Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Desh]

yep
it stands for too long didnt read ^_^

 

[#HBC | Mac]

wow, I think i forgot I had pills when I played this jiggs, I don't even remember using one...

 

[Dogysamich]

yeah you're right otg. Just asked a few people.

 

[KirbyKaze]

wow, I think i forgot I had pills when I played this jiggs, I don't even remember using one...

you're doing it wrong.

 

[TemPesT-]

ya, tl;dr means too long; didn't read

tl;dr version, too long didn't read

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I have trouble with jiggs too

How are you suppose to deal with her just plain running away from you? I played a jiggs at RoM (campy one) and I'm pretty sure I played the match near perfect but in the end he had a small percent lead and just ran away the whole match. This was on corneria too. Any ideas besides pilling?

Full hop fairs always seem to get me for some reason too. What I'm saying is that I believe im pretty good in this matchup but not if they are extremely camping to the point where I can't touch them/catch them.

 

[Dogysamich]

im going to take a stab in the dark (and get shot for this), but can i assume you played soft?

You litearlly only need to pill. Jiggs cant run from it. Where is jiggs going to go? Off the stage? You set yourself up so your pills bounce right past the lip. Now jiggs has to remain frameperfect to ledgestall. Jiggs ****s up? That's 20% just to make it back to the ledge.

You just pill and keep her away from you. If she starts getting close, you can try and fight her off, but realistically you could just run from you, you're faster than she is anywhere. (She AGILE in the air, that doesnt specifically mean she's MOBILE).

 

[Desh]

where are all these doc players coming from lol XP
so many of them who never post x3

edit
oh wait,
deff,
i heard of you from my friend recently i think.
did you have to play a falco in pools, or brackets?
named sanuzi?
@ RoM.
you're pretty young or summin.
huh.
heard you have a pretty sweet doc x]

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I played deathknight's jiggly, and I pretty much did that except I couldn't run while I was pilling.. I mean, I WAS reverse full jumping pills and such other stuff, but somehow he got around to it. I think I might've lost due to maybe a early rest or gimp that last match but I can't quite remember since I felt like an idiot losing a tiebreaker like that. Thanks for refreshing me though dogy

The only thing I could say was that the two sets that we played they were EXTREMELY close. Is that how it should go or does doc dominate the matchup? Not really talking about player skill here if you understand what I'm trying to say xD

edit - Desh the only spacy in my pool was raynex, so I think I might've played him in friendlies in the morning before doubles. And thanks lol

 

[Desh]

how did you do vs raynex? ^_^

edit:
uuhhh in terms of match up,
doc doesnt DOMINATE it per se. ( or at least in my opinion)
but jiggs shouldnt really give doc a hard time. =/

edit edit : pretty sure i contradicted myself, but you get the point

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

He 2-0'd everyone in the pool lol

I think I did alright though. I got one stocked both matches, he's really good imo

 

[Desh]

yeah he is XD
lol
good stuff =D

 

[otg]

I'm not going to say Doc dominates against Jiggly, that's not true. But he def gives her a hard time, the fact that he can punish a missed rest with death is pretty huge. Jiggs really can't run away from you, did he run out the clock on you?

 

[Desh]

Oh god if he timed out.
i would totally understand if you punched him LOL.
jk jkXD

 

[St. Viers]

I mean, I WAS reverse full jumping pills and such other stuff, but somehow he got around to it. I think I might've lost due to maybe a early rest or gimp that last match but I can't quite remember since I felt like an idiot losing a tiebreaker like that. Thanks for refreshing me though dogy

I'd say then that you need to learn when it's safe to pill. In those situations, just empty FFed jumps are safer, and if you can bait an attack by doing so, b-air them away again. Also, remember that sh pills let you move to, and aren't as easy to maneuver around + hit you out of.

For the record, I just dislike this immensely (don't find the matchup fun), and use marth.shiek against puff. I've timed out *friendlies* against puff players with doc, and dislike the taste in my mouth afterwards.

 

[Kasumi]

Meh, I'm another Doc lurker guy. I read this entire thread when it was 113 pages, and keep up to date now. Just saying thanks everyone for all the good Doc info. eighteenspikes, thanks for Aunt Jemima Doc. Helped me learn what works and what doesn't in regards to utilt and ftilt. I feel like my Doc is way better because of that.

OTG, Dogysamich, everyone else, thanks for all the answers to the questions, and the questions themselves. This lurker loves you guys.

Deff, hope to see you at Spoc. Xzax might play Doc now too... so many PA Docs. I'm losing my identity.

 

[doublejoint]

wow

yea im not reading this whole thread, lol (only kept up on the past like 20 pages)

i have a huge wall of doc questions that i'll eventually drop in exchange for a huge wall of green text


if that's aight

 

[St. Viers]

drop away ^__^

 

[Dogysamich]

i have a huge wall of doc questions that i'll eventually drop in exchange for a huge wall of green text

if that's aight

If you really want to bring that pain onto your eyes and the trial to your monitor. Feel free.

 

[otg]

All of us should just make our font green so the Doc boards turn into just pages and pages of green walls of text.

 

[Dogysamich]

You would try to entice people to cop my style. >.>

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Xzax might play Doc now too...

LOLOLOL

But yeah, hope to see you too.

And yeah guys he did time me out >_> Annoying stuff

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey what's up guys?

I find caping Puff awesome to keep her out when she comes up for rising aerials because it sends her soaring into the air and its awkward priority keeps her the f*ck out.

Too bad it does jack to falling Fairs and Nairs but oh well. I suppose you can just Bair through those with good spacing (ie. aim it for her head and not at her hitbox; being above her when you jumpt space it and falling onto her head is too good).

 

[Dogysamich]

Man KK, that's a pretty jacked up font you got there.

-whistles innocently-

 

[KirbyKaze]

Pimp my font should be a smash forum game.

 

[doublejoint]

*copies and pastes*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA8__vEPJvk 1:28 : it would have been better to upb after the clash, no?

what is the fastest way to turn around and ledgehog (uh, wdforward>ddanceback>perfectwdbackward ?)

best move from ledgehog(invincibility frames)>waveland (i know a lot of you do dsmash, what about utilt?)

also, how the **** do you upb cancel
i know how, but how do you (i think there was a thread on this a few weeks ago)

~
dash attack for edgeguard? that thing stays out forever and when they hit into it it's just an easy *** punish from there (kobe or just a safe bair); edgeguard opportunity at like 50-80% id say, haven't actually tried this obviously >_>

is it just me or does the cape extend some upb's?

doc moonwalk? no?

how useful is sh ff THEN uair lcancel grab at low-30% (as advance); also i never see anybody grab backward out of an l canceled aerial
ex: http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/4LABT1/?action=view&current=20090330_211519_chunk_1.flv

also, i L-cancel with z, approve?




*cough* this is just from yesterday
haha

 

[Dogysamich]

*shuffling back through his 3 forums*
____

1) Nope, you were kinda ****ed at that point. That's what happens when you have the 2nd worst recovery in the game.

2) It's situational. Sometimes wavelanding (which is what you're talking about) is actually bad because people are further in to punish anything from a waveland, so you just have to "Take what little real estate" you have. It really comes down to what you need to do. As for the actual answer to your question; depends. If they're jumping in, that or upsmash or u.air or n.air or whatever. Depends. XD

3) Um... up+1 direction, then down+another. XD Practice? I dont actually use it persay, unless im trying to do "Nintendo Power" (I SWEAR TO GOD IMA HIT SOMEBODY WITH THAT ONE DAY AND THEN IM GUNNA CALL DJ NINTENDO AND HAVE A 10 MIN CONVO WITH HIM ABOUT IT)

4) You could if you wanted to hit somebody who misses sweetspots. Not really used, but perfectly viable. Hell, just because you mentioned it, i might try to throw it back into my game (i think it might solve a "problem" that i see.)

5) It does. Like DKs, Bowsers, Peach's (As she goes up), Link/Y.Link. Yeah, you have to know what's going to happen.

6) How useful? Very. Dont see people do it? the situation's got to come up for it. SHFFL u.air is too **** good. "Use it like a mobile jab" -Hylian (from like, 2 years ago or so).

7) Yup. Great alternative to half-pressing l/r. I actually need to start z-cancelling. Im assuming if you're asking this you know WHY you want to do this. (For anybody who doesnt know, it's because if you fully press l/r and you get hit, you're still not allowed to press l/r for the next.. 20 frames or so? Meaning if you get hit and have to tech, well you just missed a tech. Half pressing l/r or pressing z overrides this rule.)

____

Yeah, feel free to ask all the stuff you want. If I dont answer it, somebody else will.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

what is the fastest way to turn around and ledgehog (uh, wdforward>ddanceback>perfectwdbackward ?)

I wd backwards

best move from ledgehog(invincibility frames)>waveland (i know a lot of you do dsmash, what about utilt?)

I actually like to waveland into a jab, but its usually a dsmash. I also ledgehop pill alot

also, how the **** do you upb cancel
i know how, but how do you (i think there was a thread on this a few weeks ago)

I don't really know how to answer this, haha. I just do it the way its suppose to be done, I warm up my fingers and then I smash the **** out of the control stick going up +b then striking down asap to the corner opposite of the one you up-b'd with

dash attack for edgeguard? that thing stays out forever and when they hit into it it's just an easy *** punish from there (kobe or just a safe bair); edgeguard opportunity at like 50-80% id say, haven't actually tried this obviously >_>

This works really nice, on spacies its kinda tricky to get on fire fox/bird, but a lot easier with their side b illusion. Works well on cf/ganon too, I usually fair them when they get hit with it.

is it just me or does the cape extend some upb's?

Yup. I once came back from a match by gimping someone, up-bing the opposite direction of the ledge, and then the mario caped me right in the middle of it, flipping me and giving the distance of two up-bs combined.

doc moonwalk? no?

I'm pretty good at moonwalking with most characters but doc always gets me.. His is either a small distance or is just really hard

 

[Dogysamich]

Oh, good lookin out deff, i completely skipped some of those.

Fastest way to ledgehog? Eh, jump and cape or jump and pill. Really depends on the situation. If you're already there, just turn around, WD backwards, ff onto ledge.

Moonwalking? If you want to. I personally dont think there's too much of a point to it, but that's just me and what I think. If you find use for it, dont let it stop you.

 

[anthony000]

I love all us Docs finally coming out of our hiding places and having conversation. Tis beautiful.

 

[Dogysamich]

hey that's you guys. We've been here. I remember way back when this thread was the "Doc in Teams" thread. XD

You new doc whippersnappers coming outta nowhere and everything. *puts on some old records*.

*looks at clock*
It's 3AM and im trying to come up with new Talim tech traps. I mean i just "evolved her metagame" some, but this is dumb. I need to go to bed.

BUT SHE'S SO CUUUUUUUTE

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Do you ever wonder if discussion boards are bad for the metagame? Don't get me wrong, it's good to help people and all, but the same information gets recycled over and over again, and the metagame doesn't advance.

I dunno, 'swhy I don't go on Fox boards. I wanna play my own way.

 

[metashinryu]

Do you ever wonder if discussion boards are bad for the metagame? Don't get me wrong, it's good to help people and all, but the same information gets recycled over and over again, and the metagame doesn't advance.

I dunno, 'swhy I don't go on Fox boards. I wanna play my own way.

yeah i hate when the people say *thats not right because blah blah blah...* and doesnt try new stuff, i personally want to say gtfo is my style u dont like it? go to ****

 

[Desh]

You little ****s need to go back into hiding !!!!! D: so much reading >=[ lol jk this is win ! Theres so many lurkers :0

 

[St. Viers]

Um, discussion boards can slow down the metagame, but only if that's because they decide that there is only one way to do things. Luckily, doc doesn't really have a defined way to play, meaning we're all still experimenting.

re: dash attack as edgeguard. I use it when I'm at the wrong place to cape. dash attack-> uptilt leads to great, easy gimpy fun.

 

[Desh]

Lol someone should do up like,
a doc basics, video series LOL.

ep 1.
movement
ep 2.
basic edge gaurds
ep 3.
getting the grab
ep 4.
out of the grab and into the kobe
ep 5.
advanced edge gaurding
ep 6.
recovery
ep7.
loloolol you get the idea,
XD
those are all off the top of my head.
although it isnt necessary , it would be amusing LOL =D

Maybe if im bored, and need something useless to be productive.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I used to post in these boards a lot when I was still chris7x

I made a new account for obvious reasons, my nametag changed

And yeah some updated doc basics videos would be really nice, but time consuming to make since you would really need to dumb it down and explain the process for people trying to pick up doc

 

[otg]

Um, discussion boards can slow down the metagame, but only if that's because they decide that there is only one way to do things. Luckily, doc doesn't really have a defined way to play, meaning we're all still experimenting.

re: dash attack as edgeguard. I use it when I'm at the wrong place to cape. dash attack-> uptilt leads to great, easy gimpy fun.

This, first of all Dash attack -> utilt is my **** in general besides just edgeguarding (never thought to do that). But in general you are right, there is no right or wrong way to do things with Doc because we've never had a 'best Doc' to show us the best ideas and what not. There are a few things that are just common sense that you should do just for the sheer sake of not losing, like Uair->dsmash, free cgs where they apply, and bair edgeguards, but that doesn't mean it's the only option you can do.

All the Doc's have their own styles, so I would say any information that is shared here can just help people think about different ideas and implement them into their own strategies. We ain't the Falco/Fox/Marth boards where literally playstyles are copy and paste.

 

[Dogysamich]

We ain't the Falco/Fox/Marth boards where literally playstyles are copy and paste.

Only reason that is is because doc's dont win. Same thing with every other character that doesnt win and does have a cookie cutter style, it's cause they dont win. That's ALWAYS how it is.

The funny thing is, it's always the people trying to rise up that cookie cut. If you ever stop and look, the people on the top never play the same. They may play the matchup the same (as is the case of Ken + M2K vs puff, for example), but their playstyle is never the same, even if they play the same character. (I mean, lambchops taught shizwiz how to play, and I mean there are night-and-day differences between both of them)

Just wait until somebody starts winning with another character (if that happens), you'll see a baker's dozen so **** fast it wont even be funny.

__

The question will be will people be able to copy it? And more-often-than-not, the answer is no. That's because people dont understand that there's basically no way to literally copy somebody's style and make it work. For that to happen, they have to think, act, and play like the person they're copying.

... distraction johns, i quit. I'll keep goin on later if somebody cares. >.>
​

 

[Vulcan55]

Uair->dsmash

common sense

>.>



:C



Now you're makin' me feel bad...