabs, or a Lucario player who have to put up with almost standard underestimation.

Most non-Marth mainers would agree that he needs a nerf. You'd be surprised.

I don't consider Marth a broken character anymore like I used to, and I've started to pick him up recently too. (Spacing is similar to Lucario, but a lot more frustrating, and with lag, and massive ko power.) And I really love his specials.

I also find it annoying how pessimistic you are about Brawl. Saying it's a bad game is just silly. Not perfect I can agree with, but bad -no. It takes more than a few chain grabs to spoil the competitiveness of a game for me. And I actually prefer the feel of Brawl compared to Melee. There, I said it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

LOL!

No hitstun plus tripping plus more powerful defensive options equals a bad game.

Basically Brawl upsets the equilibrium between defense and offense. Offensiveness leads to very little, so you end up with a defensive and boring game, where you have to work VERY hard if you don't have a projectile.

*Looks at Marth

Brawl is bad.

I don't give a **** if it annoys you or not. The game is a joke compared to most other decent fighters like the Guilty Gear series for example.

And you prefering Brawl to Melee is meaningless to me. I think they are both bad games, sooooo yeah.

Brightside: Aren't you like..a Marth hater now?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

LOL!

No hitstun plus tripping plus more powerful defensive options equals a bad game.

Basically Brawl upsets the equilibrium between defense and offense. Offensiveness leads to very little, so you end up with a defensive and boring game, where you have to work VERY hard if you don't have a projectile.

*Looks at Marth

Brawl is bad.

I don't give a **** if it annoys you or not. The game is a joke compared to most other decent fighters like the Guilty Gear series for example.

In your opinion perhaps, but why is a defense-oriented game such a bad thing? I've always been a defensive player in fighting games. I love counters ad blocking and reversals and poking. For me there is nothing boring about Brawl at all.

Go play some good doujn fighters or something if you want super aggressive play. I hear the PC version of MONSTER Ancient Cline is going to be solid as a rock (August 16 release) that is, if you aren't scared of furries.

 

[Zankoku]

You don't need a super-aggressive game, just one that doesn't put a very significant emphasis on one playstyle over the other.