Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Shroomed]

dont hate lovage! get bak to the good character boards

NOTE: USMASH OUTTA SHIELD IS AMAZING AS DOC

that tourney, it led to that janky hitbox on FFers so that i could FSMASH or fair them

and sometimes at high percents, it jus killed them =D

im using that way more often now

 

[boss8]

any vids ma dude???

 

[P.C. Jona]

doesnt it have invincibility frames in the beginning

its broken

also otg is single-handedly evolving the doc metagame

 

[Shroomed]

none of my good matches got recorded

jus me vs SS and me vs mango

no vids of my cool USMASH outta shield combos =D lol

it can beat out shine sometimes

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Doc's head is invincible during the usmash.

 

[St. Viers]

^^doc's head is invincible during the start up of the upsmash.

 

[Vulcan55]

His head is invincible during the attack (When the hitboxes are out) On frames 9-11, not before.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

screw sf4

The only good post by this guy so far.

Seriously tho, how do you guys play SF4? You may as well play Brawl. =(

none of my good matches got recorded

jus me vs SS and me vs mango

no vids of my cool USMASH outta shield combos =D lol

it can beat out shine sometimes

Usmash OoS is pretty tight. But can you fsmash OoS?

 

[Dogysamich]

*watches everybody hop on the upsmash train*

Man, I remember when I talked about doing u.smash -> u.smash, and tech chasing with it, but nobody listened to me. Just like always.

Seriously tho, how do you guys play SF4? You may as well play Brawl. =(

Granted it's far from the best fighter ever, it's pretty good because IT'S FRICKIN CONSISTENT, UNLIKE SMASH, MELEE INCLUDED.

But yeah, I hope you're not saying that implying that SF4 is like, easy or something? Cause that's showing some real smash ignorance.

I also hope you're not trying to use the whole "it's not fast" argument, but that is the most fanboyish argument a melee player has ever had. In all the years melee has existed, I've yet to hear somebody successfully defend that point.

Usmash OoS is pretty tight. But can you fsmash OoS?

lol no this isnt brawl.

Fastest way to get f.smash OoS = shield -> wavedash -> f.smash. You might be able to find something horribly slow enough to just shielddrop -> f.smash, but lol.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

The difference between wavedash to fsmash and shielddrop to fsmash is one frame...

 

[anthony000]

^^^ Wow, that post just made me laugh a lot.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

*watches everybody hop on the upsmash train*

Man, I remember when I talked about doing u.smash -> u.smash, and tech chasing with it, but nobody listened to me. Just like always.


Granted it's far from the best fighter ever, it's pretty good because IT'S FRICKIN CONSISTENT, UNLIKE SMASH, MELEE INCLUDED.

But yeah, I hope you're not saying that implying that SF4 is like, easy or something? Cause that's showing some real smash ignorance.

The links in it are pretty easy. Beating bad players is easy (something I like), but even when I fought good players, it came down to whether or not I messed up on spacing, not whether I read them right or not (something I didn't like). I dunno, maybe it's because I play Chun Li, but it felt like I was always fighting the character, not the player.Zone with kikou+j. suhk/s.fp/s.mp/cr.hk/etc, unless they don't have an upper. Then I can "rush down". My very first SF4 tournament, I took one of CO's top 3 players to last match both times, last round once, and lost because I got greedy and tried to do an ultra instead of stickin' with good ol' EX legs.

I also hope you're not trying to use the whole "it's not fast" argument, but that is the most fanboyish argument a melee player has ever had. In all the years melee has existed, I've yet to hear somebody successfully defend that point.

Its speed isn't what bothers me. I mean, it does a little, but I can't expect every game to be GG, can I? It's how stagnant every match feels. Don't get me wrong, watching people play at high levels is fun. Really good footsies turn me on. Buuuuuuuut it still feels like they're fighting the character, not the player. Again, could just be that Chun Li is just a boring character, but yeah.

lol no this isnt brawl.

It is the SF equivalent of Brawl. I honestly think SF players should just stick with ST or HDR. I love those games becaue of how do-or-die they are. Yeah, there are some REALLY gay things in ST, but at least it doesn't take 10000 years for you to kill someone via tiger zoning or o.ken fireball traps/spam. Even then, comebacks are possible not because of the ******** Ultra crap, but because you can buckle down and rip their life apart via tick throws and nasty xups. I really hate that SFIV rewards you for getting your *** beat, esp in the Chun v Rufus match-up. I can be on point the whole match and lose because LOLCOMBOINTOULTRAFORHUGEDAMAGE! at one point.

The only reason people play SFIV is because of fanboism. Seriously, if SNK or Aksys (mainly Aksys) produced something as boring and stagnant as SFIV, you can bet that the Capcom jockhuggers would be trashin' on it all day long, and it'd be lucky as hell to make it to Evo.

Well, as lucky as you can be, considering how downhill Evo has gone the past few years. =(

I dunno, it just feels too match-up oriented, and I dun really like that. Each match-up playing different and allowing for different tools? Cool. Each match-up consistently relying on the same zoning patterns as a major crux of the metagame? No ty. Might as well play Brawl, same basic thing.

SFIV is a spectator sport, I feel. Fun to watch the top players lock horns, but not all that fun (for me) to play. Rather just play ST/HDR/3s/presumably Alpha/VS/pretty much any CapCom game. Hell, I'd rather deal with Cable vs Jill than play SFIV again.

...Okay, I exaggerated a little, but I'm really not fond of SFIV. Here's hoping Dash makes the game a little more fun. T. Hawk looks tight.

Fastest way to get f.smash OoS = shield -> wavedash -> f.smash. You might be able to find something horribly slow enough to just shielddrop -> f.smash, but lol.

[/QUOTE]


I was joking aboot the fsmash OoS. Doc's not Peach, he can't get away with that stuff.

Sorry if my responses aren't as on=point as they normally are, my monitor is broken, so I have to type a lot from memory, and I have a friend blabbering in my ear right now, much to my chagrin.

 

[otg]

Usmash is sexy cause of its stupid trajectory while opponents are on the ground. I had this super broken idea that I pitched to dogy while I was at work the other day, but yeah ti doesn't work. If it did though, holy ****, doc would move up the tier list so fast.

Doc's usmash combos into itself, grabs, finishers. It's really good + invincibility frames? Sex. Also, recently I've found if you can connect a dash attack on FFers you get a free fsmash if they don't tech. pretty sexy stuff.

 

[Strong Badam]

unfortunately upsmash has a lot of ending lag
otherwise i'd be like sheik's dsmash

 

[ranmaru]

Hahaha. I wonder, sf4 is for xbox 360 rite? I like how I just got one two days ago. I am hyped. : D

 

[otg]

unfortunately upsmash has a lot of ending lag
otherwise i'd be like sheik's dsmash

If it connects it doesn't matter.

 

[HiIH]

So, do you guys think the Pound 4 Ruleset is gonna catch on (or one similar to it)?

What does this mean for Doc if it does, and what stages are you gonna aim to strike (in general).

 

[otg]

Pound 4 ruleset is w'e for Doc. All it does is remove some of the gay counterpicks that gay characters have at there disposal to gay characters worse then them. Doc doesn't really have any particular good or bad neutrals (though Dreamland or FD could be argued as his best), so this doesn't affect him either way. The removal of Stadium is kinda weird, but once again doesn't really affect doc negatively or positively.

 

[St. Viers]

^^it means you don't have to worry about it vs falcon in 1st match. I personally hate falcons on that stage

 

[Scidadle]

I'M SO PROUD OF MYSELF.

I beat a falcon that usually ***** my face like 5 times today.

I'M SO HAPPY IN MY DOC FALCON MATCH UP EXPERIENCE (Thanks Shroomed for MMing Scar, notes helped so much)

 

[Scar]

yeah shroomed is mad good

 

[Scidadle]

Eh, he's alright

(<33333)

 

[Shroomed]

yeah shroomed is mad good

no im not scar

i suck, btw......

REMATCH!!!!!


SF4 is pretty good and takes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more skill than i ever used to give it credit for

 

[Zero_Gamer]

lol, Doc boards are the only one's I've lurked that talk about Street Fighter IV...

Anyway, I've stepped out from the shadows to ask for some advice on the Peach matchup. How do I kill her? Far too often, I find her surviving to 150+% and jab/dash attack/Dthrow just aren't working for me in this matchup.

Also, what does Otg stand for, Otg?

 

[Dogysamich]

The difference between wavedash to fsmash and shielddrop to fsmash is one frame...

Um, this game is crazy enough to have 1 frame attacks. I hope you realize that. >.>

The links in it are pretty easy. Beating bad players is easy (something I like), but even when I fought good players, it came down to whether or not I messed up on spacing, not whether I read them right or not (something I didn't like). I dunno, maybe it's because I play Chun Li, but it felt like I was always fighting the character, not the player.Zone with kikou+j. suhk/s.fp/s.mp/cr.hk/etc, unless they don't have an upper. Then I can "rush down". My very first SF4 tournament, I took one of CO's top 3 players to last match both times, last round once, and lost because I got greedy and tried to do an ultra instead of stickin' with good ol' EX legs.

Yeah, playing chun has a huge part to do about it. Chun doesnt have anything that's technically hard, not even flash (unless im mistaken). No 1framelinks, or crazy cancels of any kind. She really DOES just play matchups, which isnt so bad as long as you have a solid strat and dont run into something like rufus, something that loves the air and your AA game is :/

But yeah, them EX legs? :3

Its speed isn't what bothers me. I mean, it does a little, but I can't expect every game to be GG, can I? It's how stagnant every match feels. Don't get me wrong, watching people play at high levels is fun. Really good footsies turn me on. Buuuuuuuut it still feels like they're fighting the character, not the player. Again, could just be that Chun Li is just a boring character, but yeah.

I just had to check on the speed thing, cause that's the most hilarious, ignorant *** claim alot of melee players try to make.

And yeah, I could blast off and say chun is a boring character, by nature she is. The fun from those kinds of matches doesnt come from how fast a character gets wrecked as opposed to strategically how they get picked apart. But yeah, when you have 2 people who are willing to sit there and do absolutely nothing but turtle, then yeah it's boring. (Insert "I hate watching Steve Harrison" comments here)

It is the SF equivalent of Brawl. I honestly think SF players should just stick with ST or HDR. I love those games becaue of how do-or-die they are. Yeah, there are some REALLY gay things in ST, but at least it doesn't take 10000 years for you to kill someone via tiger zoning or o.ken fireball traps/spam. Even then, comebacks are possible not because of the ******** Ultra crap, but because you can buckle down and rip their life apart via tick throws and nasty xups. I really hate that SFIV rewards you for getting your *** beat, esp in the Chun v Rufus match-up. I can be on point the whole match and lose because LOLCOMBOINTOULTRAFORHUGEDAMAGE! at one point.

True, there really is no argument against that. The only thing I can really say is ~~
"You should note how ALL fighting games are going that route.
-Brawl came out, and although the series as a whole is not meant to be a competitive fighter, it is easier accessible than previous games
-Same for SF4,
-Same for BB compared to the GG series.
-Same for T6."

The only reason people play SFIV is because of fanboism. Seriously, if SNK or Aksys (mainly Aksys) produced something as boring and stagnant as SFIV, you can bet that the Capcom jockhuggers would be trashin' on it all day long, and it'd be lucky as hell to make it to Evo.

The problem with that is SNK and Aksys really have NO backing in America already (which is real sad, considering they both make **** good games). All you say is true and has already happened, note that KoF like, NEVER makes it to evo, and i'm having a hard time believing that whatever version of blazblue is out will be there.

SFIV is a spectator sport, I feel. Fun to watch the top players lock horns, but not all that fun (for me) to play. Rather just play ST/HDR/3s/presumably Alpha/VS/pretty much any CapCom game. Hell, I'd rather deal with Cable vs Jill than play SFIV again.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean ****, I personally love playing GGAC, MBAA, SFA2, and some few other super random *** games (Pocket Fighter lol). But regardless, I still dont see sf4 being THAT bad.

I mean, no matter how dumb a ryu srk -> fadc -> ultra is, you're not going to trip into it.

________________________

Onto the doc posts

Usmash is sexy cause of its stupid trajectory while opponents are on the ground. I had this super broken idea that I pitched to dogy while I was at work the other day, but yeah ti doesn't work. If it did though, holy ****, doc would move up the tier list so fast.

Doc's usmash combos into itself, grabs, finishers. It's really good + invincibility frames? Sex. Also, recently I've found if you can connect a dash attack on FFers you get a free fsmash if they don't tech. pretty sexy stuff.

I told you, you CAN tech chase with upsmash, resets to upsmash, all that. I've been doing it for a long time and I know i've mentioned it. I guess if it's been in a video nobody has noticed it, but I tech chase with u.smash alot.

As for dash attack, if you ever land one, you can do all sorts of stuff beyond just an f.smash. Grabs are the first thing that comes to mind.

unfortunately upsmash has a lot of ending lag
otherwise i'd be like sheik's dsmash

Stand behind people and do it. Cape people backwards. There are plenty of ways to set it up.

The removal of Stadium is kinda weird, but once again doesn't really affect doc negatively or positively.

Hint hint, nudge nudge, get used to stadium being CP. Heck, I'll even throw the idea of get used to stadium not being around period. It could happen.

And going even further, we/you guys might want to consider talking about stage strikes for matchups, as that could-somehow-quite-possibly-maybe-nineteen-fourty-too gain more ground and become more widespread if not the norm.

___

But to answer ih's question, since he's not worth me quoting (YEAAAAAAAAH MAN!), it's like otg said, stadium being put on neutral really only matters from doc to doc.

I personally dont like it because stadium is one of my better stages against everybody. I look at it like this, when I see Fox, I've never thought about banning PS, it always has been and probably always will be YS (because I do well on corneria), but now, when I see Marth, I still have to ban YS, and I'm going to 50/50 good/bad stages, and that's assuming I get left with FD (which more often than not gets banned)

*
I could go into some thoughts about PS and all, but eh, I'll save it for another post.

__________________________

Edit: I take too long to post so people post after me

lol, Doc boards are the only one's I've lurked that talk about Street Fighter IV...

Anyway, I've stepped out from the shadows to ask for some advice on the Peach matchup. How do I kill her? Far too often, I find her surviving to 150+% and jab/dash attack/Dthrow just aren't working for me in this matchup.

Also, what does Otg stand for, Otg?

1) It's mostly my fault for talking about other games all the time.

2) Landing any kind of fair or f.smash at like 90%+ is what you're looking for. If you have a low ceiling, F.air works wonders, especially since 95% of the smash community doesnt know how to DI f.air (it's even funnier when you tell them and they refuse to believe it. XD)

But yeah, d.throw -> f.air 'round 90%. Goes up to..... *rolls eyes* i honestly forget, like, 105ish or something? Im too lazy to open the doc. for it.

If you can ever catch her in the air, u.smash is great too (kinda funny since we were talking about it). Upsmash has some decent killing power, the problem is the double-standard bull **** for it. They HAVE to be in the air for you to realistically kill with it.

Beyond that, you're just looking for an edgeguard, which isnt exactly TOO much to ask as long as you're not sending her off the stage with f.air (which she will DI up and then go out of your range.)

 

[ChivalRuse]

His head is invincible during the attack (When the hitboxes are out) On frames 9-11, not before.

I knew that upsmash was broken. That's the only move I use as Doc lol.

 

[HiIH]

But To Answer Ih's Question, Since He's Not Worth Me Quoting (yeaaaaaaaah Man!), It's Like Otg Said, Stadium Being Put On Neutral Really Only Matters From Doc To Doc.

Naw It's Fine, See You Saturday And Sunday.

>= |

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Usmash is sexy cause of its stupid trajectory while opponents are on the ground. I had this super broken idea that I pitched to dogy while I was at work the other day, but yeah ti doesn't work. If it did though, holy ****, doc would move up the tier list so fast.

Doc's usmash combos into itself, grabs, finishers. It's really good + invincibility frames? Sex. Also, recently I've found if you can connect a dash attack on FFers you get a free fsmash if they don't tech. pretty sexy stuff.

Didn't know you could get a grab off of it. Niiiiiiice. I normally just usmash again and start chasing with uairs.

Off dash attack, you can rule the world.

Hahaha. I wonder, sf4 is for xbox 360 rite? I like how I just got one two days ago. I am hyped. : D

Get BB. I need to play other smashers. People don't realize that it's pretty much melee. =(

Pound 4 ruleset is w'e for Doc. All it does is remove some of the gay counterpicks that gay characters have at there disposal to gay characters worse then them. Doc doesn't really have any particular good or bad neutrals (though Dreamland or FD could be argued as his best), so this doesn't affect him either way. The removal of Stadium is kinda weird, but once again doesn't really affect doc negatively or positively.

Okay, why exactly is Dreamland good for Doc? I liked it for a little bit, until people started DIing. Then it becomes "how the hell do I kill" for like... a billion percent. I guess I could go for gimps more, but CO is pretty good about knowing when someone wants a gimp, and just completely avoiding the edge.

SF4 is pretty good and takes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more skill than i ever used to give it credit for

I won't say it doesn't take skill. It just feels too set in stone for me. I like being able to do random BS to get in on someone. SFIV makes it a bit hard. =(

Anyway, I've stepped out from the shadows to ask for some advice on the Peach matchup. How do I kill her? Far too often, I find her surviving to 150+% and jab/dash attack/Dthrow just aren't working for me in this matchup.

Also, what does Otg stand for, Otg?

jab>dsmash is a great way to kill most anyone.

Just bair and pill forever. I'm not even joking. Fighting that style of doc is REALLY annoying as Peach, esp if you waveland your bairs and run away constantly. Almost lost to a Doc waaaay back in the day @ OC3 that did nothing but bair and spam fsmash.

But then I remembered that I'm good, and FCed combos for years, son.

Still was annoying.

People don't seem to realize that you can just camp Peach. It doesn't matter how good she is, just don't approach, and don't get in FC or turnip>float>fc distances, and you'll be good. Watching Armada gave me hope, but then I tried his whole "beat them to the punch" thing and got camped even harder. Is no good. =(

She can wreck **** if she gets in, but you should have a good 50% lead before the first time she makes contact, if your projectile/pokes are worth anything. Treat her like Gief/Potemkin, I'm srsly.

Also, otg normally stands for "off the ground", but he could be a weirdo and have it mean something else.

stuff. lots and lots of stuff.

I'm not even gonna try to multi-quote you anymore. That **** coloured font of yours ruins everything. D:<

Can you PM/email me the doc .doc? I'd like to know the percents a little better.

Yeah, Chun's only cool things come from stomp mix-ups on tall characters. Aside from that, she's super boring. =(

Also, lack of AA makes her hard to play as, but I've been playing characters without AAs since the dawn of time, so I'm used to letting people jump in and blocking ******** mix-ups.

That song is purdy dope. Was better like... 30 years ago, tho.

I kinda assume Melee players don't know how to play traditional fighters unless:

1) They're my age or older.
2) They live in the South.
3) Lolidunno, they have a non-anime avatar?

I like zoning, don't get me wrong. I messed around with Sim for a while just because of how much fun his zoning looks. Buuuuut when I'm doing the same patterns repeatedly because it's just the best option (kikou>s.hp vs rog, unless he's close enough to headbutt, then s.mp/cr.lk/mk all day), it goes from being intellectually stimulating to a Grade A Snoozefest.

Snooze is a really weird word, btw. Wtf?

I'm okay with turtling, but only if there are reasons other than "BEST OPTION OMG". I like being creative with my zoning/approaches/pressure. ESPECIALLY pressure, which SFIV lacks. There's a lot of space control, and decent lockdown, but I LOVE mix-ups too much. It's why I play Carl/Zappa. ******** mix-ups that no one really practices fighting against. Same basic thing with Doc. He has decent zoning that you can be really creative with, but can get in and do some dirty things off of jab shenanigans, downb (don't laugh, it's dodged soooo many tippers and knocked them off stage), pill waveland tricks, and everything else ever. He can poke really well with wd ftilt, too.

I understand making execution a little easier, and I even agree with it. I don't have a lot of time nowadays to practice, so I'm grateful for 4 frame buffers and intuitive controls. I just hate when the metagame stagnates because of one or two REALLY REALLY GOOD tactics. It's like if CCing worked at 100% reliably. I like CC counters when I have the stock lead. It's nice having each life be played differently based on percent, location, character, and a billion other things. You'll never see a CF worth anything come barreling in vs my Peach because her usmash beats everything he can throw, and leads into so many options that it's not even funny.

Likewise, you won't see my Peach spamming usmash because, if he baits it, ggs. I can't always CC, and he can't always do anything. I like it when both players have to be sneaky to get **** done.

And yet, for some reason, I love playing as Sheik. Hmm... Prolly cuz she has ******** options off everything.

Evo's kinda been bugging me for a while, now. Seems like a SF old boys' club. KoF really should get more love, same with some of the really good anime fighters. Yeah yeah, weeaboos blah blah, buuuuuuut GG is great, BB is pretty good, and F:UC is one of the most technical and interesting fighters ever, to me, but gets zero love. =(

Consistency is good, but I really do love being given creative options. It's what I excel at, ya know? I don't know of very many other players that will run straight at a Mario and stop right before the trajectory for his fireball just to duck the bounce, wd in and nail 'em with a fireball. Granted, it isn't super flashy or damaging, buuuuuut I like the little things, ya know?
---
ACTUAL DOC STUFF!

Soooooo, has anyone been doing nair (land) rising uair stuff? I've been noticing that it works pretty well at low percents (esp if they try to shieldgrab), and really well at higher percents, cuz most people don't tech nair if it knocks down. Anyone else do random crap like this?
---

This concludes another Izzy megapost.

 

[Dogysamich]

Naw It's Fine, See You Saturday And Sunday.

>= |

Saturday AND sunday? Hope you guys find housing, cause I know how albany goes. XD

Okay, why exactly is Dreamland good for Doc? I liked it for a little bit, until people started DIing. Then it becomes "how the hell do I kill" for like... a billion percent. I guess I could go for gimps more, but CO is pretty good about knowing when someone wants a gimp, and just completely avoiding the edge.

I dont think it's great, but it does have a few perks going for it. Like, being able to chaingrab more and longer than any other neutral, save FD. (And save rolling the dice on FoD).

It's more of a "it's not bad" for doc as opposed to it "it's good".

I'm not even gonna try to multi-quote you anymore. That **** coloured font of yours ruins everything. D:<

-FLEX-
YAYHUZZ

I kinda assume Melee players don't know how to play traditional fighters unless:

1) They're my age or older.
2) They live in the South.
3) Lolidunno, they have a non-anime avatar?

Yeah, most of us in ATL South (read: the Literal ATL South, not what we consider FL, which is CFL and SFL) play alot of games to some degree. Most fighting game tourneys around here include melee because of us.

Infact, we're the reason that Final Round continues to have melee. AND EVEN THEN, when Shin Blanka talked about dropping smash all together, we had him leaning towards dropping brawl and keeping melee.

That's just how we work in the south.

I like zoning, don't get me wrong. I messed around with Sim for a while just because of how much fun his zoning looks. Buuuuut when I'm doing the same patterns repeatedly because it's just the best option (kikou>s.hp vs rog, unless he's close enough to headbutt, then s.mp/cr.lk/mk all day), it goes from being intellectually stimulating to a Grade A Snoozefest.

Snooze is a really weird word, btw. Wtf?

It sounds like the problem is you play people who do/fall into the exact same setups everytime, and dont know how to change strats on the fly.

I'm okay with turtling, but only if there are reasons other than "BEST OPTION OMG". I like being creative with my zoning/approaches/pressure. ESPECIALLY pressure, which SFIV lacks. There's a lot of space control, and decent lockdown, but I LOVE mix-ups too much. It's why I play Carl/Zappa. ******** mix-ups that no one really practices fighting against. Same basic thing with Doc. He has decent zoning that you can be really creative with, but can get in and do some dirty things off of jab shenanigans, downb (don't laugh, it's dodged soooo many tippers and knocked them off stage), pill waveland tricks, and everything else ever. He can poke really well with wd ftilt, too.

I have absolutely
no clue what you're talking about
when you say the game lacks pressure. -Insert a link of Marn's Viper here-

___

Actually, no, you said LACK pressure, i can believe that. But dont be mislead to think that there's like, NO rushdown pressure in the game. I mean, i know you know it, but alot of people try to make SF, especially SF4 out to be nothing but a huge pokefest.

It's not Samurai Showdown. XD

Evo's kinda been bugging me for a while, now. Seems like a SF old boys' club. KoF really should get more love, same with some of the really good anime fighters. Yeah yeah, weeaboos blah blah, buuuuuuut GG is great, BB is pretty good, and F:UC is one of the most technical and interesting fighters ever, to me, but gets zero love. =(

*If I am talking out my *** about this, please call me out.*

Kof has been goin downhill lately as a series, which is the problem. Most diehard KoF players that I know (dark geese included) prefer the older versions as opposed to the newer stuff that's come out. KoFXI was worthwhile, but XII for example, I've yet to hear of anybody who really likes it.

GG was at evo, and it was taken very well. Whether it be because Marn was playing it or because GG is actually a good game, it was taken well.

I'll be a maa ****ing sky pirate longer than I am a doctor.

BB on the other hand? I just cant see it being at evo next year unless Continum Shift gets that super balance. Which is possible.

But i mean, even SC4 was welcomed at evo, and the ****ing SC community absolutely hates that game to all ends of the earth. Everybody was happy to see Hilde not dominating everybody (Which I am sad for only because my homie RTD was there), but people got to see that SC4 is not just a CF, ringout fest with doom combos like everybody makes it out to be. And on top of that, EVO ALLOWED algol and I dont think there was one in the state when evo went on.

As for other stuff, the problem with that is just lack of accessibility and lack of following. I guarentee that if MBAA was released in america, it'd make it to evo, even if it was just the opener. I could say that about a few other games too.

Consistency is good, but I really do love being given creative options. It's what I excel at, ya know? I don't know of very many other players that will run straight at a Mario and stop right before the trajectory for his fireball just to duck the bounce, wd in and nail 'em with a fireball. Granted, it isn't super flashy or damaging, buuuuuut I like the little things, ya know?

You can be creative with consistency, look at GG. The problem with smash is that something as simple as blocking doesnt work everytime you press the block button for whatever reason.

---
ACTUAL DOC STUFF!

Soooooo, has anyone been doing nair (land) rising uair stuff? I've been noticing that it works pretty well at low percents (esp if they try to shieldgrab), and really well at higher percents, cuz most people don't tech nair if it knocks down. Anyone else do random crap like this?
.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

There are one frame attacks, but the point is that one frame in comparison to sixteen really isn't that much.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Oy, Interim, I have an anime avatar with big breasts, but I also play Street Fighter IV and Blazblue.

And there is definitely pressure in SF IV - although it feels rather slow and painful - like Sagat's insane frame advantage shenanigans, Cammy's really good mixup game on knockdown, crossups, etc. I'm a Cammy main (Blanka/Sagat secondaries) and pressure is all she has. It's definately a lot of fun placing that pressure on the opponent, but it's pretty tough to get that knockdown if the opponent knows what he's doing, especially if he's one of the Terrible Four (Balrog, Zangief, Guile, E. Honda).



KOF XII is regarded as a joke game or just a beta for lucky number XIII in the KOF community. No story whatsoever, TERRIBLE online system, and character changes are way dumb. Like, every character is missing virtually half of whatever moveset they had in previous games. Terry Bogard can't even do his "Aye yuu okai?" and Buster Wolf shenanigans. It's essentially an incomplete game with a full price tag.

 

[ChivalRuse]

SC4 is fun. I like the SC series.

 

[Vulcan55]

I wish throws were different in BB.
I'd like the game a whole lot more.
Like, Command throws shouldn't be escapable, and normal throws only should be during combos (Otherwise Jin (And I'm sure a few more people) would have an infinite). And maybe add an SF4-style grab break, where you have to do it in anticipation rather than reaction (Both grab each other, that is. Not during hitstun/blockstun).

 

[Scar]

shroomed lol double or nothing so $10 this time

pound 4

 

[InterimOfZeal]

stuufff

Okay, good, I won't be CPing on DL64, then.

I like people that play games in the South, but I really really HATE Atlanta. Pretty-ish place (CO>>>GA), but outside the gaming community, it's a crappy town where everyone moves super slow and is fairly rude.

No joke, we went to Waffle House, my friend ordered chocolate milk, and they took so long the milk curdled. True story.

Good grits, tho.

I was oversimplifying for the zoning tactics in SFIV. You have to change it, ya, but you can generally alternate between 2-3 patterns and wreck shop b/c it's really hard for some characters to get in. Again, I never played it OoS, so it could just be that CO was balls at SFIV when I played with them. I didn't win tournaments, mind you, but I did retardedly well against good players, and was generally bored. Again, might be because Chun is kinda boring.

The pressure in it leaves a lot for me to want. Like, vs most SFIV pressure, you just have to keep your cool, watch for something, and backdash/absorb the hit. Granted, vs Abel/people who use armor breaks or grabs in pressure, absorbing isn't the best idea. Buuuuut, you still have a lot of opportunities to back away.

It's not a massive pokefest (lol SamSho). Hell, I think that there's considerably more poking in 3s (b/c whiffed whatever is better than standing there, not gaining meter). Still, the pressure isn't as insane as, say, Dizzy's bullcrap, or Eddie's pressure (which I honestly enjoy blocking, wtf?), or even Zappa's ghostspam xups. It's pressure, sure enough, but not the style I like.

I agree that KoF 98 UM is prolly the most enjoyable KoF game, and that the series has been going downhill. Buuuuuut, it's notsomuch what games are present @ Evo, as much as how they treat the players that are non-SF. The fact that Evo was threatening to pull support on FRXII if they had smash is enough to rub me the wrong way.

GG was at Evo because GG players showed up anyway and had the tournament, wasn't it? GG wasn't on the official line-up, if I recall correctly.

We need to play GG @ FR. I'll get my Zappa back in shape. :D

I could see BB making a showing just because of the numbers it pulls.

I dunno, though, I could be completely wrong with Evo. Just that my readings about them/discussions with people normally put them in a very bad light.

I know you can be creative+have consistency. I was just saying that, for the most part, SFIV is very flowchart/textbook. Obviously I'm making a VERY gross generalization that doesn't always apply to high level play, buuuuut that's just how I feel when I play it. I feel suffocated.

As for shielding in Melee, you have to know how to angle yo' shield, sooooooon.

Oy, Interim, I have an anime avatar with big breasts, but I also play Street Fighter IV and Blazblue.

And there is definitely pressure in SF IV - although it feels rather slow and painful - like Sagat's insane frame advantage shenanigans, Cammy's really good mixup game on knockdown, crossups, etc. I'm a Cammy main (Blanka/Sagat secondaries) and pressure is all she has. It's definately a lot of fun placing that pressure on the opponent, but it's pretty tough to get that knockdown if the opponent knows what he's doing, especially if he's one of the Terrible Four (Balrog, Zangief, Guile, E. Honda).



KOF XII is regarded as a joke game or just a beta for lucky number XIII in the KOF community. No story whatsoever, TERRIBLE online system, and character changes are way dumb. Like, every character is missing virtually half of whatever moveset they had in previous games. Terry Bogard can't even do his "Aye yuu okai?" and Buster Wolf shenanigans. It's essentially an incomplete game with a full price tag.

I'm not saying your avatar= you not playing. Just that I don't expect you to play well. Hell, if smash weren't such an intuitive series, I'd assume anyone that has a non-pokemon anime avatar was balls at it, too. Obviously it isn't always true, buuuuuuut I haven't really lost to anyone from SWF in a 2df if they have an anime avatar, so yeah. That's my bit of prejudice. I'm kinda turned off by weeaboos, despite ( or perhaps, because I am ) minoring in Japanese. Everything about them rubs me wrong. Don't get me wrong, though! If you're good and you're cool, I'm cool with ya. Just that so many anime nerds play like... 30 games, and suck at every single one. Worse still is that they just won't shut up once they get started.

Honestly, I think that if you wanna play KoF, you should just play CvS2. That game is too cool.

I wish throws were different in BB.
I'd like the game a whole lot more.
Like, Command throws shouldn't be escapable, and normal throws only should be during combos (Otherwise Jin (And I'm sure a few more people) would have an infinite). And maybe add an SF4-style grab break, where you have to do it in anticipation rather than reaction (Both grab each other, that is. Not during hitstun/blockstun).

EDIT: I agree that command throws shouldn't be escapable (unless combo'ed into). They're pretty much fixing that in CS. I think that, like GG, normal throws should be breakable. The little exclamation marks are incredibly helpful. You're told where you ****ed up, without even having to ask.

Problem with SF-style grab breaks is you can mash grab break all day. In ST, I'm pretty sure it was common practice to option select everything ever. SFIV did it right, I think, where it is easy to bait breaks and punish.

I'm okay with the grab system in BB. Grabs are ******** rewarding. They shouldn't be easy to land.

 

[Vulcan55]

BB Grabs suck. You are given plenty of time to break (On reaction, not anticipation) plus the "combo'd into" grabs (Purple) Offer twice the length of time in which to break out. A competent player (Not online) should always break out of the grab, and grabs are then useless. Plus, an SF4 style grab break teaches you to watch out for when grabs are coming, not once they happen. Plus, the grab break command is the same as grab, so mashing grab break, will have you throwing out grabs (in anticipation). Plus, you already can't mash grab break to break out, and you still wouldn't with and SF4-styled system.
Also, I don't know exact combos for Tager, so how would people not being able to break out of his command throws (at all) affect him?

 

[otg]

For whoever asked, my name stands for w'e you want it to mean. I didn't know that otg was a fighting game term back when I made up this tag (probably like 05 or 06), I got it from a TOOL song, but now people just make up **** when they see my tag, like:

otgay, origional too gangster, etc.

Recently I go by get$$$$$$$ (not to be confused with gmoney)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ahh tega

 

[otg]

ahh tega

Another personal favorite.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

BB Grabs suck. You are given plenty of time to break (On reaction, not anticipation) plus the "combo'd into" grabs (Purple) Offer twice the length of time in which to break out. A competent player (Not online) should always break out of the grab, and grabs are then useless. Plus, an SF4 style grab break teaches you to watch out for when grabs are coming, not once they happen. Plus, the grab break command is the same as grab, so mashing grab break, will have you throwing out grabs (in anticipation). Plus, you already can't mash grab break to break out, and you still wouldn't with and SF4-styled system.
Also, I don't know exact combos for Tager, so how would people not being able to break out of his command throws (at all) affect him?

Most overheads are ALSO 8 frames or more. A competant player should be able to, on reaction, block EVERYTHING. If fighting Jin, a competant player should always IB the 5c and punish any potential follow-up.

BUT

You have to look for so many things. Lows, overheads, xups, grabs, and a combination of the above. A competant player is able to get green grabs. As Carl, off of 2a, I can do:

1) 5a>any of the below options
2) Green grab
3) 2b (low, 0 disadvantage, leads into 6b or resets, or 3c, both of which can be special canceled)
4) Roll (dunno why you'd do it, though)
5) instant j.2c allecan reset
6) IAD j.2c allecan reset
7) summon iad j.2c allecan reset (sandwiches opponent, leads into)
8) Unblockable (100% meter is the easiest variation, very consistent)
9) 5a, 5b (leads into above options, menos 2b)
10) 5a, 5b, 5c>whatever pressure string I feel like to reset the situation
11) 5a, 5b, 5c, Nirvana command throw (will be purple, so they WILL tech)>green grab or whatever else I want

And that's just a few of the options available to me, that I've discovered. Last one is more of a novelty, but it can and has worked. People are so focused on teching the grab that they get nailed by something else.

Yeah, there's an 8 frame tech window. Purple grabs are 48 frames. Buuuuuuut with green grabs, the trick is to not be a tool and abuse them. You get half-life combos off them for a reason. You have to be sneaky and not use them predictably. I've nailed GOOD players with it (CA Carl player, some of CO's top players), all IRL. You probably just grab predictably/fight people that are bad and do it wrong. You can reaction tech it, but only if you're looking for it. 8 frames is HUUUGE when you're looking for one thing, but when you're looking for 10+ things at any given time in a situation, it's impossible to see everything. I option select my first two blocks (ab~bc), but block regular after that. I've had people RC moves with very little hitstun late in a pressure string, only to grab. I eat it, because I expect them to do a pressure reset and look for where I can vivace/backdash/whatever.

If you couldn't break out of command throws EVER, Tager could hit you with any move that puts you in huge blockstun and 360 until your life was over. In block or hitstun, command throws should have purple tech windows, same as everything else.

EDIT:

Oh, and with SFIV, you can option select your grabs, too. Learn the timings of normal pressure strings, and press grab at the timing where you'd be partway in blockstun or getting tick throw. Voila, you've just learned how to block AND break grabs at the same time. Really good players ~might~ drop their pressure, but you can normally reaction whatever if that's the case. Generalization, but yeah, l2p.

DOGY! WE SHOULD PLAY GEM FIGHTER ON 2DF!