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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

Dogysamich

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
@OTG: It's all in good fun. If I ever had any real disrespect for anybody, I'd never say their name period. That's how people get big, ANY kind of talk.

@SB: You aint bum. XD
 
ranmaru

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Honestly Green is the only colour I don't like for Doc. I like Blue, and White alot now. Pink is what I usually use. Black I don't use, just because I don't. Whoooooo. Now if it was dark green....
 
isthattim?

isthattim?

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
651
Location
Iso appreciation society headquarters
sumo_066 said:
Honestly Green is the only colour I don't like for Doc. I like Blue, and White alot now. Pink is what I usually use. Black I don't use, just because I don't. Whoooooo. Now if it was dark green....
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clearly black is the colour to use as it makes doc batman.
so, theres gonna be two doc's reppin the australian nationals tomorrow and theres a good chance we're gonna make it into brackets.

now would be a great time for someone to give an 80's style motivational speech plz.
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
Strong_Bad said:
i'd like to see you or dogy to do better against Mango
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I know I'd do better by the sheer fact of when I go to press the R button, I dont have to worry about my ****ing bowtie sticking out or anything crazy like that.

^_^
isthattim? said:

so, theres gonna be two doc's reppin the australian nationals tomorrow and theres a good chance we're gonna make it into brackets.

now would be a great time for someone to give an 80's style motivational speech plz.
Click to expand...
-Clears throat-

Good luck, and God speed.

___

So the other day, I had a hilarious *** misadventure. I typed it up and put it on my facebook, and it's been a hit. I put it on my blog (which I have no followers for, no surprise), but I'd like to share it with you guys just for lols

The lols
Note that you will need 2 things to get through this

1) Sound, as there are background music links ^_^
2) alot of free time, cause it's pretty lengthy.

But enjoy laughing at my dumb***


 
unknown522

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
i use it early before I jump, to get slightly more vertical distance.

Doing it at the ledge is better, because it might force them to get up if they don't time getting their invinciblity right, otherwise the tornado will hit them.

Do should be dead offstage anyway, use whatever works.
 
Scidadle

Scidadle

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,041
Location
Toronto, Canada
(I suck at the tornado)

I would do it at the start cause thats when it helps the most but I suck at it... I rarely get the PTP usually I just do it to stall as unknown mentioned.
 
VGmasta

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Scidadle said:
Yeah but even like, when they got the ledge tornado to stall/get some extra height it'll help.
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Yeah I could've used tornado by the ledge in a couple of situations, but I only do it if I expect them to get the ledge before I can Up-B at the ledge. I got edgehogged in a recent tournament two or three times because the opponent grabbed ledge from me by a couple of frames unexpectedly. I know vs. IShotLazer's Marth/Fox he got the ledge, but it was after I walljumped off of teching an attack and he unexpectedly stole the ledge before me by a couple of frames. Plus I don't get the PTP consistently either and I didn't want to risk losing a stock for fail PTPs.

And versus Green Mario, I was scared to tornado stall close to ledge because he's fast and I figured I would be kissing a B-air from him by tornadoing to close. A lot of good Mario players ledgehop and regrab ledge to reset invincibilty frames so that they can get easier B-air edgeguards. So I was hoping to spike him with my Up-B. Instead, I think he was tricking me into UpB-ing early so that I would land on the stage for an easy punish (I remember getting Fsmashed and Dsmashed at Yoshi Story because of that).

But altogether, I tornado stall if I expect the opponent to ledge stall and then ledge roll an anticipated UpB before I tornado. I feel like it's kinda risky to challenge an opponent that is reseting invincibility frames on the ledge with a tornado because I've gotten punished for it way more than I've gotten rewarded for it in all of my experiences.
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
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Messages
6,140
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Warner Robins, Georgia
*Mind you, I havent watched any vids, I just know how this stuff works*
vgmastaricky said:
Yeah I could've used tornado by the ledge in a couple of situations, but I only do it if I expect them to get the ledge before I can Up-B at the ledge. I got edgehogged in a recent tournament two or three times because the opponent grabbed ledge from me by a couple of frames unexpectedly. I know vs. IShotLazer's Marth/Fox he got the ledge, but it was after I walljumped off of teching an attack and he unexpectedly stole the ledge before me by a couple of frames. Plus I don't get the PTP consistently either and I didn't want to risk losing a stock for fail PTPs.
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That happens alot. It's called "Doc has a horrible recovery". If you have to up+b, you outta get punished regardless of what happens, unless opponents just dont grab the ledge. Them trying to sneak the ledge from you, although completely viable and usable, is mad greedy for what needs to be done to doc.

Sorry you had to see it the hard way.

And versus Green Mario, I was scared to tornado stall close to ledge because he's fast and I figured I would be kissing a B-air from him by tornadoing to close. A lot of good Mario players ledgehop and regrab ledge to reset invincibilty frames so that they can get easier B-air edgeguards. So I was hoping to spike him with my Up-B. Instead, I think he was tricking me into UpB-ing early so that I would land on the stage for an easy punish (I remember getting Fsmashed and Dsmashed at Yoshi Story because of that).
Click to expand...

Probably. Green Mario knows how doc/mario's recovery works very well. Yeah, that's the kinda thing ANYBODY can do. Again, that's why I tell people "if you ever wanna edgeguard doc or mario, just grab the ledge" If you have to up+b at all (which you will, or it will be blatantly obvious), you're getting punished.

There's nothing you can really do to stop it but just work positioning and not get off the stage (literally, that's all you can really do about it).

__

As for tornado stalling near a ledge? Yeeeeeeah that's still a cheap parlor trick that only works on people who've never seen a mario of any kind ever in their life. You want to make sure that when you tornado, you do it outside of your opponent's attack range.

I say outside because it doesnt have to be immediate. Most docs (myself included) like to do it as the first thing for recovery. Few (I know DJN, and I want to say $mac did this), will do it at some point before they get into range.

You just cant do it anywhere near a ledge hoping to hit somebody. They have enough time to literally stand up and then get back on the ledge before you can get there.
But altogether, I tornado stall if I expect the opponent to ledge stall and then ledge roll an anticipated UpB before I tornado. I feel like it's kinda risky to challenge an opponent that is reseting invincibility frames on the ledge with a tornado because I've gotten punished for it way more than I've gotten rewarded for it in all of my experiences.
Click to expand...
*points up*

You either
A) Wait
B) Up+b and try to get through them (to stage or ledge)
C) YOU BETTER ****ING WAIT
D) D'oh off the bottom.

It ain't pretty.

___

Speaking of recovery, I'll cut out the BS in say that a tourney in my city got cancelled (TY Warner Robins, home of the fail.)

But bloshi came down sadly (sad for him cause it was a 2 hour drive for nothing). We played a crapton of friendlies again, Doc vs Yoshi, and I learned 2 things that were pretty hilarious (more dumb matchup knowledge)

1) If you plan on trying to b.air yoshi's recovery, make a 2nd plan for him DJing THROUGH your b.air and nairing you off the stage.

2) If yoshi looks like he's going to instant edgehog, you have be there before he goes off the stage. Obviously if you're slow he takes the ledge, but if he's slow or sloppy, you wont knock him away, you'll just hit his double jump armor and he'll grab the ledge anyway.

Random Matchup Knowledge is random.

___

Edit:

Kobe = throw -> f.air. Coined by HMW and Phil (or whoever actually came up with it over there in Cali).

Sometimes referred to as dunking, because well, I dont have a Kobe over here on the east coast.
 
VGmasta

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Dogysamich said:
That happens alot. It's called "Doc has a horrible recovery". If you have to up+b, you outta get punished regardless of what happens, unless opponents just dont grab the ledge. Them trying to sneak the ledge from you, although completely viable and usable, is mad greedy for what needs to be done to doc.

Sorry you had to see it the hard way.


Probably. Green Mario knows how doc/mario's recovery works very well. Yeah, that's the kinda thing ANYBODY can do. Again, that's why I tell people "if you ever wanna edgeguard doc or mario, just grab the ledge" If you have to up+b at all (which you will, or it will be blatantly obvious), you're getting punished.

There's nothing you can really do to stop it but just work positioning and not get off the stage (literally, that's all you can really do about it).

__

As for tornado stalling near a ledge? Yeeeeeeah that's still a cheap parlor trick that only works on people who've never seen a mario of any kind ever in their life. You want to make sure that when you tornado, you do it outside of your opponent's attack range.

I say outside because it doesnt have to be immediate. Most docs (myself included) like to do it as the first thing for recovery. Few (I know DJN, and I want to say $mac did this), will do it at some point before they get into range.

You just cant do it anywhere near a ledge hoping to hit somebody. They have enough time to literally stand up and then get back on the ledge before you can get there.

 *points up*

You either
A) Wait
B) Up+b and try to get through them (to stage or ledge)
C) YOU BETTER ****ING WAIT
D) D'oh off the bottom.

It ain't pretty.

___

Speaking of recovery, I'll cut out the BS in say that a tourney in my city got cancelled (TY Warner Robins, home of the fail.)

But bloshi came down sadly (sad for him cause it was a 2 hour drive for nothing). We played a crapton of friendlies again, Doc vs Yoshi, and I learned 2 things that were pretty hilarious (more dumb matchup knowledge)

1) If you plan on trying to b.air yoshi's recovery, make a 2nd plan for him DJing THROUGH your b.air and nairing you off the stage.

2) If yoshi looks like he's going to instant edgehog, you have be there before he goes off the stage. Obviously if you're slow he takes the ledge, but if he's slow or sloppy, you wont knock him away, you'll just hit his double jump armor and he'll grab the ledge anyway.

Random Matchup Knowledge is random.

___

Edit:

Kobe = throw -> f.air. Coined by HMW and Phil (or whoever actually came up with it over there in Cali).

Sometimes referred to as dunking, because well, I dont have a Kobe over here on the east coast.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly on Doc's recovery. Green Mario's too smart for that bull, lol.

That's interesting stuff to know about Yoshi.

otg said:
I like dribbling spacies a few times before I kobe them.
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Yeah, that's one of my favorite elements about Doc. He can dribble (chaingrab) his opponents and then either bounce (D-throw) them off of the ground or toss them up (Up-throw) into the air, jump up and slam dunk them with his fist (F-air) literally like he's having a ball.
 
TemPesT-

TemPesT-

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
1,175
Location
Minnesota
is it smart to try and PTP just out of range and try to bait there attack? or do you advise using it early as possible to make sure you gain the height. and then w/e as you get closer. if you know your out of their range barely tho, you could PTP and maybe sneak past them or something... ya know?
 
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