Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Gea]

"LOL QUIT JOHNING ABOUT NOT GETTING LAID. SHE WOULD JV 5 STOCK YOU ANYWAYS AMIRITE?? SMASH BROS??"

Then I'll like my own post like a hoss.

 

[boss8]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/384079048275541/

 

[Max?]

It's a secret group, invite only. Gea, you should PM me your FB info if you have one

 

[Shroomed]

I'm DaJuan McDaniel on facebook.

If I could dthrow fair floaties I'd **** so much harder.

 

[Deleted member]

i will outplace shroomed at nwmanifest because im gunna beat his bich azzz twice in tourney 1st place me 2nd place him

 

[Frisbie]

Alex Frisbie

 

[Shroomed]

i will outplace shroomed at nwmanifest because im gunna beat his bich azzz twice in tourney 1st place me 2nd place him

Johnny, I'm gonna **** you up like I did at the Apex hotel room tournament.

I'll whip out my Marth too.

 

[poega]

I'm DaJuan McDaniel on facebook.

If I could dthrow fair floaties I'd **** so much harder.

True and thats kinda why I made the post, like is it impossible for doc or does shroomed just not do it. Anyways thx for replies everyone.

 

[Max?]

Just be faster. **** works. The only characters where dthrow -> fair doesn't work on EVER in my experience are Samus and Luigi.

 

[St. Viers]

Name for fb group thing

Spoiler

Nicholas Kerpan, Umass Boston

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

idk why you make the group ultra private... just make it closed but searchable and link here.

 

[poega]

We must avoid impostors at all costs

 

[Max?]

It's better it stays private imo.

 

[VGmasta]

Ha, the facebook group is cool. I don't think you can get infracted in there, lol. Now I can say what I truly feel about those ******** stages like Kongo Jungle and why I always "B-A-N" that stage, lol.

 

[Max?]

Its sad because this thread more or less just became obsolete unless we have fake punk *** ***** *** ***** *****s coming in here that don't main doc and asking for advice/*****ing about losing to Doc players

 

[Shroomed]

Facebook will become the new tool for all specific forum discussions soon enough.

 

[Niko45]

Ha, the facebook group is cool. I don't think you can get infracted in there, lol. Now I can say what I truly feel about those ******** stages like Kongo Jungle and why I always "B-A-N" that stage, lol.

lol that's mad funny

I think facebook is largely responsible for why discussion on smashboards in general is noticeably terrible in more recent times.

 

[Frisbie]

my name's Alex Frisbie on facebook

 

[VGmasta]

Its sad because this thread more or less just became obsolete unless we have fake punk *** ***** *** ***** *****s coming in here that don't main doc and asking for advice/*****ing about losing to Doc players

Well that's pretty much what this thread was already becoming anyway. This thread is only active now whenever Shroomed (or OTG) does some amazing job in tourney. Then a bunch of random people who've never seen Doc at high level play will decide that Doc is good based on Shroomed's (or OTG's) performance and try him out. Those randoms start asking questions like "When does d-throw -> f-air work?" and "How long does the chaingrab work on X character?".

The only other time the thread is active, is whenever the tournament stage list changes, and then we start a discussion on counterpicks.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm DaJuan McDaniel on facebook.

If I could dthrow fair floaties I'd **** so much harder.

You'd probably improve by like 30% or another arbitrary number in those MUs.

 

[Max?]

Well that's pretty much what this thread was already becoming anyway. This thread is only active now whenever Shroomed (or OTG) does some amazing job in tourney. Then a bunch of random people who've never seen Doc at high level play will decide that Doc is good based on Shroomed's (or OTG's) performance and try him out. Those randoms start asking questions like "When does d-throw -> f-air work?" and "How long does the chaingrab work on X character?".

The only other time the thread is active, is whenever the tournament stage list changes, and then we start a discussion on counterpicks.

LOL

I like how I'm in quotes or whatever. It's true tho, it's mostly Shroomed ******. I only do something impressive once a month or so. Hoping to change that this year tho! I've been taking some really big steps to improve my life outside of melee, and two bigs one have been playing melee drastically less and becoming sober (over a month now). I feel like my game is way more focused and for once (and most importantly), I find it fun again.

Going to a tourney today, let's see how it goes.

/inb49thplace

 

[KirbyKaze]

IIRC you seem okay vs spacies. Do you keep getting Sheiks or something?

 

[Battlecow]

OTG?

Sober?

What is this I don't even

Goodonya though, dude.

 

[Max?]

IIRC you seem okay vs spacies. Do you keep getting Sheiks or something?

I just lose to people who are better than me, and yeah I'm pretty bad vs. Sheik tho I'm getting better at it. My best matchups are Falco, Falcon and Marth. Oh, and then a bunch of random mid tiers, I love fighting janky matchups.

 

[KirbyKaze]

What are you finding rough about Sheik?

 

[_Rocky_]

Well that's pretty much what this thread was already becoming anyway. This thread is only active now whenever Shroomed (or OTG) does some amazing job in tourney.

For once I think you guys should set your sights on Europe actually lol. Dave has a sick doc and only loses to amsah/adam/remen/zgetto pretty much while still taking games.

/hyping Europe

 

[Max?]

What are you finding rough about Sheik?

She hits me with stuff and I die.

I got 2nd place at HoG. I beat KevinM, Zoso (he went Sheik), Swiftbass and Thorn in winners to advance to GF. I 3-0ed Thorn in WF. Then I lost to him twice in GF, 3-1 both times. I beat him game 1 of both sets and then lost 3 in a row. Got a lot of work to do, but I def made a big mark in this new region. Feels good to come back after how bummed I was at Apex.

 

[Gea]

Freakin' nice

 

[ChillPill]

Friends keep ****** me with Falco, Sheik, and Marth. The match-ups aren't in favor. Specifically - I need to know how to approach to Falco or if I can't really approach then how do i defend myself. Usually when I cape his shLazers he waits till i mess up then ***** me with basic shine-down air. : / its frustrating and I get so impatient I get ****ed up because I can't think.

 

[ranmaru]

Well, don't rely on the cape to be the anti-thesis to Falco. You might also forget that he ***** you when he COMES IN.

Meaning, it isn't just the lasers that **** us up. It's his moves. Observe them, and try to find a way around them.

You'll have to be more specific about Sheik and marth.

 

[ChillPill]

Meaning, it isn't just the lasers that **** us up. It's his moves. Observe them, and try to find a way around them.

You'll have to be more specific about Sheik and marth.

Avoiding Sheiks and marths grabs, I know you can pill marth but it is almost completely relient on mind gaming your opponent. Maybe a basic tip of mind game pill? Idk, I apologize for my ignorance due to the fact that I am now learning this game in an advanced meta game...
Anyways i really do not know how to beat a sheik or marth regardless. I mean grab to kobi but that is much more challenging than shroomed makes it . and tilting is a ***** to get off on a character that runs around you. (**** SHIEKS Dash attack!!!)

Majority of the time my friends cover all options of countering them resulting me to get "Sticky fingered" and lose control. Its embarrassing that I got beat recently by my friend who just picked up sheik a second ago and won because the character. I hate to "jon" but It seems there is no way to beat them.

Basics : I need to work on wave dashing and its momentum to combo people. (wd back air)
Obv. - match-ups (Top tiers, welcome to michigan lmao)

 

[ranmaru]

Don't worry, you are new. : D

You can't be good at a matchup if all you know is 'grab to kobi'. That's doc killing move, that's all.

I really suggest you read the matchup guides for shiek, marth, and falco.

Example. You can't expect to beat marth by just pilling. It's good to pill to control space, but that's it. You have to kind of... weave into Marth's chest space and hug him. *grab* Meaning, you have to bait Marth into mis-hitting, because his attacks force him to commit. Meaning, if he forward smashes, he really has to wait until it's finished to do anything else. You have to take advantage of this in that matchup. It's not easy. lolz.

You have to be patient against marth. If you are risky and carefree like me, you'll get poked up the butt. A MILLION TIMES.

Shiek. Yeah. She's a *****. Sheik's moves combo into everything. You have to learn that %100 gayness towards Sheik is A-OK! I also try not to be in the air too much. That slap HURTS. OW. You really have to be on point against her, and you can't make any mistakes.

And yes, it's easier for people to **** you with sheik even if they just picked her up, at your skill level. I DEFF suggest you read the Sheik matchup. (Also remember you can chain grab her to %40)

 

[ChillPill]

I feel that the match-ups on hear may not really work. Mainly against falco. (It is almost like it pats you on the back and "wishes you best of luck witha "your ****ed smile".) Heh...

It is freaking hard to adapt to people who just don't make any mistakes with falcc, marth, sheik.

Doc is just all about movement control because he is regularly gaped w/o speed. The more you wd the more momentum and the more you pill while approach will help you but in some cases (such as falco) there really isn't much hope... Ex. Mang0 vs Shroomed.

Falco's always seem to preasure us to dodge role. They find your weakness the quickest way. Fking ShL!
Pill - can't do **** to Falco .
Best of luck i geuss is to just gain exp more than knowledge as for now on the high tiers.
I really do not know how to combo a falco either. I mean I freaking **** my pants if I can get more than a 2 hit consecutive comb. Nair wd to downsmash.
Btw do you jab downsmash?

 

[ranmaru]

lol. Really? What do you think didn't work with the Flaco guide?

Well, think of it like this. It's freaking hard to LIVE against marth, falco, and sheik if YOU MAKE ANY MISTAKES. LOL. Don't make mistakes. You can make 1 mistake, and be punished most likely, and Sheik can make like 10 and you might punish one of em. I don't know if that is an accurate ratio, but it's like that.

yeah deff about moving. But it's not just wavedash, it's also dash dance too. But deff practice that WD, it's important.

Falco can **** your dodge roll. I think you really have to space yourself pretty well against spacies, because they can really come in a rapid burst, so if you are just rolling you might not react fast enough.

Although you aren't that good at wd'sing, you can still maneuver around him. Use the platforms to get around his lasers, and try to fall on top of him with a nair.

Well they can, they just aren't as fast as his lasers. They deal 8 damage, so even hitting him once with one is damn good! So just pill from platforms. use them to the advantage.

Well, gotta try chain grabbing them. You can up throw chain grab them. Doc doesn't have alot of comboz, you just gotta grab. Grab.

Like for me it's grab > uthrow > grab > something > upsmash maybe > bair. :D

Anyways, you always have to remember one thing. You have to get Falco off the stage. Cuz you can gimp him. He's damn good on stage, but not as good off stage. But his recovery is still gud.

Yeah I jab dsmash, but I try not to spam it. :3

 

[St. Viers]

"I feel that the match-ups on hear may not really work. Mainly against falco. (It is almost like it pats you on the back and "wishes you best of luck witha "your ****ed smile".) Heh...

It is freaking hard to adapt to people who just don't make any mistakes with falcc, marth, sheik.

Doc is just all about movement control because he is regularly gaped w/o speed. The more you wd the more momentum and the more you pill while approach will help you but in some cases (such as falco) there really isn't much hope... Ex. Mang0 vs Shroomed.

Falco's always seem to preasure us to dodge role. They find your weakness the quickest way. Fking ShL!
Pill - can't do **** to Falco .
Best of luck i geuss is to just gain exp more than knowledge as for now on the high tiers.
I really do not know how to combo a falco either. I mean I freaking **** my pants if I can get more than a 2 hit consecutive comb. Nair wd to downsmash.
Btw do you jab downsmash?"

Pills are very important against falco! if they are sh lazering, just full jump->pill if they are far away. If they approach with shl, you need to not turtle up and shield right away. It would be better to hit them outta their jump if they get to close, or to keep trying to get over the lasers if they are staying away.

Comboing falco is basically doing anything where you can follow up with a grab (or get them off stage). So try and just knock them down and techchase as a matter of last resort, or try and read an approach and get them when they whiff.

As for jab->d-smash, you really need to mix it up between jab->grab, jab->down smash, double jab, or just jab->run away. If they know that you are gonna jab->d-smash, they just crouchcancel and punish everytime, or shield and then punish. If you always jab->grab, you'll get punished because the lag from jabbing to too great. Double jab, and jabbing into waiting (dash dance away, etc) are good for keeping them guessing, and especially if they predict and cc your jab, the 3 hit combo is actually okay at pushing them away.

 

[Max?]

I think I've figured out how to deal with Sheik. Feeling really good about that matchup now. Once I get Peach down it's a wrap

 

[ChillPill]

Does Doc have the worst or if not 2nd worst recovery in the game? ?

I think he would at least be at the bottom of low B tier if he had something along the lines of captains up-B...

Makes me depressed that all i can rely on is breaking my thumb to recover with tap down b...
I really wish i could get that down, its so hard to do.

Thumb muscle work outs?
Tips?
Advice?
Pray? lol.....
Is there any doctor that can cure me? :bbutton:

 

[Max?]

Doc's recovery is NOT the 2nd worst in the game. That is an old misconception. People argue "his recovery is linear, he's dead if he loses his 2nd jump, he has a lot of landing lag if he's forced to UpB onto the stage" etc. Doesn't this apply to a ton of recoveries? Let's look at it's strengths:

Fast, high priority UpB which hits/beats a ton of moves and in combination with his absurd magnet hands, he can recover from very low. Can defend himself on the way back, has the cape to stall, PTP should be used at the very beginning or OCCASIONALLY by the edge to stall if people roll up a little early.

Characters I would argue have worse/equally as bad recoveries:
Ness, Roy, Zelda, Bowser, Falcon?, Ganon?, DK, Luigi, Kirby, Mario, Yoshi?

Falcon and Ganon clearly have jank in their recoveries, but don't they get exploited TERRIBLY? At the end of the day when examining the ability to ACTUALLY make it back to the stage, I think they get ***** just as bad/worse then Doc by certain characters.

Just my opinion. I'm not saying Doc's recovery is amazing, it's not. But to say it's 2nd worst in the game is just down right wrong.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

zeldas recovery is better than you give it credit. Especially when recovering from above the stage and not below.

 

[ChillPill]

Doc's recovery is NOT the 2nd worst in the game. That is an old misconception. People argue "his recovery is linear, he's dead if he loses his 2nd jump, he has a lot of landing lag if he's forced to UpB onto the stage" etc. Doesn't this apply to a ton of recoveries? Let's look at it's strengths:

Fast, high priority UpB which hits/beats a ton of moves and in combination with his absurd magnet hands, he can recover from very low. Can defend himself on the way back, has the cape to stall, PTP should be used at the very beginning or OCCASIONALLY by the edge to stall if people roll up a little early.

Characters I would argue have worse/equally as bad recoveries:
Ness, Roy, Zelda, Bowser, Falcon?, Ganon?, DK, Luigi, Kirby, Mario, Yoshi?

Falcon and Ganon clearly have jank in their recoveries, but don't they get exploited TERRIBLY? At the end of the day when examining the ability to ACTUALLY make it back to the stage, I think they get ***** just as bad/worse then Doc by certain characters.

Just my opinion. I'm not saying Doc's recovery is amazing, it's not. But to say it's 2nd worst in the game is just down right wrong.

...I don't really want to argue with all the other things you just said by comparing his recovery to falcons or copy marth(roy)...
But uhh Doc can get gimped easily on green greens, fd, battle field(not as much as Fd) and almost anywhere else BUT Yoshi's Story.
Verse more sheiks...
Btw after falcon gets hit off the stage and down b's to recover he gains another jump. Argument invalid.
DK - up B's more than half (2/3's?) of Fd... And it has much priority if projectiles hit him...gain up b.
The only thing doc has somthing going for him is pill(does alot!!), cape(which really doesn't do **** but give your enemy more time to think of downsmashing you or fwrd smash or wait n grab or whatever...) possible theory of bairs and then ptp and sweet spot the ledge and hoping you can tech the wall after they hit the **** out of you.
I jon how i can fwrd air a shiek 2 times at 90% on the stage w/o the player having good DI and they're still living....