Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Shake]

What are your thoughts on up-b cancel out of shield when getting shield pressured?

 

[Frisbie]

I'm currently of the opinion that Mario is completely obsolete in comparison to Doc. I'm looking for someone to prove me wrong.

does mango count? lol

 

[Frisbie]

if youre consistent with up b canceling then it's a good mixup i suppose but i think that upsmash out of shield is better because it's easier to be consistent with and easier to follow up. and it can kill/follow to a fair at higher percents

 

[Max?]

Personally, I've never learned UpB cancel. Velocity swears by it, but to each his own.

If you can do it consistently and are confident that it will connect, then go ahead and try. UpB Cancel leaves you on the ground, and in a ton of lag. If you miss you're most likely dead. On stages with platforms you have the option of UpB OOS onto a platform, or falling through one and going to the ground. Just my two cents on the matter.

I would suggest people understand all the options available in dealing with shield pressure. UpB oos, upbcancel, usmash OOS, WD oos, roll, spotdodge, aerial oos are the immediate options that come to mind. Knowing when to do what and when to mix in what are essential. Just requires lots of practice and trial and error. Imo Usmash OOS is better than UpB, simply based on the fact that it's a ton of damage and leads to a bunch of really good follow ups.

 

[Shake]

if youre consistent with up b canceling then it's a good mixup i suppose but i think that upsmash out of shield is better because it's easier to be consistent with and easier to follow up. and it can kill/follow to a fair at higher percents

Good ****. Thanks for spending time answering my question.

 

[ranmaru]

Personally, I've never learned UpB cancel. Velocity swears by it, but to each his own.

If you can do it consistently and are confident that it will connect, then go ahead and try. UpB Cancel leaves you on the ground, and in a ton of lag. If you miss you're most likely dead. On stages with platforms you have the option of UpB OOS onto a platform, or falling through one and going to the ground. Just my two cents on the matter.

I would suggest people understand all the options available in dealing with shield pressure. UpB oos, upbcancel, usmash OOS, WD oos, roll, spotdodge, aerial oos are the immediate options that come to mind. Knowing when to do what and when to mix in what are essential. Just requires lots of practice and trial and error. Imo Usmash OOS is better than UpB, simply based on the fact that it's a ton of damage and leads to a bunch of really good follow ups.

I actually practiced upb oos at Wenbo's house. : D I should practice other things too tho.

*I mean upsmash

 

[Max?]

The way I learned how to Usmash OOS consistently was to just try and throw it out EVERY time. After awhile you get a feel for when it works and when it doesn't

 

[Frisbie]

yeah i used to spam usmash oos all the time, it's kind of funny how that eventually helped me out haha.

@shake anytime. incase you didnt know, an easy way to usmash out of shield is to hit up on the analog stick and then immediately hit up on the cstick afterwards. when you hit up on the analog, it causes you to jump, and if you hit up on the ctsick before you leave the ground, it causes you to do a jump canceled upsmash. this sounds a lot harder than it is, you basically just hit them at the same time, except cstick slightly after.

 

[Max?]

You need to do them both at the same time

 

[Frisbie]

for some reason i was thinking you had to jump first, but when i picked up a controller just now to see how i timed it, i hit them both at the same time. i need to sleep more lol

 

[Shroomed]

Mario sucks. He's only good for sandbagging.

 

[ranmaru]

That's actually what I did. : D

I mean analog + cstick for upsmash oos

 

[Max?]

Mario sucks. He's only good for sandbagging.

Agree d

 

[Gea]

You need to do them both at the same time

Well... you need to do the cstick immediately after, but it feels like the same time. Also my tip for usmash OOS is you are able to do it after you see the static on your shield (after it has been hit).

Up B OOS (canceled or not) comes out faster I am pretty sure and has more priority, but like it's been said if you miss, you just kinda... sit there waiting for your doom. Also note you can buffer a uair OoS by tapping the cstick up twice.

 

[Cyphus]

lies upon lies. mario is same tier as doc. the f.smash, guys. the f.smash! what do u even do about it?!

 

[Frisbie]

lies upon lies. mario is same tier as doc. the f.smash, guys. the f.smash! what do u even do about it?!

it's unstoppable. you can spam it and it will destroy everyone

 

[Max?]

Getting hit by Mario's fsmash sucks, it's true. But then I DI up and live past 140% every stock. I played vs. J3ly's Mario pretty extensively when I visited England and it was very common that I would live to 180%+ every stock. Mario can't KO for ****, and with good DI you live forever

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's not like tossing out f-smashes is exactly a good strategy anyway.

 

[Frisbie]

It's not like tossing out f-smashes is exactly a good strategy anyway.

it's the best strategy

 

[ranmaru]

Getting hit by Mario's fsmash sucks, it's true. But then I DI up and live past 140% every stock. I played vs. J3ly's Mario pretty extensively when I visited England and it was very common that I would live to 180%+ every stock. Mario can't KO for ****, and with good DI you live forever

Oh **** I didn't know you visited England. I'm sure you didn't for smash... but if you did awesome ****. : D

 

[ranmaru]

WAIT. GUYS. QUESTION.

Let's say you are CG'ing. What do you do if you miss. I mean, I'm sure you would try to tech chase or something. What options would you use at this point?

Like, should you crouch cancel and expect a counter attack or something? I was just thinking of that when practicing

 

[Max?]

Oh **** I didn't know you visited England. I'm sure you didn't for smash... but if you did awesome ****. : D

I did not visit there for smash. I just made it a point to play the locals while I was out there.

WAIT. GUYS. QUESTION.

Let's say you are CG'ing. What do you do if you miss. I mean, I'm sure you would try to tech chase or something. What options would you use at this point?

Like, should you crouch cancel and expect a counter attack or something? I was just thinking of that when practicing

Depends on the situation.

If they jump out because you miss time it, I would look to see what their intentions are to land on the ground and **** them accordingly. If it's on FD for example, they have to land at some point, so just see what they are gonna do and punish.

If you're too late and they miss a tech, tech chase. If they tech... tech chase. If they get up attack, shield grab it/usmash OOS/etc etc etc.

If they miss a tech, dsmash/fsmash their bounce, or jab reset them and follow their get up (assuming they are past 10% in which case forced get up is not guaranteed).

You should be more specific tho, there are too many variables to take into account.

 

[Cyphus]

is there a doc group on facebook?
that would let us have 24hour chats and post relative discussions, I'm sure many don't have AIM/etc



max, you must mean living at 140% on like FD/DL? It should kill easier than that on most stages. Doc is on the heavy side though. f.smash is broken though being BOTH a tool to knock the opponent off stage/settup edgeguard, and also easily combo'd and a great spacing/punish tool (plus all great tilts)
mario's retreating f.smash adds an entire level of punishment that your opponent must always be weary of if your leading and forcing approaches.

 

[Max?]

I think the best use of Mario Fsmash I've seen was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3YaoAaicDs

Last match.

I'd be down for a Doc FB group. PM me for my fb info, I really don't need fake *****s blowing up my FB anymore then they already do

 

[Cyphus]

definitely, and the other matches had good f.smash usage too.
i was hoping someone wanted to, as I'm actually not to savvy on that

 

[Max?]

If other people are up for it, I'd opt to put one together.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm down for a Doc FB group too.

 

[Cyphus]

I'm Brandon Dufrene in Austin and bearded

 

[Max?]

For those who wanna be involved, PM me your info or post it here. I'll make the group later on today. We'll see how much this catches on, could be really cool.

 

[VGmasta]

Most people here already know me as VGmasta on facebook. And most people recognize my orange smiley.

 

[ranmaru]

Carlos Matos on Facebook. Harcum College.

If you still have trouble I'll have to add you. Just PM me your facebook if you have to.

 

[boss8]

snorlax gentle giant mason

 

[ranmaru]

Also btw, thanks Otg for answering my question. I meant for it to be general. : D

 

[Max?]

No problem dude. The general gist of what you want to do in this game is just **** as much as possible. So if you mess something up, do the best option that will lead to more ****.

I'll make that FB group in a few hours, just a lil strapped for time on a project atm.

 

[poega]

Id like to talk about fair. I mean **** I rarely even see it anymore actually combo'd into anything. I have incredible trouble to get it off against peach and marth (PAL) cus I get naired (peach) or marth****ed before it goes off, all percentages prey much. Do I need to stop being lazy and space it with her nair in mind (cant space marth in the air and still get off tho right?) or is just a heavy punishment for hard reads against the floatier ****s?

 

[Max?]

If you're getting hit out of throw -> fair during %'s where it should work, you are not jumping fast enough after the throw. Doc's dthrow is affected by weight, so the animation is faster for someone who is lighter. Thus vs. someone like Peach/Jiggs, you have to react IMMEDIATELY to their DI in order for it to connect.

As for comboing into it, the only moves you really will see Fair connect from are uair/utilt/usmash/nair (sometimes)/Bair (sometimes). Just work on your reactions, and realize that you are not Falcon. Do not try to treat the Fair as tho it is the knee. You are NOT Captain Falcon.

Uair -> fair is pretty legit at higher %'s, just comes down to your ability to exect the Uair as quickly as possible, dash the second you hit the ground and react to their DI properly, that simple.

 

[Cyphus]

I'm rather wreckless with f.air. Admittedly, a lot of my KOs come from "random" f.airs- often catching people as they jump. I'm sure the attention I give to those reads comes at a cost of other ignorance, but I've never been one to play the orthodox doc. Biasly, I think most docs can benefit from more f.airs- well spaced/settup from pills.

 

[Max?]

Alright, so in order for me to add people to this group they have to be my friend on FB. My only request is you guys don't blow up my wall with obnoxious smash stuff. I'm trying to get laid ya know

Ill be the random guy named "max S________" adding you

 

[boss8]

^if a girl cares whats onyour wall,why bother tryna mess wit her?


its facebook damnit xD

 

[Max?]

This is true, but still I'd rather not have a bunch of fake smash stuff on my wall. Just sayin