Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[HiIH]

So Dogy, how do you think a Roll/Doc team would go?

 

[ranmaru]

Taking a break actually is a bad idea. (No offense tres)

__

Lets talk through some things.

1) When you sit down and play your friends, are you always trying to beat them or are you actually trying to learn?
-Do you keep running the same strat over and over, or do you attempt to try new stuff, fail or success?

2) Do you ever play some matches to win, or do you play all of them "casually."
-People gripe about m2k chaingrabbing the **** out of people in friendlies, but people are amazed how "he never misses a chaingrab". Put 2 and 2 together. He practices how he plays. All pros in all games do that. ALL of them. (Daigo practices hadoken zoning on everybody, Fatality practices spawn kill routes (whatever they're called) etc, etc0>
-Not saying you have to do it ALL the time, but if you NEVER practice that stuff on a live target, you wont be able to do it when you need to. (And sadly, you cant do it ALL the time because the smash community is prone to crying when people "play serious in casuals")

3) Do you actually practice stuff you CANT do, or do you just stick with what you know?
-This is kind of #1 reworded, but it's more for just tech in general.
-Picture this, most docs cant up+b cancel, especially when we want to. You know why? I guarantee every doc that cant up+b cancel never practices it like everything else. It's not exactly "easy" but if you want to do it, you have to practice for it. I mean, you did it with the dumb-easy stuff (wavedashing, l cancelling, yada yada).

__

There really are alot of things to getting better, but you have to start with YOU getting better. You've got a group of people to play with, so you have a great tool in live, (hopefully competent) targets.

What I do is I practice by myself, so thats kinda bad too. Because, I practice everything with a computer, and then when I try that on someone good, of course none of it happens. What I just forget is that they will always be moving and hitting me and then I'm dead before I know it.

Like, for example, a fox. [like Cactuar or teczero {I can't tell what they are doing or usually do}] Of course I try to grab and I get hit. Once I do get a grab I try to chaingrab. I guess I have to find out what they are doing to me and what they are seeing THROUGH me to be able to hit me lol

And plus my controller is dying on me. I will try to meet new people to play with here though. Although some say I improved when I don't even notice it myself.

 

[mallu000]

I got ***** by my friend`s Falco all the time. I couldn`t do anything to his Side-B recovery, SHB/L, Pillaring etc. I noticed that I was always trying to things that had worked against CPUs and never actually observing his game or mine.

Now that I have started playing more to learn and apply new things I beat the hell out of him. For example I tested Up-Tilt and U-Air juggles on him and losing some matches along the way but now I know how to do them and how he usually reacts to them.

It's funny when a falco player says over and over again "Doc is so broken"

I suppose it`s always better to just focus on improving your game in friendlies and use things you already master in tournaments. Even though I haven`t been in a tournament yet but this is just what I think.

 

[ranmaru]

Its also funny when you are playing some nub falcos and you are winning, and theres a girl saying that that doc sucks. D:<

 

[St. Viers]

It's funny when a falco player says over and over again "Doc is so broken"

I know 3 of them who do that, and yeah, it's pretty hilarious. Then again, one of them thinks that about pichu

 

[Vulcan55]

All my friends say Doc is really gay, yet they play Sheik and Fox...

 

[unknown522]

Its also funny when you are playing some nub falcos and you are winning, and theres a girl saying that that doc sucks. D:<

Back in 2007, when a falco player (fox secondary) was the best in my region, he kept saying how doc is so broken. U-tilt and cape and I was like: lol, says the falco player. He was really good back then, dunno about now.

All my friends say Doc is really gay, yet they play Sheik and Fox...

yeah, I've been getting that for years. A peach main said that to me when I was facing a marth this weekend.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

unknown, yu use doc in tournament?

 

[unknown522]

I used to. I use fox now and doc for matchups I find awkward (peach sometimes, samus, low tiers, ganon, falcon on FD, marth on FD, dittos, mario, luigi).

Pretty much not against jiggs, shiek, falco, ICs, and some foxes. Also if I get CP'd to FoD sometimes.

The top tiers are common though, so I don't get to use him too often.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Well I dunno, gay doesn't necessarily mean good. There's something just kinda... lame/gay about being caped or bair gimped, because there's not a whole lot you can do.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Cape isn't as gay as shine spike, though. Mid/low tiers deserve to have some gay.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Shinespikes at least look kinda cool. Cape is just like... ahhh... wrong direction... nooo =(

...I dunno.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I feel you. Instead of cool, amazing blue scintillations and a hexagonal force field, it's like ****** "ahah swinging mai cape hur hur. Turned ya round.".

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It's not even a cape, per se. It's a sheet. Ahurrr...

 

[TemPesT-]

SUPER SHEET!

this is why i prefer yodel guards, it's hilariously flashy and over the top with awesomeness. 64 style.

docs definitely not THAT gay tho...not at all. he's just forced to play kinda gay sometimes vs gayer ppl.

@ Unknown, isn't Doc supposed to have the advantage vs puff??

 

[anthony000]

I feel you. Instead of cool, amazing blue scintillations and a hexagonal force field, it's like ****** "ahah swinging mai cape hur hur. Turned ya round.".

Hahaha Ok I'm sorry but how do I sig this?

 

[ranmaru]

Well, I guess since it takes less skill to do it it hurts the victim more lol. Thats why I like it.

I love the super sheet. :] Because, well, elvin narrow and chival ruse already explained it.

But getting shined is gayer, because its like I try to come back, but I'm rejected and instead shined again. *ting* [thats you getting shined]

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hahaha Ok I'm sorry but how do I sig this?

Click on your avatar in the navigation toolbar at the top of the page. Scroll down to "Settings and Options". Click "Edit Signature".

 

[Scidadle]

@ Unknown, isn't Doc supposed to have the advantage vs puff??

Yeah... but I still hate the matchup.

And fox does good vs puff

 

[Dogysamich]

@ Unknown, isn't Doc supposed to have the advantage vs puff??

I say doc does, some other docs main say doc does, some of the higher up puff mains say doc does, that doesnt mean that

1) a person has to agree with it

and more importantly, that doesnt mean

2) a person has to actually be good at the matchup.

__

I mean, I know alot of marth mains who swear marth/doc is 50/50 or heaven forbid IN DOCS FAVOR.

Nothing is set in stone in this community, that's just really how things work.

 

[otg]

I'm actually starting to think that Doc v. Marth is closer to even then we give it credit for. Doc vs. Falco is pretty horrible, Doc vs. Sheik is pretty horrible. Everything else is **** though (including Doc v. Falcon which is only like 55/45 falcon)

 

[CanISmash]

i love doc vs falco in friendlies. up-b outta shield all day?

 

[VGmasta]

Marth/Doc match up 50/50?! Who told you that?! I'm having a hard *** time beating even the noobiest Marths. There's no way that could ever be 50/50.
And the Falco players saying Doc is broken, lol! Doc's not broken at all. I think Doc is too easily outspaced by all of the fast characters that have crazy hitboxes. Sheik, Marth, Fox, Falcon, and Falco have way more on Doc as far as spacing goes.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Psh, like Fox and Falco need spacing against Doc =P

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Hey guize, I'm back. It was fun CGing in BB, but I miss Melee. It's like... the greatest game EVER!

Use edgegrab>ledgedrop>jump nair for ******** edgeguarding that will annoy all your friends! :D :D :D!

Shinespikes at least look kinda cool. Cape is just like... ahhh... wrong direction... nooo =(

...I dunno.

Recover backwards. That's what the CO players do if they expect a cape. If you're recovering at a spot where you can't, you were dead anyway.

I'm actually starting to think that Doc v. Marth is closer to even then we give it credit for. Doc vs. Falco is pretty horrible, Doc vs. Sheik is pretty horrible. Everything else is **** though (including Doc v. Falcon which is only like 55/45 falcon)

Dash attack for life, lololol.

Doc v Falco is still pretty easy, to me. Sheik is annoying. Falcon is annoying. Marth is stupid. Peach is actually pretty easy. :D

Marth/Doc match up 50/50?! Who told you that?! I'm having a hard *** time beating even the noobiest Marths. There's no way that could ever be 50/50.
And the Falco players saying Doc is broken, lol! Doc's not broken at all. I think Doc is too easily outspaced by all of the fast characters that have crazy hitboxes. Sheik, Marth, Fox, Falcon, and Falco have way more on Doc as far as spacing goes.

Dash attack clinks with everything ever. Aside from that, I dunno. You need platforms to do well vs Marth, I feel. Buuuuuuut, I feel that way with all my lower tiered characters. Platforms just give you too many options.

Psh, like Fox and Falco need spacing against Doc =P

UpBs point to yes!

 

[ranmaru]

Marth/Doc match up 50/50?! Who told you that?! I'm having a hard *** time beating even the noobiest Marths. There's no way that could ever be 50/50.
And the Falco players saying Doc is broken, lol! Doc's not broken at all. I think Doc is too easily outspaced by all of the fast characters that have crazy hitboxes. Sheik, Marth, Fox, Falcon, and Falco have way more on Doc as far as spacing goes.

Right?!?!?! RIGHT?!?!?! Man, noob falcos sure know how to keep you on your toes. Seriously, I have to try my hardest just to be keeping up against them. Oh... You said nooby marths. nvm, thought you said falcos lol.

A nooby marth is easy, I just have to make sure I just dodge his sidesmash [or insert some other laggy move like side b] and then punish him SEVERELY FOR DOING IT AGAIN. Yeah, he also teamed with me a bit and always sidesmashed me by accident. DOH

 

[otg]

Wow, the Doc boards scare me sometimes. Ok first of all, CanIsmash? No, get out of the doc boards. Jk, I love you but your Doc is trash and if you think Doc v. Falco is easy the Falco you are playing is trash (I hope it's not prog cause I love that mofo too). MM Doc v. Falco? I'll be Falco, and how about we MM doc ditto too, that sounds about right.

Zeal, if you think Dash attack is what saves the Doc v. Marth matchup you're just wrong. It's mad good, no argument there, but Marth's can just CC grab/dtilt/anything you all day if you try that nonsense too much. I never said Doc v. Marth was even either, just that it isn't 70-30 or 90-10 or w'e the **** the community as a whole thinks it is nowadays. Falco is harder just because a good Falco will leave very few holes for you to get around, he combos you like it's no joke and barely has to work to get in edgeguards.

 

[ChivalRuse]

You know what a fun match-up is with Doc? Jiggs. Just pill spam, wait for Jiggs to jump over the pills, running upsmash. ****.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Wow, the Doc boards scare me sometimes. Ok first of all, CanIsmash? No, get out of the doc boards. Jk, I love you but your Doc is trash and if you think Doc v. Falco is easy the Falco you are playing is trash (I hope it's not prog cause I love that mofo too). MM Doc v. Falco? I'll be Falco, and how about we MM doc ditto too, that sounds about right.

Zeal, if you think Dash attack is what saves the Doc v. Marth matchup you're just wrong. It's mad good, no argument there, but Marth's can just CC grab/dtilt/anything you all day if you try that nonsense too much. I never said Doc v. Marth was even either, just that it isn't 70-30 or 90-10 or w'e the **** the community as a whole thinks it is nowadays. Falco is harder just because a good Falco will leave very few holes for you to get around, he combos you like it's no joke and barely has to work to get in edgeguards.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

...


ahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha

I was joking about the dash attack. honestly, Doc's jab is what makes that match-up fun for me. That and his edgeguards.

It's funny when people forget that I'm better than them.

EDIT: Almost forgot, wd ftilt is pretty good vs Marth, too. It's the easiest way to get damage.

 

[icyrvnd]

Well I dunno, gay doesn't necessarily mean good. There's something just kinda... lame/gay about being caped or bair gimped, because there's not a whole lot you can do.

Cape isn't as gay as shine spike, though. Mid/low tiers deserve to have some gay.

Shinespikes at least look kinda cool. Cape is just like... ahhh... wrong direction... nooo =(
...I dunno.

I feel you. Instead of cool, amazing blue scintillations and a hexagonal force field, it's like ****** "ahah swinging mai cape hur hur. Turned ya round.".

I love this thread

And aah, my sign gets cut in half

k back to lurking[/flood]

 

[otg]

It's funny when people forget that I'm better than them.

Who the **** are you again? I've taken matches off of top ec players w/ Doc, wtf have you ever done?

 

[Vulcan55]

Aw snap, time to measure e-peens.

 

[Scidadle]

Aw snap, time to measure e-peens.

I hear OTG's real peen is pretttty huge

 

[otg]

I hear OTG's real peen is pretttty huge

LOL, I don't even want to know how the **** you got that.

 

[Scidadle]

Don't hide it <3

 

[otg]

Alright fine:

*unzips*

8=================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================D

*thonk*

stop stretching my f'n page. XD

 

[Scidadle]

(LOL)

See, told you guys.

 

[mallu000]

I`d rather play against Falco then Marth. When facing Marth it`s just so **** hard to get openings, combos and any cg`s. Falco maybe ****** the **** out from me across the stage but at least I can juggle or cg him decently when I get those openings.

I`m havin hard time with my friend who only mains Falco, Sheik, Marth and Fox and he`s always saying that I should start maining a real character instead of Doc/Mario. But it`s funny when I`m usually the one who`s winning.

 

[VGmasta]

Doc v Falco is still pretty easy, to me. Sheik is annoying. Falcon is annoying. Marth is stupid. Peach is actually pretty easy. :D

Dash attack clinks with everything ever. Aside from that, I dunno. You need platforms to do well vs Marth, I feel. Buuuuuuut, I feel that way with all my lower tiered characters. Platforms just give you too many options.

I wonder what kind of Falcos you play against. I feel like DaShizWiz and Lambchops are impossible for me to beat. Well, maybe that's a slight exxageration. But still, Falcos aren't supposed to be an "easy" matchup.

Dash attack does clink with a lot (maybe even all) of Marth's ground attacks, which would be a great way to get inside a Marth that doesn't know how to jump around. But Doc's dash attack has nothing on a Marth that jumps around with n-airs and f-airs all of the time.

I`d rather play against Falco then Marth. When facing Marth it`s just so **** hard to get openings, combos and any cg`s. Falco maybe ****** the **** out from me across the stage but at least I can juggle or cg him decently when I get those openings.

Yeah, I think Falco's a crap ton easier than Marth. Doc has 0-death combos on Falco (I think lots of characters combo Falco to death). But you can't combo a Marth for more than three light hits at a time. And Marth is harder to gimp/edgeguard than Falco because Falco can't defend himself with aerials offstage while recovering (He falls to fast for that). Trying to DI out of Marth's combos is wayyy more difficult than escaping Falco's combos.

 

[St. Viers]

I've never found falco to be that hard a matchup (granted, the best falco I've played isn't that great, but at the time he was still a better player than me). The match really just boils down to:

Keep on a different horizontal plane than him (through platforms, or jumping), and if you are gonna challenge him straight on, remember that you cn WD oos between lazers, and that you can (if you really need to) cape them. Just don't get used to it, and do it at close range, you'll get punished for it. Also, a benefit to jumping over is you can pill through their lazers, d-air if they come under you, or n-air.

When they start approaching (usually falcos stop overusing lazers against doc), try not to shield the approaches. Instead, DD away when they commit to the attack, and grab. If you see them trying to delay their attack or empty SHFF, f-smash them. Full jump d-airs are great against them, as it beats out the flip kick.

When you get a a grab, make it count. CG, end it by throwing them off-stage (loss of life), or by dunking (loss of life). Remember that after a certain %, you can d-throw into stuff.

When you are getting comboed, I usually SDI up, and hold towards the stage. Better to eat a d-air you can tech than one that kills you.