Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[P.C. Jona]

screw sf4

 

[Naota21t]

so.... shroomed just 3-0'd ss.... what?

 

[Vulcan55]

Doesn't Fei Long have a throw into Ultra?
Or, that thing where he flips over you that's not really a throw.

 

[P.C. Jona]

so.... shroomed just 3-0'd ss.... what?

ss had to leave i think didnt he ?

they said he was sandbagging hard

anyways

falcon is not doc's worst matchup

if you guys keep saying that your all ********

its 50/50

the edge guarding isnt fair, chain grabbing isnt fair

cc dsmash is gay

up tilting approach is gay

up air up air up air is gay

i really think that falcon nair'ing through pills is not that big of a problem
get over it

its even

 

[otg]

at 0% Knee -> knee -> knee -> knee -> knee -> knee.

Doc, combo fodder.

 

[P.C. Jona]

50/50

no johns

 

[Strong Badam]

shut up jona you don't know what the **** you're talking about you don't use Doc at all. OTG knows wtf he's talking about cuz he USES the ****in' bad char and you're stupid because you don't know how to fight Doc to the point where you think it's even so get the **** out

god ****
you're not even a good falcon
i've fought darkrain w/ doctor mario
you don't even know half of what falcon can do to doctor mario as he yawns going "who's next"

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I disagree. Spacing alone puts Falcon above Doc. I'd say... 60-40, Falcon, at best.

Whoa there, Strong Bad, have some rainbow colors to soothe your angry mood.

 

[Strong Badam]

don't be gay, dude.

 

[Dogysamich]

oh boy, time to roast some people. And stuff of that nature.

i like KEN, he's cool

and i've seen a ton of dr. chaos vids

Yeaaaaah man. Ken's got those mad mixups. **** gets extra hilarious when you run into somebody who blatantly doesnt know frame data. (i.e., somebody who doesnt know f+mk is -2 on block) XD

ken is too limited dont use him

said one doc main to another.

sigh. doc really can't recover if the opponent knows what theyre doing. it makes me sad. until i gimp someone.

1) Ken limited? He's not exactly limited, just doesnt get nearly as much reward as ryu does for doing work.

2) Yeah, doc's recovery is pretty bad. Try telling that to a good bit of the community. XD

ken wishes he was good in SF4.

Again, he's not horribly by any stretch of the imagination.

Ken isnt too bad in sf4 sctually. its just a matter of getting in. his bad matchups are chars. with a lot of defensive options like honda, blanka, sagat, or rog. ken is really good footsie range and has wakeup mixups for days due to his kara throws, ex tatsu, f.mk, d.mk and jab jab jab SRK combos. the only thing is his fireballs suck, it takes a lot of work to win due to his low damage, and his ultra is next to useless.

its all about dat C Viypa tho.

Yes to the ken facts. His ultra isnt really useless. Makes for a mad good anti air.

But Viper? *makes the "dat ***" face* Oh man a good viper is off-the-chain to watch.

I was watching the New Castle Fight club today and saw more of Marn playing viper. L O L cancels. I tried to go back and watch a melee stream i was watching, but didnt care to see more spanimals with shines. XD

best matchups in sf4 ever:

- honda vs akuma
- sagat vs honda

- ryu vs any character other than sagat
- sagat dittos

- goken vs the cast before he got banned

Sagat's better than goken

-Honda-Akuma is hilarious yes.
-Anything with sagat = :| and you know it
-Ryu = "If it aint daigo it aint fun".
-Sagat mirrors. ..... -sigh- I hate them, but yes, they're f'n hilarious.

LOL THEY BANNED GOUKEN IN CANADA? NO WONDER YOU GUYS GET NO CREDIT FOR ANYTHING LOL.

gouken got banned since the game came out (not in Canada though until a few months ago). It's because of that back throw -> ultra crap and him being the only character that can parry. The parry out of demon flip is incredibly broken and parry does like 1/6th of your health if your character has decent defence. Sagat's still a better character though.

Honda ***** akuma
Sagat ***** honda about the same.

Gouken's never been banned in america, or anywhere that place that plays console characters. B.throw -> ultra.. lol. Im wondering if the people who ban him realize that his b.throw is a special throw that has like, double the break time?

And his parry? Its not bad, but it's not like, balrog's armor cancel ultras or anything.

Gouken can counter but the thing is he has recovery on the parry so if he guesses wrong, theres a free punish. and with the back throw they give you like double the frames to tech it so you can tech it on reaction. Gouken isnt ban-worthy at all IMO. he has no pressure game at all so its all about reacting to get in on his semi high tier defense.

anyway you guys are mad distracting lol. I came in here originally looking for Doc/peach matchup info and doc/sheik matchup info.

1) *props for gouken info*
2) Lol. Welcome to the Doc Discussion, where anything is fair game till I tell you to STFU (or some other mod does it).

I'll post some doc/peach and doc/sheik in another post, either later or 2morrow.

I know there's plenty of info floating around here, but i'll just put my 10 cents about it. YOU WOULDNT HAVE THIS PROBLEM IF ****ING DESH KEPT HIS THREAD UP-TO-DATE.

Doesn't Fei Long have a throw into Ultra?
Or, that thing where he flips over you that's not really a throw.

Yeah he does, it's a command throw.

falcon is not doc's worst matchup

if you guys keep saying that your all ********

its 50/50

First off, you put it out here, so you're getting blasted for this, because this stemmed from me.

I HAVE NEVER SAID CAPFAL IS DOC'S WORST MATCHUP, I SAID IT WAS MY WORST MATCHUP. DEAR GOD WHY DO PEOPLE ONLY LISTEN/READ HALF OF WHAT I SAY IN THIS COMMUNITY?

__

Beyond that, 50/50? Do you prefer to .. not space with capfal? Because spacing takes a good bit of doc's moveset out of the competition, and that leads to haviiiiiiiiiiiiing an advantage!

 

[elvenarrow3000]

don't be gay, dude.

=P

Huge block of text.

Bad Dogy! You're supposed to be moderating to keep us on topic!

*raps nose with rolled up newspaper*

 

[P.C. Jona]

shut up jona you don't know what the **** you're talking about you don't use Doc at all. OTG knows wtf he's talking about cuz he USES the ****in' bad char and you're stupid because you don't know how to fight Doc to the point where you think it's even so get the **** out

god ****
you're not even a good falcon
i've fought darkrain w/ doctor mario
you don't even know half of what falcon can do to doctor mario as he yawns going "who's next"

lololollol

what an idiot

idc who you've played with who
i've played hax and scar with doc who gives a crap

do you main falcon? no
do you play a doc main on the regular ? no
and im freakin plaing otg all the time so shut your face

yo your mad stupid son
shut up i know what im talking about

i talked about it with hax the day i was playing him with doc
i was telling him that doc isnt as bad as everyone said and he was like word your right
hes just an annoying size/floaty

its hard to combo if you just di away

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Just because Doc isn't bad doesn't mean he has even or better matchups with everyone.

And uh, DIing away makes everyone hard to combo. Does that mean everyone has an even matchup against Falcon?

 

[P.C. Jona]

did you not read the first post i made about all the gay things doc does to falcon

thats what im talking about

and actually

falcon has no good matchup's

there either even or a disadvantage

 

[otg]

See since I 4 stock pc jona with anyone (but particularly doc) all day, the following things can be concluded:

A.) I'm gay
B.) Doc's gay
C.) The matchup is in Doc's favor
D.) I'm like, the best player in smash history.

But that's gay so **** that.

 

[P.C. Jona]

last time i checked

a. you are gay
b. doc is gay
c. the matchup is even
d. you dont 4 stock me, but i triple knee you

but thats not a lie so read it and love it

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Utilt doesn't really beat Falcon's aerials. I mean it can, if you've got just disgustingly good reflexes and timing, but it really doesn't.

Uair combos as Doc don't work any better on Falcon than Falcon's combos on Doc, and I would argue that Falcon has an easier time because he's faster and has more range.

The only thing I really see Doc having over Falcon is edgeguards and gimps but... you'd have to knock Falcon off first, which is easier said than done.

EDIT: Also I hope you're kidding about Falcon not having good matchups, because that's just ignorant and ******** to say.

 

[TresChikon]

Falcon can just bait Doc's u-tilt and **** him after.

U-tilt is good, but only in the same sense that spot dodging has. Both still can be punished harshly even if you have good timing.

 

[unknown522]

LOL THEY BANNED GOUKEN IN CANADA? NO WONDER YOU GUYS GET NO CREDIT FOR ANYTHING LOL.

lol. Yeah, I swear that he's been banned everywhere before Canada banned him. I guess I got that wrong and no one happens to play him.

Gouken's never been banned in america, or anywhere that place that plays console characters. B.throw -> ultra.. lol. Im wondering if the people who ban him realize that his b.throw is a special throw that has like, double the break time?

And his parry? Its not bad, but it's not like, balrog's armor cancel ultras or anything.

Yeah, armor cancel is broken as ****. It's pretty hard to do.


Also PC Jona: I hope you're trolling.




Edit:

Street Fighter 4 Singles
12 Entrants

1. Raynex (Abel)
2. C3 (Honda)
3. Josh (Balrog)
5. Eugene (Sakura)
5. PaintedGhost (Sagat/Balrog)
7. Mikey (Ryu/Chun Li)
7. 5ive (Rufus)
7. Distructo (Ryu)
9. Gi (El Fuerte)
9. Jack (Zangief)
9. Avaricex (Abel)
11. Nikki (Ryu)

C3 Mains rog, though he went honda


Edit2: I posted info on peach at some point. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit3: Nvm, it wasn't as good as I thought. I pretty much said to camp her and hit her when she's floating, before she can get her f-air out. D-smash is amazing in the matchup because you won't really combo her for more than 2 hits anyway most of the time. Doc's d-smash also outranges hers and will beat it if you space well. If not, then they will clink. B-air is your other amazing attacking / spacing tool, along with f-tilt, just like in any other matchup. Also abuse the fact that she is slower than you to maneuver around her. U-tilt through her aerials other than f-air to get a second hit after. U-smash is really good as well because his head is invincible and is a good kill move when she's over 100% (stage dependant). Full hop d-air is good in moderation vs peach because it will beat some of her aerials.

I dunno if Kobe actually links on peach, but you can beat her n-air most of the time anyway if she goes for it, so it's a pretty reliable kill combo (I am 90% sure it doesn't link, but I could be wrong). It will clip her if she tries to jump away as well. All smashes are good kill moves on peach as well, especially if you can space a good f-smash.

Vs shiek: Try to get a grab somehow, then CG her until she's off the stage, or high enough percent to set up an edgeguard. Sheik will **** you in air-to-air combat, so your best bet is to stay grounded as much as possible. CC her tilts into a grab if she spaces poorly, or d-smash her. If sheik tries to attack you from the air, u-tilt / u-smash her and try to combo from it if you can.

When she's moving around on the ground, SHBAWD is pretty good for poking at her and possibly crossing up her shield. F-tilt is another great poking move / spacing tool, but you have to watch out for sheik's CC, otherwise she may just grab or tilt you. Getting the horizontal hitbox on doc's u-tilt is surprisingly good in this matchup when she's above 80%, just to get her off you and maybe off the stage. If you have to be in the air vs sheik, then d-air is your best bet. It may actually beat some of her moves and can combo into u-air.



I'm sleepy now.

 

[Scidadle]

Falcon beats doc

Falcon has good matchups

Done

 

[unknown522]

there you go.

 

[JPOBS]

falcon has no good matchup's

there either even or a disadvantage

you actually think scar is serious when he says that

this is the true meaning of regurgitating what pros say without actually knowing wtf is goign on

 

[P.C. Jona]

so you think i was serious when i said it too ?

nice

 

[Vulcan55]

My brother says 6-4 Falcon.
And he doesn't get hit by U-Air x3, because he can DI.
He doesn't get chain-grabbed because he doesn't get grabbed.

 

[Shroomed]

falcon eats doc

P.S. i ****in hate being sandbagged like that so much

i feel like i shoulda jus jumped off all my stocks and let him thru

imo i got 4th yesterday not 3rd

in other news, I TOOK LUCKY TO LAST MATCH LAST STOCK I WAS SO HAPPY =D

i mess up too many edgeguards tho

mango is impossible to beat with doc

 

[Strong Badam]

He doesn't get chain-grabbed because he doesn't get grabbed.

this is so true about like all mid/low tiers it isn't even funny.

 

[unknown522]

falcon eats doc

most definitely. I used to think it was even, or doc favor, until I played darkrain at pound 3. I also beat cort's falcon / peach every game...but that's friendlies. He was the only player that could land d-throw -> knee on me.

in other news, I TOOK LUCKY TO LAST MATCH LAST STOCK I WAS SO HAPPY =D

Nice. Well done.

i mess up too many edgeguards tho

yes.

mango is impossible to beat with doc

yes.
Who did mango use?

My brother says 6-4 Falcon.
And he doesn't get hit by U-Air x3, because he can DI.
He doesn't get chain-grabbed because he doesn't get grabbed.

Who's your brother?

 

[VGmasta]

falcon is not doc's worst matchup

if you guys keep saying that your all ********

i really think that falcon nair'ing through pills is not that big of a problem
get over it

its even

Hell naw that crap ain't even. Falcon ***** Doc with all those long range combos that kill at mediocre percents like 60 and 70. He can n-air through pills, that means he can outcamp Doc since he's already got wayy more speed than Doc. That's a big problem IMO. I think it's 60-40 in Falcon's favor. Yes, if you can grab a Falcon, then it should be as rewarding as grabbing a Falco or Fox. He should be chain-grabbed to about 50% and possible loss of a stock if Doc can follow-up by reading the opponent's DI/tech and successful edgeguarding. But you'd have to bait Falcon to get grabbed since he can just sit back and space n-airs all night. Plus his aerials seem to shield poke Doc's shield after maybe three aerials, which leaves Doc pretty dang on vulnerable.

falcon has no good matchup's

there either even or a disadvantage

Oh, is that why Falcon's high tier?!

i mess up too many edgeguards tho

mango is impossible to beat with doc

Yeah, I hate foulin' up on edgeguards.
I bet Mango didn't use Jigglypuff though. He probably used Falco.

 

[Shroomed]

yea he went falco

i CP'd brinstar and i had to yell at everyone to stop telling him to go puff

 

[Strong Badam]

so.... shroomed just 3-0'd ss.... what?

what tourney was this? results thread?
and why are there like never any results threads about WC tourneys, despite the fact that they have one like EVERY week or something?

 

[P.C. Jona]

it was phils b-day tourney

lucky took out mango in winners finals

shroomed beat ss is losers semi's

then mango beat shroomed

and then mango vs lucky gf
mango won 3-2 i think

then 3-0

 

[Shroomed]

im gonna ****in **** mango next time!!!!
(if only /tear)
AHH ****

 

[VGmasta]

why are there like never any results threads about WC tourneys, despite the fact that they have one like EVERY week or something?

Because they'd probably end up spamming the smash boards with tourney result threads. I mean they have so many tournaments.

 

[Dogysamich]

It's not really a "they would" as much as it probably is "the community would".

I dont really blame them for not doing it, honestly. Although it is kinda sad that they opt to not use the boards for what they're supposed to be used for. Unless im mistaken (i'd have to im HMW and ask), I think they put most/all of the results up on allisbrawl.

 

[Shroomed]

the results are always posted in the tourney thread

jus go to pac west and click the tourney u want results for and if u surf thru u'll find em

(but they usually end up on the OP eventually)

 

[ChivalRuse]

the results are always posted in the tourney thread

jus go to pac west and click the tourney u want results for and if u surf thru u'll find em

(but they usually end up on the OP eventually)

Nice job ****** SS!

 

[unknown522]

yea he went falco

i CP'd brinstar and i had to yell at everyone to stop telling him to go puff

im gonna ****in **** mango next time!!!!
(if only /tear)
AHH ****

Don't worry. You got this.

 

[otg]

Usmash is pretty good.

 

[Lovage]

that guy shroomed beat me too, but i didn't have my controller
so **** him

<3 shroomed

 

[boss8]

ROFL @ lovage xD