Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[metashinryu]

doc has throw fsmash, mario has throw usmash(i think)

 

[Dogysamich]

if you're talking about chaingrab enders, those are the same, and no they dont kill without bad di. They wont kill unless somebody falls into it

(which... oof.)

 

[metashinryu]

but docs actually kills regardless of di?

 

[Shroomed]

mario can dthrow > fsmash quite a few chars cuz of the range of it

dthrow fsmash on spacies at around 120

i think mario's only real disadvantage is lack of killing power

although doc's bair is plenty better for edgeguarding
mario's bair has a slight vertical angle to it, while docs is like all horizontal

although both characters suck in comparison to fox

question: what does doc do vs super technical foxes

i played lucky in a tournament on sat and it's kinda jus shield pressure w/o messing up until my shields about to break and i have to roll......if i upb outta shield, if it does the hits where he goes straight up he jus comes down and hits me sigh

i got 2 stocked twice and im mad how do i win vs super ultra technical foxes?

 

[4Serial]

become an ultra technical doc and up+b cancel out of shield so he can't punish you

 

[Shroomed]

that's actually EXACTLY what i thought of learning to do at first

then i thought, do i really have to work THAT hard to beat someone good with a good character?

now i realize, yes i do

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think you can grab most shield pressure techs, unless they're multishines. Just hafta time 'em right.

Or wavedash out of shield?

 

[Shroomed]

if i wavedash outta my shield he jus strolls on over and starts it all over again

i try throwin pills but fox is too fast
that's the only fox that's ***** me so far

i was doin better vs Mango's fox than lucky's

 

[Dogysamich]

question: what does doc do vs super technical foxes

i played lucky in a tournament on sat and it's kinda jus shield pressure w/o messing up until my shields about to break and i have to roll......if i upb outta shield, if it does the hits where he goes straight up he jus comes down and hits me sigh

i got 2 stocked twice and im mad how do i win vs super ultra technical foxes?

Dont stand next to them, if you're in their jump arc be ready to throw out an u.tilt/u.smash/f.tilt/f.smash/grab to stop their approaches. You have to look for stuff like wavedashes, ground attacks, and any kinda blocking defense (shield, spotdodge, roll), and punish those. Everything else he can do, which is aerials, evasion, and zoning (which outta be with aerials), is pretty safe. If you can call him jumping, you can try to jump before him and cut him off (with anything except for a f.air, really), or just keep yourself spaced out and punish bad spacing (jump out and f.air, jump out DJ over him and do something, wavedash back when he jumps, etc).

Get your grab and milk it for all it's worth. Get em off the stage. All the tech skill in the world doesnt mean **** when fox has to recover.

It's not easy, but it's not impossible. And that's not a "doc fanboy" thing, that's "if it's impossible, melee is a piece of trash game" kinda thing.

 

[metashinryu]

mario can dthrow > fsmash quite a few chars cuz of the range of it

dthrow fsmash on spacies at around 120

i think mario's only real disadvantage is lack of killing power

although doc's bair is plenty better for edgeguarding
mario's bair has a slight vertical angle to it, while docs is like all horizontal

although both characters suck in comparison to fox

question: what does doc do vs super technical foxes

i played lucky in a tournament on sat and it's kinda jus shield pressure w/o messing up until my shields about to break and i have to roll......if i upb outta shield, if it does the hits where he goes straight up he jus comes down and hits me sigh

i got 2 stocked twice and im mad how do i win vs super ultra technical foxes?

backthrow bair cape i kno is dirty but wtf...

 

[eighteenspikes]

you gotta fall through platforms after an up b to get away from fox. if you're taking a techy fox to FD then wtf are you doing man lol

HOW TO BEAT TECHY FOX: STEP 1: get a lucky random. If you get pokemon stadium or fd or battlefield, lol that's probably the set right there. DL64>Yoshis>FOD. Then go for lots of grab combos and gimps.
STEP 2: If you win, get your *** ***** somewhere gay. Stadium, FD, Corneria, w/e. If you lost game 1 then you will prob lose the set
STEP 3: Have your own ******* counterpick ready for game 3. My fav is MK2.

I played Kels in a tourney last week (this kels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTdWJEyCmA&feature=related ) and the random was FD, and I got 2 stocked there. I took him to MK2 and 3 stocked him. No joke. Then he took me to corneria and took a dump on my face If I had a better random, I could have maybe, MAYBE cheaped him out enough times to somehow win the set. If a fox knows the matchup you're probably screwed, most of the foxes I beat I have to rely on them not knowing how to DI out of combos, and then calling their recovery.

 

[St. Viers]

Shielding against fox is a kinda last ditch attempt in my book. If they approach using aerials (most foxes I know), just kinda uptilt them, or dash away. Both of those are better than getting stuck in your shield. If they approach on ground, get above them with d-airs, I guess, or SH pill safely (as they can kinda run under full jumped pills no problem)

Yeah, if you get a grab, do something with it--meaning unless your stuck in the center of the stage, there's no real need to chaingrab--I usually just chaingrab to get in a better position, rather than do damage. I'm sure dogy has somewhere a list of things you can do from grabs on spacies. If worst comes to works, just throw them off the ledge and gimp them (uptilt, ftilt, n-air, cape, b-air ^____^)

EDIT: take my advice with a grain of salt--I've only played like 2 good foxes before, and although I do better than I do against other top chars, it's not like I know what I'm talking about...

 

[Blistering Speed]

Everything but multishines are shieldgrabbable. Learning the timing is very difficult and involves great reactionary and observational skills, but it's doable. Watch some of SS's shieldgrabs for a good example.

 

[Vulcan55]

I wish MKII was CP legal here in WA.
:C

 

[ranmaru]

become an ultra technical doc and up+b cancel out of shield so he can't punish you

I did that, now I have to practice doing that out of shield and actually getting him lol.

But doc is not about being technical, its about being smart and observing [and mindGAEMZ]. (which hopefully I can get better at)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Everything but multishines are shieldgrabbable. Learning the timing is very difficult and involves great reactionary and observational skills, but it's doable. Watch some of SS's shieldgrabs for a good example.

I don't think this is true.

 

[St. Viers]

Everything but multishines are shieldgrabbable. Learning the timing is very difficult and involves great reactionary and observational skills, but it's doable. Watch some of SS's shieldgrabs for a good example.

wait, you can shieldgrab fox before he shines after n-air and d-air?

 

[Blistering Speed]

Sorry, poor wording, I was talking about continuous pillaring, certain stages of it are unshieldgrabbable. Ignore mee.

 

[anthony000]

I haven't really played any super beastly foxes before, but like people have already said, use Doc's quickest attacks(utilt, ftilt, jab) to keep them away from you, and once you grab them, it should end quickly.

 

[Dogysamich]

I was driving in the car today and realized my ******** *** really did say mario cant kill from his throw, implying that he could never do it.

I meant to say that it's a looooooong **** time before he can do it (which we already pointed out).

___

MKII. Man 18s, i dont know what's up with you and stage. I still hate that ****. XD I mean, it's not even legal here usually but ****.

and I seriously dont see how PS and FD are bad stages compared to **** like FoD. I say that and I'm letting BF YS and DL64 slide even though platforms are my ****ing kyrponite.

___

And on that note, im gunna go **** around with some ideas for chaingrabbing and see if i cant find dumb ****.

___

 

[Desh]

But doc is not about being technical, its about being smart and observing [and mindGAEMZ]. (which hopefully I can get better at)

you need to be technically consistent with your character before anything else.
You can know what to do in every situation XP
but if you arent technically consistent you're just screwing yourself over.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You can grab Fox after a shielded dair, before the shine. Tight timing, but it's possible.

After the shine, you should be able to grab him if he attempts another aerial, unless he jump cancels the shine into a grab. If that happens... well... stop shielding, I guess.

 

[Desh]

yeah i still stay fox is an easy *** match up.
im not saying like, oooo any doc can beat any fox, cuz obviously that isnt true,

im saying fox vs doc, doc wins it.
I strongly believe fox is at a dissadvantage >_>

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Desh, you crazy.

 

[Desh]

Probably yeah.

 

[otg]

although doc's bair is plenty better for edgeguarding
mario's bair has a slight vertical angle to it, while docs is like all horizontal

I think you got this backwards. Mario's bair is all horizontal, Doc's sends people down at an angle which is why it's better for edgeguarding.

Also Desh, you are ******** lol.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Mario's bair sends slightly upwards...

 

[Desh]

lalalalalal fox is an easy match up lalalalalala
>=]
LOL.
idk. preference i guess =D
i look forward to spacies in tourny x]

 

[Vulcan55]

yeah i still stay fox is an easy *** match up.
im not saying like, oooo any doc can beat any fox, cuz obviously that isnt true,

im saying fox vs doc, doc wins it.
I strongly believe fox is at a dissadvantage >_>

Well, Doc is top tier. What would you expect?

 

[anthony000]

Soooo.... No one's posted in 2 days.

 

[:mad:]

Some of us forget this thread exists...

 

[Dogysamich]

i dont look in the forum unless there's a new post.

I mean, Im supposed to be thumbing around all of them, so I just go where there are new posts.

Gotta give me a reason to LURK.

 

[Desh]

Very nice sig dogy.
The avy got quality ***** though D: .
But dam, sexy sig.

I dont know why i didnt go to school today.
I have a feeling im gonna get suspended T_T

 

[otg]

wtf is there to talk about? So how about airline food?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

doc is.... sigh.

edit:
What do you guys do against jiggs.

I spam alot of fair lol. some FH dairs and I never stay in my sheild. But I've only played one jiggs player before so I don't really know this match up.

 

[Dogysamich]

Why doc counters jiggly::


Originally Posted by MaNg0
doc is mad gay its like
pill pill pill ... 20 damage
nair or something
grab KOBE
...
Switch 2 falco
^_^

Seriously. That's all you really need.

Jiggs absolutely hates the match. Jiggs CANT ledgecamp. Doc CAN defend himself on recovery. Doc is one of the 3 characters that severly punish a missed rest (other 2 being mario and fox).

I mean, i dont even need a green wall of text for this matchup, cause this is exactly what im going to tell you.

 

[otg]

- Spam pills always and never approach her.
- Don't stay in your shield alot unless you want her to **** you, and if she does start ****** your ****, don't approach towards her.
- More Pills

She gets in close:
- Is she at killing percent?
*yes
- dthrow->fair if she is at low percent, dsmash is good at high percents, you can try usmash but if you miss you'll get *****, fsmash to trade hits isn't a bad idea. Spamming fair? W'e, it might work who knows.
*no
- then get her the **** away from you and keep spamming. Bair and nair are good keep away moves, spaced fairs to try and threaten her, I actually like caping her if she comes in with an attack cause it sends her high and away and does like 10+%
- spam more pills
- mix up your recovery, and try not to tornado unless you are crazy far out and she can't punish you.
- Up B is your secret weapon for low % KO's and keep away tactics.

tldr version; spam pills, don't let her get close to you and if she does either KO the ***** or just get her away so you can keep spamming. Don't let her pressure your shield, and mix up your recovery.

 

[Dogysamich]

Honest question; what does tldr stand for?

 

[ranmaru]

Haha I don't know, I never asked. xD

 

[otg]

I thought it stood for "too long, didn't read" or something of that sort. So it's pretty much just an abstract of the matchup.