metashinryu
Smash Ace
man i think ptp then dj gives you more height cuz you can cancel it with the ouble jump,also if you use it after jumping it makes your up+b lose height IMO
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
otg
Smash Master
True story. I'm also pretty sure you can't cancel the ending lag of a ptp with a DJ. If you can, I need to start jumping on that asap, cause it seems like that ending lag is what allows Doc to get ****ed over while trying to recover.
Lets see, what to say.
Caping, in large, doenst help you protect yourself on edgeguard because of how the reflect mechanics work in melee. Alot of times if people use an attack that hangs out there for a while (n.airs, like OTG said, some b.airs, etc etc), they're still going to travel into you, because reflecting people doesnt reverse their controls. If this was brawl, caping on your recovery would ****. (That is the one thing i absolutely hate about melee compared to brawl).
PTP. Cant be cancelled with DJ. Not unless there's some dumb glitch NOBODY has discovered yet. If you PTP and DJ as soon as possible, then yes, you actually do gain some height and distance (this is assuming you actually PTP'd right). Realistitically, the best time to PTP is BEFORE you jump (When you're away from the stage), because you're committing 79 frames to an action. I could file my taxes in 79 frames, it's not hard to pick off. PTP doesnt effect ANYTHING before or after it, it's its own seperate action.
__
On a completely unrelated note. I went and saw Dragon Ball today. Dear god. XD
Caping, in large, doenst help you protect yourself on edgeguard because of how the reflect mechanics work in melee. Alot of times if people use an attack that hangs out there for a while (n.airs, like OTG said, some b.airs, etc etc), they're still going to travel into you, because reflecting people doesnt reverse their controls. If this was brawl, caping on your recovery would ****. (That is the one thing i absolutely hate about melee compared to brawl).
PTP. Cant be cancelled with DJ. Not unless there's some dumb glitch NOBODY has discovered yet. If you PTP and DJ as soon as possible, then yes, you actually do gain some height and distance (this is assuming you actually PTP'd right). Realistitically, the best time to PTP is BEFORE you jump (When you're away from the stage), because you're committing 79 frames to an action. I could file my taxes in 79 frames, it's not hard to pick off. PTP doesnt effect ANYTHING before or after it, it's its own seperate action.
__
On a completely unrelated note. I went and saw Dragon Ball today. Dear god. XD
otg
Smash Master
How bad was it on a scale of 1-10? It looks god awful and I remember seeing a trailer a few months ago thinking to myself "wtf, goku is a ****ing emo kid? and piccolo is purple?"
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
LOL I'm glad I didn't go see dragonball.
I'm starting to love this thread, I can't believe I haven't posted here often in the past.
Anybody here going to spoc?
I'm starting to love this thread, I can't believe I haven't posted here often in the past.
Anybody here going to spoc?
He actually is green in the movie.
On a scale of 1-10, 1 being the worst 10 being the best, i'd actually have to give it a 3.
I went into the movie knowing it was going to blow. I went in there knowing I dont like dragon ball. I went in there understanding that this wasnt a live action adaptation, but a mainstream American adaptation (read: i knew it was going to blow and that's why I went), and with all that in there, it wasnt really THAT bad.
Dont get me wrong; the movie still sucked, but it coulda been alot worse.
I will say one thing in the movie's defense. Although they found one of the worst actresses ever, Bulma actually didnt turn out bad. Infact, she was real close to her anime persona (I actually she was exactly like her anime persona, just bad acting/bad lines, etc). And yeah, as dumb as it looks in the trailer, for what they were trying to pitch her off as, it actually made sense for her to carry guns (Although I want to know why the **** she carries THREE handguns.)
.... but man, dont get me started on that movie. I could go on for a while. XD
metashinryu
Smash Ace
hey ptp doesnt have interruption frames(IASA) as some other attacks? thats why i said jump to *cancel* it
that movie was a crap by the way...
that movie was a crap by the way...
Yeah, no IASA frames; so I dunno what you were talkin bout.SDM's Frame Data said:
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I've found I've been doing more "as many B Airs as'll hit" combos (not even offstage) at the moment then the same thing with U Air. I'm just finding U Air too awkward a lot of time due to percentage dependancy and B Air just seems to always work.
I didn't phrase that as a question. Errr, am I a bad person because of this?
I didn't phrase that as a question. Errr, am I a bad person because of this?
Deff: I'm going to SPOC, but you probably knew that. Gonna play some Smash 64 there as well, because I love that game.
On Doc's tornado: It's good to know about the lack of IASA. Now I know using the Doc tornado won't dictate how I use my second jump.
I think I'm gonna do some cape tests with AR sometime today. I'm curious as to how much and how it extends animations, and how exactly it makes certain characters/recoveries go extremely high. I don't buy that it always does the same thing to every attack. There's something else like how long the animation has been playing or something. Could be all that kind of info is available somewhere, but I want to see it for myself.
Probably also going to test the priority of ftilt and utilt against some ground attacks I'm scared of, to see if I can get things to clank. I can't guarentee super accuracy on this stuff, but if I find anything particularly shocking I'll post it.
On Doc's tornado: It's good to know about the lack of IASA. Now I know using the Doc tornado won't dictate how I use my second jump.
I think I'm gonna do some cape tests with AR sometime today. I'm curious as to how much and how it extends animations, and how exactly it makes certain characters/recoveries go extremely high. I don't buy that it always does the same thing to every attack. There's something else like how long the animation has been playing or something. Could be all that kind of info is available somewhere, but I want to see it for myself.
Probably also going to test the priority of ftilt and utilt against some ground attacks I'm scared of, to see if I can get things to clank. I can't guarentee super accuracy on this stuff, but if I find anything particularly shocking I'll post it.
Desh
Smash Ace
To answer your question about not asking a question, yeah you're a horrible person.
randomly i forget when dogy said it but he quoted hylian saying uair is a mobile jab,
i thought it was green mario who said that O_o
randomly i forget when dogy said it but he quoted hylian saying uair is a mobile jab,
i thought it was green mario who said that O_o
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doc is a beast
i chaingrabbed some dude a million times dash-cancel grabbing each time and he paused -> l+r+a+start'd because of the annoyance.
i'm totally picking up doc now.
i chaingrabbed some dude a million times dash-cancel grabbing each time and he paused -> l+r+a+start'd because of the annoyance.
i'm totally picking up doc now.
If you can get them to combo, sure. Since I know they really dont, ... just dont let people realize it dont work.
Against ground attacks? You could make that pretty accurate, save angled attacks.
If you could somehow do it (and i dunno if you can do it with AR), if you could do one of the hitbox thingies for cape, that would be pretty beastly. I know the reason why there isnt one is because "you cant see the hitbox" or something like that, but if you could get it to where you can see ANYTHING; the cape's hitbox, the complete reflect box, that'd be pretty awesome.
Na, hylian said that years ago on these forums. It's just a little quote I remember from him from years ago. But realistically that's what it is when you SHFFL u.air. SH u.air is a completely different story (that's more of an antiair)
Lawl. Welcome to the club man.
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lol well doc would be an improvement over my current main, DK. =D i love mid-tiers
it's not that much of an improvement. DK does has some perks over Doc, like a better matchup vs marth.
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yea
falco and peach give dk so much trouble though, it seems that doc has a better chance vs. them, what with the chaingrabs and all.
falco and peach give dk so much trouble though, it seems that doc has a better chance vs. them, what with the chaingrabs and all.
Yeah. Doc vs Falco really boils down to the usual "Can you handle lasers". DK's chaingrab is actually better than Doc's in that you can do it on platforms at DK's will (Where as doc has to tech chase through them), but unless im mistaken Doc's edgeguard is so much better than DK's. Not to mention DK is a much bigger target than Doc. Doc forces Falco to shoot better lasers where as DK allows them to be sloppier. The whole shield thing doesnt help either.
Peach? Yeah, I could see that. I dont have a clue how DK/Peach goes, so I cant really say anything about that.
Peach? Yeah, I could see that. I dont have a clue how DK/Peach goes, so I cant really say anything about that.
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DK vs. Peach is easily 60-40 or worse in Peach's favor. DK's a huge target an Dsmash can easily hit him twice or even three times before it knocks him away, turnips are a pain with DK's huge hitbox and DK has trouble killing Peach as she can just float over most of his kill moves and she has an annoying recovery to edgeguard.
Lol. Plus Doc is just really fun to use =D
Lol. Plus Doc is just really fun to use =D
Desh
Smash Ace
lol i love playing dk's w/ me peach x3
and my falco
doc vs dk is just a fun match XD
and my falco
doc vs dk is just a fun match XD
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my dk beats docs
true story
EDIT: st. viers is a ***** lol
true story
EDIT: st. viers is a ***** lol
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
his dk beats doc's true story, clearly.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
yo i had a hard time with samus using falcon and then tested doc, i two stocked that bitsh, now im definitely sub maining doc XD
EDIT:i forgot to say i kicked her first stock off with an uthrow i laughed my azz off
EDIT:i forgot to say i kicked her first stock off with an uthrow i laughed my azz off
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
My understanding of the cape: all it does is give height to characters with a move that is still vertically active. I say move and not up b because this still applies to other moves like Jiggs' pound and yoshi's down b. Once the vertical part of the move is over, a cape won't give them any more height. This includes giving height to Peach while she is floating down with her umbrella out (which is gay). Fox/Falco are soft exceptions in that caping them during their up b just preserves vertical momentum; instead, they will gain height if you cape them during the wind up.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
i love to see them fall backwards when i cape their up+b XD
Dogy, not sure what you mean by hitbox thingie. Like that flash thing someone made with everyone's attack hitboxes showing that you could watch frame by frame? I can't do something like that, since I have no capture card, but you can definitely see the cape's hitbox in red and reflectbox in green. If you mean something else, let me know.
eighteenspikes: Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I found out. Though I only really tested with Captain Falcon's up+b. I didn't have as much time today as I thought.
I realized I don't have the patience to set up clanks and stuff alone. I need to get someone to play with.
eighteenspikes: Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I found out. Though I only really tested with Captain Falcon's up+b. I didn't have as much time today as I thought.
I realized I don't have the patience to set up clanks and stuff alone. I need to get someone to play with.
That's exactly what I mean.
If you could somehow get that, that'd be awesome. If not *shrug* that's life. XD
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
When I still had my AR I remember checking that asap. The hitbox is huge, its like a ball around doc with the outer layer being the reflect layer and the more inner being the hitbox. Although that's all I can give you that should be something to hold you off till kasumi gets the data lol.
well, falco and fox do have a bit of vertical momentum while charging their up B..it's not enough to prevent them from falling while already heading down, but it's why if you up B at the end of a jump, you pop up a bit, and can use it to grab the edge before leaving the charging state...
Actually Deff, I think it's the other way around. (Unless we're just using different terms for stuff) The innermost ball around Doc (the reflect box) can reflect projectiles, but it doesn't give damage/flip people around. The outer red spheres (hitboxes) that follow the edge of the cape during the animation are the ones that flip/hurt people. I can't figure out if the hitboxes also reflect projectiles, but I doubt it based on how all the other reflectors in the game look.
That's why it's more difficult to cape someone's recovery than it is to reflect projectiles. The reflect box lasts nearly the entire animation and stays in the same position relative to doc as he goes through the animation. The part the flips people around comes out 6 frames after and stays only 3 frames. But that's me being long winded. Here's a breakdown of the cape animation:
Left number is how many frames into the cape animation the described situation starts. Number on the right is how many frames the described situation lasts.
1-5-Animation Starts up (Doc starts to pull out his cape)
6-6-Doc can reflect projectiles, but can't flip a person yet.
12-1-Doc can reflect projectiles. He can also flip people that are about one of Doc's body lengths (his back to his chest) in front of him, and about 50% of Doc's body height both above and below him. (In other words, half of doc's height above his head, and half of doc's height below his feet are all fair game, as long as they are also one body length in front of him)
13-1-Doc can reflect projectiles. He can also flip people in all the locations on the above frame, as well as those directly inside him and 45% of his height directly above him or 45% of his height directly below him. As well, he can flip people about half of his body length directly above him, and barely below or above him.
14-1-Doc can reflect projectiles. He can also flip people in the locations exclusive to frame 13. (In other words, the hitboxes frame 12 and 13 shared disappear, but the ones frame 13 introduced stay) He can also flip people about a full doc body length behind him, with a range of about 55% of his height above him to above 37% of his height below him.
15-19-Doc can reflect projectiles.
34-2-cool down. Doc can do nothing
36-Doc can do other stuff. (Might be able to do stuff earlier. It's hard for me to nail when an animation ends)
The sphere around Doc that can reflect projectiles stays in the same relative position to Doc for the entire 27 frames it's out. It's a sphere that doesn't cover part of his head and covers slightly below his feet. The left and right points are about half his body length from his back, and half his body length from his front, respectively.
Sorry if that's really confusing/long winded. I got a system to notate frame data that's much simpler and easier to describe any other attack, but that cape has lots of things going on.
Vulcan55: Too bad you had to fight your bro that soon. But good work kicking *** in friendlies.
Edit: If you guys want some more Doc frame data, I suppose I could do it, but you'd likely be better off going to this topic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=95150 Dogy, if I can remember, I'll try to get a small video of the cape's hitboxes on the 21st if I can get access to a capture card for like two seconds, but for now hopefully this description is enough.
I actually have no idea what they were talking about with "hitboxes went invisible" for the cape. Meh. I did it here, and they have everything else. Enjoy.
That's why it's more difficult to cape someone's recovery than it is to reflect projectiles. The reflect box lasts nearly the entire animation and stays in the same position relative to doc as he goes through the animation. The part the flips people around comes out 6 frames after and stays only 3 frames. But that's me being long winded. Here's a breakdown of the cape animation:
Left number is how many frames into the cape animation the described situation starts. Number on the right is how many frames the described situation lasts.
1-5-Animation Starts up (Doc starts to pull out his cape)
6-6-Doc can reflect projectiles, but can't flip a person yet.
12-1-Doc can reflect projectiles. He can also flip people that are about one of Doc's body lengths (his back to his chest) in front of him, and about 50% of Doc's body height both above and below him. (In other words, half of doc's height above his head, and half of doc's height below his feet are all fair game, as long as they are also one body length in front of him)
13-1-Doc can reflect projectiles. He can also flip people in all the locations on the above frame, as well as those directly inside him and 45% of his height directly above him or 45% of his height directly below him. As well, he can flip people about half of his body length directly above him, and barely below or above him.
14-1-Doc can reflect projectiles. He can also flip people in the locations exclusive to frame 13. (In other words, the hitboxes frame 12 and 13 shared disappear, but the ones frame 13 introduced stay) He can also flip people about a full doc body length behind him, with a range of about 55% of his height above him to above 37% of his height below him.
15-19-Doc can reflect projectiles.
34-2-cool down. Doc can do nothing
36-Doc can do other stuff. (Might be able to do stuff earlier. It's hard for me to nail when an animation ends)
The sphere around Doc that can reflect projectiles stays in the same relative position to Doc for the entire 27 frames it's out. It's a sphere that doesn't cover part of his head and covers slightly below his feet. The left and right points are about half his body length from his back, and half his body length from his front, respectively.
Sorry if that's really confusing/long winded. I got a system to notate frame data that's much simpler and easier to describe any other attack, but that cape has lots of things going on.
Vulcan55: Too bad you had to fight your bro that soon. But good work kicking *** in friendlies.
Edit: If you guys want some more Doc frame data, I suppose I could do it, but you'd likely be better off going to this topic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=95150 Dogy, if I can remember, I'll try to get a small video of the cape's hitboxes on the 21st if I can get access to a capture card for like two seconds, but for now hopefully this description is enough.
I actually have no idea what they were talking about with "hitboxes went invisible" for the cape. Meh. I did it here, and they have everything else. Enjoy.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
nice post kasumi
yeah, i'll have to read that at like... not 2:30 in the morning, but good work nonetheless.
___
Like, you dont even need a video of it, if you could take pictures of what you're talking about, that'd be just as good. That's all the hitbox data is, frame-by-frame pictures.
So you wouldnt even have to take all 35 frames, just the ones you listed where stuff changes.
___
Like, you dont even need a video of it, if you could take pictures of what you're talking about, that'd be just as good. That's all the hitbox data is, frame-by-frame pictures.
So you wouldnt even have to take all 35 frames, just the ones you listed where stuff changes.
doublejoint
Smash Cadet
wow thanks kasumi
i find it hard to believe we didn't have this information yet though; nobody has a dolphin emulator?
i'm definitely gonna get it for study halls next year, no setups allowed but laptops are somehow encouraged
i find it hard to believe we didn't have this information yet though; nobody has a dolphin emulator?
i'm definitely gonna get it for study halls next year, no setups allowed but laptops are somehow encouraged
I'll get pics of the cape frames up sometime, since my percentages of body height/length are probably kind of off. Still trying to figure out the best way to take pictures off a screen without all the problems normally associated with that. I'm thinking of using a mini DVD player. The colors will be bright, but everything should photograph well beyond that. I'll get all 35 frames, as well as making a gif or two, since none of that stuff will be particularly hard for me.
So it's known, I may have made a mistake. The animation might be 36 frames, meaning you can't do stuff until frame 37, not 36. I'll check again when I take the pics, and edit the post accordingly.
I'd use the dolphin emulator, but I've got a laptop with a graphics card it doesn't support.
Wanted to play melee online... guess I'll stick to Smash 64 for that.
Sidenote: My chaingrabbing is getting a little better. Just felt like saying.
So it's known, I may have made a mistake. The animation might be 36 frames, meaning you can't do stuff until frame 37, not 36. I'll check again when I take the pics, and edit the post accordingly.
I'd use the dolphin emulator, but I've got a laptop with a graphics card it doesn't support.
Wanted to play melee online... guess I'll stick to Smash 64 for that.Sidenote: My chaingrabbing is getting a little better. Just felt like saying.
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
Nice post there, yeah i'm sure your right since my memory on that subject is a little faded
do you have a team mate for spoc? dual docs?
I'll do it if my team mate doesn't come.
do you have a team mate for spoc? dual docs?
I'll do it if my team mate doesn't come.
Shroomed
Smash Master
this is good
i command thee to watch it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0hg5v4Vtl4
my doc actually sucks, i realize this now lol
i command thee to watch it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0hg5v4Vtl4
my doc actually sucks, i realize this now lol