Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Scidadle]

Shroomed since you seem good at the sheik MU what tips do you have?

 

[KirbyKaze]

D-smash her for something bad and then tech chase grab or more d-smash. Hit her offstage, force her to poof onto the level, and then maim her. Play ground mostly.

 

[Gea]

Learn your CC %s for sure, learn how to react to your shield getting ftilted/grabbed and learn how to force them onstage when recovering. You actually have some pretty good options out of dthrow as well, and if you practice it so you never drop them and choose correctly it can add up pretty quickly. If the sheik isn't camping you it isn't too hard to score a grab compared to say, spacies.

MU is x100000 easier if the other player doesn't react correctly to your jabs.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Always approach with a pill if you have the space. There's really no reason not to.

On the other hand, don't feel like you have to necessarily approach 24/7 (especially if you have the lead). As Doc, you don't have a particularly good way of getting through the Sheik needle/aerial wall. However, she also doesn't have a great way of breaking through your own wall of spaced bairs and pills.

Edit: Also, I might need someone to test this for me, but I believe dash attack (if spaced correctly) will hit Sheik through her falling fair.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think Doc can approach her. Not enough priority on Nair and the slow movement is easy to work around. I think grounded poke-counterpoke is way better. I guess you could follow a pill on the ground though but I view that as closer to what Peach and ICs do (zoning). Ultimately tomato tomatto but I don't think a jump in accomplishes him much in a general sense. Used sparingly and appropriately it can be a swag mixup though.

I'm basing this off my games vs Shroomed so the flaw in this analysis might be that most Sheiks suck and lose to things that perplex me.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I don't think Doc can approach her. Not enough priority on Nair and the slow movement is easy to work around. I think grounded poke-counterpoke is way better. I guess you could follow a pill on the ground though but I view that as closer to what Peach and ICs do (zoning). Ultimately tomato tomatto but I don't think a jump in accomplishes him much in a general sense. Used sparingly and appropriately it can be a swag mixup though.

I'm basing this off my games vs Shroomed so the flaw in this analysis might be that most Sheiks suck and lose to things that perplex me.

Doc has to get a hard read and take a risk to get in, which is near impossible against sheik.

 

[Gea]

If the sheik doesn't jump it really reduces your options, yeah

 

[Scidadle]

Also I need to beat technical fox's. How too?

Being from FL it's like every other tournament player is just a technical spacey player.

 

[Max?]

Went to a local tourney in NYC today. Learned that Dsmash is probably the only move Doc needs

Thanks DJ

 

[iRobinhoood]

It drops him so low to the ground. It's not fair = (

 

[Griffard]

Repped the doctor all day today at a local (regional?) tournament. My first tournament going Doc and only my third ever. Went 2-2, lost a really tight set to a Marth in three games and then some pretty close games to a technical (ish) fox 0-2. Beat both of those players afterwards in a bunch of friendlies, so feeling good about my doc overall, and I am learning pretty fast and improving a lot in just how I'm playing melee overall. Gotta work on my grab game a ton and movement too. Excited for the future and to show what Doc can do!

 

[boss8]

good stuff man.....glad to see more doc hype....

loool also if dajuan can jus find a way to do docs down b recovery,he'd live ALOT longer xD

also does anyone know if docs utilt trade/beats out shieks fair? depending on spacing obv..

 

[Scidadle]

I just can't get the down-b. I'm so bad at mashing.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I just can't get the down-b. I'm so bad at mashing.

Don't pick up Luigi.

Also his mash isn't that great for recovery. If anything I use it as soon as possible to drift a little closer to the stage before using my double jump.

 

[Griffard]

Don't pick up Luigi.

Also his mash isn't that great for recovery. If anything I use it as soon as possible to drift a little closer to the stage before using my double jump.

It's okay if you use it for that, but I think it's best use is to make people get off the ledge before your Up-B. Saw Boss doing that a lot in his latest videos (thanks dude) and it's been working out great for me.

 

[boss8]

It's okay if you use it for that, but I think it's best use is to make people get off the ledge before your Up-B. Saw Boss doing that a lot in his latest videos (thanks dude) and it's been working out great for me.

yea,ur suppose to DI.....then use ur max height nado....

pocket ur double jump for later....

 

[Vyke]

Use ellipses for major emphasis...

More than three periods to annoy you.......

 

[boss8]

i play mario party,so ma button mashing skillz are immaculate....

 

[Scidadle]

I've never felt so dedicated to improve as I recently have. Hopefully can get some top 10 tournament placings in 2013 :D

 

[iRobinhoood]

It's okay if you use it for that, but I think it's best use is to make people get off the ledge before your Up-B. Saw Boss doing that a lot in his latest videos (thanks dude) and it's been working out great for me.

If it works for you don't fix it for anyone, even me. I was recently watching some Boss play and his use of the down B. Don't get me wrong it's a good mixup and can get your opponent off the ledge but I've seen it fail against opponents anticipating it and simply resetting their invincibility by re-grabbing the ledge.

 

[Griffard]

Okay, how the **** do you beat Peach? Lost a MM to my friend's janky Peach yesterday, and I've never been so salty in my whole life.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I've come to realize most Peach's try to CC everything so Docs jab game in this matchup can be a b****. I still use it as a mixup though in said matchup. Against Peach I've learned to just rack up damage as much as possible without getting hit. It's tough to combo her IMO so get her up to higher percents and try to land a dunk.

I've also had some success with bair edgeguards after you've taken her second jump away.

 

[Griffard]

I've come to realize most Peach's try to CC everything so Docs jab game in this matchup can be a b****. I still use it as a mixup though in said matchup. Against Peach I've learned to just rack up damage as much as possible without getting hit. It's tough to combo her IMO so get her up to higher percents and try to land a dunk.

I've also had some success with bair edgeguards after you've taken her second jump away.

I mean that's pretty much my basic strategy. I just feel like messing up equals auto-destruction. I just want a more efficient plan then "run away and pill/d-air until you maybe get a random dunk/jab to d-smash at high percents" which is currently my (failing) strategy.

 

[boss8]

peach is free...

 

[Shroomed]

peach is free...

When you say things like this, it would benefit everyone if you expanded on it.

I'll type up a few things on peach a bit later.

 

[boss8]

yea i thought about it.....but i was too lazy xD

maybe that comment wasn't needed then....

 

[VGmasta]

I've never felt so dedicated to improve as I recently have. Hopefully can get some top 10 tournament placings in 2013 :D

That's the spirit Sciddy!

peach is free...

What the hell are you talkin' about?!?!

When you say things like this, it would benefit everyone if you expanded on it.

I'll type up a few things on peach a bit later.

Yes please. I pretty much agree with almost everything Dogy posted in that outlook guide he made.

 

[Griffard]

Yo Boss I saw you tear up that Peach EPsilon on Youtube, but tbh he didn't look that good. I'll go back and analyze that video and check some Shroomed Peach videos too, but do you have any tips? Or just, what's going through your head when you know you're about to play a (decent) Peach player in a game that matters somewhat? Thanks in advance.

 

[boss8]

well i mean.....

i have alot of peach experience....

but as far as playing armada,he destroyed me....but after playing armada,every other peach jus seems like nothing...

 

[Griffard]

I mean I normally beat Peach with Doc and the particular Peach who just shoved my **** in I normally thrash too. Is there anything you would want to add though? lol I'm just soooo salty I want to never lose to Peach again.

 

[boss8]

I mean I normally beat Peach with Doc and the particular Peach who just shoved my **** in I normally thrash too. Is there anything you would want to add though? lol I'm just soooo salty I want to never lose to Peach again.

i jus cape most of peaches approaches,and pill her at a distance....

at low% if u dthrow peach,chances are they are gonna nair....shield punish...

u gotta kinda weave around peach,sneak in a few hits/grabs....until then doc is cool wit playing the range game....avoiding hitting her shield,(unless ur spacing is good)

and u can cape peaches recovery if she initiates it from low,stunning her,sending her into the falling animation...

u can also use docs movement to kinda bait peach to do some things...

 

[Frisbie]

Dthrow->dunk at 90ish%

Don't underestimate her dash attack, it comes out quick and can mess you up.

Cape turnips and they'll go right back at her.

Your dsmash outranges hers. Yes I am absolutely certain.

When she's floating, try to get under her and uair, utilt, crouch, etc. Be careful cause she can hit you out of your combos pretty easily.

This is just general stuff obviously, is there anything in particular that this peach is doing that you can't get around?

 

[Shroomed]

If Peach upB's high and tries to float down and sweetspot the ledge, you can cape her and forward smash the other direction and it will hit.

 

[GTZ]

good advice guys thanx , I actually have more trou7ble with competitive peach play styles.. sheik also at times..

 

[SmashMac]

good advice guys thanx , I actually have more trou7ble with competitive peach play styles.. sheik also at times..

Full hop dair, mix up your recoveries, reverse cape turnip mindgames (nice when she has a stitch face out), cape her when she upBs from below, dthrow fair combo at around 85 - 95%, spaced nairs, utilts and ftilts to control space, pill zoning, etc. She's not hard once you get used to the matchup. Once you notice them spamming dsmash more than usual, this just means you've broken into their mind and they're panicking. It's pretty easy from here on out as you just phish them with feints, maneuvering around them as to attack in an unorthodox fashion. Don't be too systematic in this matchup either though, as to always attempt things that have worked in the past. This will make you too predictable, and Peach does have some pretty good punishes against Doc. Be careful with your grabs. There's much more on this matchup that could be said but these are some of the important ones that come to mind.

 

[Griffard]

I think my big problem with this matchup was just doing the same **** again and again. I need to mix it up, because I KNOW how to beat Peach, and all these tips helped, but I was honestly doing pretty much all of this already. Just need to play my game, and confidently. Thanks for the help.

 

[Griffard]

So I'll start with good news: pretty much figured out my friend's super annoying Peach, 3 stocked it easily last time we played.

Went to a smashfest/small tournament yesterday and really really underperformed. Lost a set to my friend who I play and beat most of the time, lost to a dude I wreck in friendlies all the time, then just was discouraged and lost another set to a Fox that I thought was easily winnable (round robin style, so not double elim). I also went Pika for 2 sets and Zelda for 1 which was okay, I guess, but I should have just kept my Doc mojo flowing because it's really easy for me to get out of the right frame of mind to dunk on faces.

I think a big aspect is just being uncomfortable with the stress level of a tournament situation where there is slightly more on the line than just a casual set of games. This was only my 4th tournament ever, and second in the last year, so I'm definitely not totally familiar with getting calm and doing work as usual when it matters more to do so. I'm pretty positive I'm going to stay with my dude Doc moving forward, I just need to go straight Doc on tournament days so I can keep him warm.

Anywho, at least I didn't have problems with certain matchups really (besides patient Samus, which I think Doc can win pretty easily by just being patient back/rushing when appropriate). Trying to incorporate that SH b-air waveland into actual gameplay, that **** is too nice. Sorry for tl;dr

 

[Max?]

Doc ***** Samus. Good **** on your progress tho. Keep that swag rolling and just have fun

 

[Griffard]

Thanks man. Yeah I just need to not allow myself to get too stressed by losses or playing worse than I think I'm capable.

The deal with this Samus player was he was just eerily calm.. haha you know what I mean? Like just casually throwing out f-tilts, really good spacer. Still beat him in our set though

 

[poega]

Dthrow->dunk at 90ish%

Don't underestimate her dash attack, it comes out quick and can mess you up.

Cape turnips and they'll go right back at her.

Your dsmash outranges hers. Yes I am absolutely certain.

When she's floating, try to get under her and uair, utilt, crouch, etc. Be careful cause she can hit you out of your combos pretty easily.

This is just general stuff obviously, is there anything in particular that this peach is doing that you can't get around?

at 90% you will have to dodge her nair and ****, 128% is mega guaranteed in my experience.